When Do We Experience the New Heavens and the New Earth?

Hi M____,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, and thank you for your questions.
This e- mail is very provocative, and it provides an overview of our entire experience, first as “the first Adam”, on this earth, then as the “the last Adam… seated with Christ in the heavens… in earnest” or in down payment “of the purchased possession” (Eph 1:14), which is the “end of our faith, the salvation of our souls”.
I will comment after each paragraph, and I hope this will confirm for you with a few more verses of scripture, the validity of your conclusion.

Mike,

Thanks again for the exchange… it is always edifying and encouraging.

On another note – I was reading Mat 5 (see below) and I believe I ‘saw’ something in the Mat 5:18 (see underlined words) that I had not seen before. Again, I would appreciate any feedback you may have.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [ them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

“Till heaven and earth pass away…”

We know from Revelation ‘there is a new heaven and a new earth’… we also know ‘earth’ is a type of us (Jer 22:29 ‘Earth, earth, here the Words of the Lord’) and heaven is the opposite of earth and means the highest realm of the spirit and is also where God’s throne is – in the hearts and minds of His Elect – heaven). We know that we are under tutors and governors (i. e. The Law which is NOT made for the righteous, but its function is to bring us to Christ) UNTIL faith comes… at that point we are bound to a spiritual law (the new covenant, differing and better than the old). At this point we also receive the Spirit of God, in earnest, which causes us to ‘die daily’ and begin to mature in Christ until (future from this point in our spiritual progression) we receive our purchased possession (a spiritual body). So, in earnest of the spirit, from an is, was and will be perspective, this (i. e. heaven and earth is passing away as I am being made a new creature in Christ, old things are passing away – like the old heavens of my heart and mind and my old earth, “dying daily”) is being fulfilled, even now (in earnest) in my own life. So, ..”till heaven and earth pass away” is ‘will be’ for many (all) yet it is even now, according to the appointed time of the Father, to a few.

Comment:
That is exactly right. The “new heavens and new earth” of Old Testament prophecies are ours in down payment form even now, if indeed Christ, “the hope of glory” is living His resurrected life in us. If Christ is in us, then these verses are spiritually true at this very moment:

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

You and I are “the earth” (Jer 22:29), and you and I are, in Christ the “little child” who is teachable. We are now that “offering unto the Lord” (Rom 12:1). Here is what the New Testament scriptures teach concerning who we now are:

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

If Christ is in us, we are then “seated with Him in the heavens” and are “walking in the spirit” here on earth, just as Christ did when He was in an earthen vessel on this earth:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [ places] in Christ Jesus:

Those who are granted this honor in this age must still “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”, including these words of Peter:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

If we do not suffer the loss of our works now, we will do so later, and doing so later in the “great white throne judgment… the lake of fire” is what we want to avoid at all cost, even the cost of our old heavens and our old earth. What we want is to see all of our own works burned out of us in this age, not in the next age.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

“Suffering the loss” of our own works is exactly what we must all experience, in our own appointed time. Let us beg God that this life be our appointed time. Whether we “lose our lives” now or later, we must lose our lives before any of us will find life:

Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

End of comment.

To summarize the personal application of this scripture. The law (of Moses) is NOT made for a righteous man (1Ti 1:9) it is made for an unrighteous man (i. e. me). It is my tutor to bring me to Christ, so until Christ comes to me personally, I am under the law (every jot and tittle will be fulfilled in my life – I will live by every word…) but when Christ comes to me by His Spirit and destroys the beast with the brightness of His coming, I am no longer under an inferior tutor but under a better and more challenging spiritual law (given newness of life) and will be given the ability to live by it – because it is Christ in me that is doing it. As my old man dies, and I ‘put on the new man’ (Christ in me, the hope of glory) and live by the faith of Christ, in effect the old heaven and the old earth has passed away (or is passing away through this spiritually maturing process… it will actually pass away when every jot and tittle… every word that proceeds from God… has been fulfilled in me..). Each person in each generation will live out this pattern (heaven and earth passing away) at the appointed time of the father. Am I rightly dividing the word here and using a pattern of sound words?

Comment:
You say:

“… The old heaven and the old earth has passed away (or is passing away through this spiritually maturing process… it will actually pass away when every jot and tittle… every word that proceeds from God… has been fulfilled in me…)”.

I am so pleased that you see that this is a process that continues throughout this life, because that is what Christ taught, and that is what He experienced:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

End Comment

If we endure till the end, we will be saved. What is the end? Is it the end of our life in this aion (our last breath)? Or is it the end of our old man/ sin dominating our life… is the end when all has been fulfilled (see Mat 24) in our life— when the old heavens/ earth has passed away – is that the end discussed around our salvation? I know we will battle this flesh (and the sin in its members) until it is shed and we are given a new spiritual body, but is the Scripture’… If we endure till the ‘end’ we will be saved’ talking about enduring to the end of sin dominating our life? Just a thought.

Comments/ feedback?

Blessings,

M____

Comment:

It is definitely both considering the life of our Lord. We endure as we “die daily” (1Co 15:31), and we endure as we are “crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:20). If it is given to us to do so we, learn with the apostles, to “rejoice in our sufferings… to the end”. The death of Christ demonstrates for us that the seven last plagues are upon our flesh, which cries out “Father isn’t there some other way?” It is when we are given to “rejoice in our suffering” that we too can say “Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done”.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

We have all been taught that Christ died for us so we would not have to die. Paul, and all of God’s Word, teaches us that phrases like “through the blood of His cross… through death”, should be viewed as “In the body of His flesh” being “rejoicing in [ our own] suffering… for His body the church… filling up that which is behind of the sufferings of The Christ”, because Christ is not complete without us, and we are certainly not complete without Him.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us- ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [ him] at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

It is “the church which is His body which is the fulness of Christ, and it is Christ which fills His Father. “Christ’s inheritance is [ only] in His saints”.
I pray it is given to all of us to endure with our Lord “in the body of His flesh” which we are, to fill up what is behind of the afflictions of the Christ… to the [ very] end”.
I hope I have answered that question for you. If it is still unclear, please let me know.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [ In our flesh “filling up what is behind of the afflictions of the Christ”]
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It is “that spirit of antichrist” which teaches that Christ died for us so we don’t have to die”. That is the spirit which dominates the orthodox Christian church, and that is the spirit we are given to resist and overcome.
Your brother in the Christ,
Mike