Initial Email Exchange Explaining Split

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———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Mike Vinson<vinsmike@ gmail. com>
Date: Jun 5, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: . Did Mike Decide To Go His Own Way (And) Take A Hike?”
To: E____ <ezek_______. com

Hi B____, 
Thank you for your question and thank you especially for your fidelity to the word of God. Of course, that is but a gift which God has given to you, but I am thankful that he has done so.
I wish that I could clear this up for you, but I was just sitting here in Flowery Branch, Georgia answering e- mails as I have been doing since 1997, when just two days before the Marshall, Michigan conference, I get this e- mail from Ray informing me that he “cannot allow me to teach the book of Revelation as you have promised in your announcement.”
Now, Ray and I have never bothered with e- mails. It was God’s own hand which had Ray to write me instead of calling as he has always done. So now there is a thread which cannot be denied. Ray is now denying that he ever taught that we are to keep the entire book of Revelation. But this too is undeniable since it is on DVDs of the Nashville conference.
Again it was divine providence which had Deedle Lacour (aionios. com) working on posting the Nashville conference when Ray called and spent over two hours on the phone with Deedle attempting to get Deedle to disassociate himself from me. Deedle could not believe his ears and was very upset, as we all are, that this was happening. Ray makes a very convincing argument for God’s elect not having to keep many parts of the “sayings of the prophecies of this book” based upon Paul’s statement in 1 Thess:

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Based on this verse Ray and Lary Gupton, another beloved brother in Nashville, Tennessee, 

have decided that since “we are not appointed to wrath” the seals, trumpets and vials are not to be experienced by God’s elect.
So Deedle hung up the phone and continued to upload the Nashville conference, and lo and behold, there was Ray Smith right before Deedle’s eyes and ears teaching that God’s elect experience this entire book inwardly.
I asked Ray in a phone conversation, “If the seals trumpets and vials are not for us, what part of this book is for us?” To which He replied, “The parts which the Bible says are for us.” I then reminded Ray that we have both taught that all of the sayings of the prophecy of this book are for all of God’s elect. At that point Ray told me “I have never taught that God’s elect must go through the seven last plagues blaspheming God to the end.” So I read to Ray the announcement for the Marshall conference, which he had read when he posted it on his site. That announcement is still posted on my site for all to read. I too state categorically in  that announcement, that God’s elect do not go through the seven last plagues only because they have experienced “God’s wrath on all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” first, not last.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

That is why they are called the seven “LAST” plagues. Otherwise, if indeed God’s elect are not also “by nature the children of wrath, even as others” who experience God’s plagues “last,” then there would be no need to use the word “last” to begin with. But they are God’s seven last plagues for the very reason that God’s elect are now enduring their fiery experience and judgment:

Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others [ who will receive these plagues later or “last”].

Ray then asked me “Mike how can you say we are not appointed to wrath and at the same time say that we endure God’s wrath?” I answered Ray “I can say that in the same way Christ can say that ‘bread from heaven’ is not bread from heaven. I can say that in the same way Paul can say ‘you should not be judged’ and in the same breath state that ‘ we are judged.’ And I can say that in the same way that John can state that the beast ‘ was, is not and yet is.’

Exo 16:4  (a) Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; 
Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
1Co 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

God’s elect are in the first judgment with the first fire and the first wrath of God and the first plagues. That is why God’s elect are not hurt of the second death. That is why God’s elect are not in the lake of fire. That is why we are not “a ppointed to wrath.” But do God’s elect not experience the fire of God’s wrath and His judgments?

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

I could go on and on, but this should demonstrate that God has but one way to salvation and that one way is by His chastening scourging, fiery grace which will plague us all till we all come to true repentance for what we are. All that God does He does with a purpose and a goal in mind.
It is most instructive for those with the mind of Christ to know that Christ Himself endured God’s “wrath:”

Isa 54:7  For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8  In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

How then can Ray and Lary claim, as they both have to me: “I have never blasphemed God… I will never experience His wrath.” Lary even claims that his beast does not have seven heads. But just look at these Is, Was and Will Be verses of God’s words which “will never pass away:”

Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his [ seven] heads the name of blasphemy.

When Ray and Lary tell me that they have never blasphemed, they are making Christ out to be a liar. And it is the same with these Is, Was and Will Be, words of our Lord:

Rev 15:8  And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Are Ray and Lary not in the temple?

Luk 19:22  (a) And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee…

This is not a small matter as some want it to be. This is a matter of heresy, and heresy is a matter of life and death.
I will close with a verse which is undoubtedly one of the most hated verses in all of God’s Word. But all who hate and ignore this verse of God’s Word for fear of appearing “unloving and judgmental” by their brothers in Christ, do so at their own peril:

Tit 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Ray has indeed taught many wonderful truths. but unless he repents of what he is presently teaching, the light which he has had in the past has now become darkness:

Mat 6:23  But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The “fire from heaven” is the word of God. The Adversary is aware that most will not be able to separate themselves from a man who has been used to do so many good works.

Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name ha ve cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

But fire from heaven and many wonderful works are not what distinguish God’s elect from the many called.  We are not told to “try their works.” Here is what we are told to do at a time such as this: :

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn 4:8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

So a false prophet is known by whether he is teaching the “doctrine of Christ.”

2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [ spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

But he is also known by his fruits:

Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Ray has taken it upon himself to tell me that “Mike, Satan has a hold on you.” He has spent many hours on the phone in his efforts to discredit and destroy iswasandwillbe. com. I have said nothing like that to Ray or about Ray in hopes that this could be resolved in private. I am now unable to continue my silence in view of the accusations being made behind my back about “Mike has decided to go his own way. If you want to know why then ask him why he has decided to take a hike.”
I cannot tell you how it pains me to have to write this to you about men I love and respected so much just yesterday. But like Christ and like David I am being turned on by my closest associates:

Psa 55:12  For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:
Psa 55:13  But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.
Psa 55:14  We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.

Characterizing what has happened as “ask Mike why he decided to take a hike” is a blatant lie that I cannot ignore. Mike Vinson has gone nowhere. Mike Vinson did not “decide to go his own way.” Mike Vinson is still being faithful to the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
As much as it pains me to have to do so, I must point to the scripture which is applicable in this situation:

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is [2000 years ago] the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists ; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1Jn 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [ no doubt] have continued with us: but [ they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.  

How I wish that this were not the case. But I can deny it no longer.


Those who are so shaken that they cannot accept the magnitude of this change will now have to acknowledge that the change in direction, the “taking a hike” has been by Ray. And all those who just want this to all go away will be forced to decide whether they will keep the sayings of the prophecy of this book or guard against doing so.
I dearly love Ray and Lary and Dennis. If and when they repent of this heresy, I will welcome them with open arms. I would be the happiest person in the world if that could only happen.
But here are God’s Words for all who think that they can avoid keeping all of the sayings of the prophecy of this book. It pertains especially to the verses under Ray and Lary’s scrutiny in Revelation six and Revelation sixteen regarding the plagues of God’s wrath:

Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Jer 25:15  For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.

Jer 49:12  For thus saith the LORD; Behold, they whose judgment was not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and art thou he that shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink of it.
Mat 20:22  But Jesus answered [ James and John] and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
Mar 14:36  And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Luk 22:17  And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

To preach and teach that we are to “guard against keeping the sayings of the prophecy of this book,” is heresy of the highest degree. Christ Himself declares that it is He Himself who is “the first and the last.” To deny that it is incumbent upon His elect to experience “every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of God,” is to make God a liar. It is the diametric opposite of the instructions in the book which tells us how we are to come to know the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear [ all] the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Are Ray and Lary asking us to add ‘except for the wrath of God,’ after the word ‘ therein?’

And again at the end of this book:

Rev 22:6  And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Now, is this but a small matter between Ray and me, or is this really a matter of life and death?

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 22:20  He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21  The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

That, B___, is just how important it is that we all keep all the sayings of the prophecy of this book.



Letter found on Ray’s Site concerning this matter:

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