Greetings again in the name of Jesus Christ,

I am sorry to bother you again, but I have had a discussion between a friend of mine concerning Elijah and Enoch being transported and not seeing death. He feels it is just an assumption that they are not in heaven right now; that there is no concrete evidence that they did not see death. I told him interpretation, inference, assumptions may have relative truth but once they are backed with scriptures, then they become ABSOLUTE truth. The bible says no man has ascended into heaven except the son of God who came from heaven. He says “I want to remind you that when Christ said no man (physical body) ascended into heaven but the son of man who came from heaven. I believe Christ is referring to the physical body and not the spirit being.” Would you in your spare time please shed some spiritual light on this subject?

Thanks again and God continue to bless you and give you divine strength and wisdom as you continue to do His work.

It is inspirational and Spiritual food.

Peace

A____

Hi A____,

It is good to hear from you again.

The false doctrine of the immortality of either the soul or the spirit being in mankind before the resurrection is very effective in keeping the entire orthodox Christian church separated from the simple truth, “Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” These are the words of God, so one can hardly expect an apostate church to believe them. Any apostate would much rather believe the words of the Adversary, ‘the dragon, that old serpent called the Devil.’ here are the words that are believed universally in orthodox Christendom: “Ye shall not surely die…” [‘Why you aren’t just dust, like God told you, you are really an immortal spirit. Your body might die but you are not dust having a spiritual experience, you are actually spirit, having a physical experience.’

This is the argument of all orthodox Christian doctrine concerning the composition of all who are ‘in Adam.’ The fact that this flies in the face of “Dust thou art… in the day that you eat thereof dying you shall die,” is always excused by the tactic your friend is using:

I want to remind you that when Christ said no man (physical body) ascended into heaven but the son of man who came from heaven. I believe Christ is referring to the physical body and not the spirit being.

This is the very unscriptural reasoning that nullifies even the need for a resurrection. According to this man’s doctrine, David IS in heaven. What Peter was referring to was David’s body. Now let’s analyze this man’s doctrine and see what sense it makes. Peter makes the statement:

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

What is Peter’s point in making this statement? He is showing to those present that Christ is risen from the dead and David is not.

Christ is ascended to heaven, and David has not. If David is also in heaven, either in physical body or in spirit, then Peter’s argument has been gutted of any significance whatsoever, because David would be in heaven, and the resurrection would be inconsequential as to whether one received the inheritance of an immortal spiritual body. But Peter asserts that “David is NOT ascended into the heavens.” And how does Peter prove to those present that Christ is superior to David and is “ascended into the heavens” as opposed to King David, who “Is NOT ascended into the heavens?” What is Peter’s proof of this assertion?:

Act 2:29 … The patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

I would point you to 2Pe 1:20 “no… scripture is of any private interpretation.” Meaning no scripture stands alone, rather “The sum of thy word is truth,…” (Psa 119:160 ISV, LITV, RV, YLT).

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private [Greek: idios – self] interpretation.

Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.

Armed with these principles, let us look into your first question pertaining to Elijah. Despite the dramatic way in which he was transported, we are given no reason to believe that Elijah was carried up to any heaven other than that in which the birds travel. Indeed it appeared to the sons of the prophets that he must have been deposited on some mountain or into some valley. The fact that he did not leave the earth altogether is born out by the fact that he sent a letter to Jehoram in 2Ch 21:12 years after Elisha had taken up his mantle.

2Ch 21:4 Now when Jehoram had taken over the kingdom of his father [Jehoshephat and made himself secure, he killed all his brothers with the sword, and some of the rulers of Israel also.

2Ch 21:12 Then a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet saying, “Thus says the LORD God of your father David, ‘Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father and the ways of Asa king of Judah…”

Now if, as your friend asserts, David is right now sitting up in heaven in a spiritual body, what point does Peter hope to be making by pointing out that “David and his sepulcher is with us to this day?” What, pray tell, does that have to do with whether David is in heaven if David has a ‘spiritual body without the need for a resurrection?

Unlike your friend, I will not simply make an assertion. Instead I will do as he would have done had he been able; I will show you even more scriptures to show that such un-scriptural arguments turn God’s Word into a book of contradictions. For example, your friend asserts that Enoch and Elijah went to heaven with “spiritual bodies” inherent within them by virtue of having an immortal spiritual body before, and without the need for a resurrection. This is in accord with all orthodoxy, but what saith the Word of God? Does anyone have immortality without and before a resurrection? Is it really true as the Adversary told Eve, and as all orthodoxy believes: “You shall not surely die?” Here is the Truth of God’s Word:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So “it is sown a natural body,” and “it is raised a spiritual body.” But which body comes first? Did Adam and Eve, along with Enoch and Elijah and all the rest of mankind already have a spiritual body capable of ‘ascending into the heavens’ without the benefit of and before the resurrection of the dead? That is the crux of our question. I will not simply tell you what “I believe.” Here is the scriptural answer to this critical, pivotal question as to whether Adam had a spiritual body before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward [at the resurrection] that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall [in the future, at the resurrection, not ‘are presently bearing’] also bear the image of the heavenly].

This statement by the Apostle is in complete accord with all other scriptures:

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

And reiterated in Psalms:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity [corruptible dust]; and in sin [nakedness] did my mother conceive me.

And also reiterated in Ecclesiastes:

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [Hebrew: ruach – spirit]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

And again in Ecclesiastes:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

And also reiterated in Ezekiel:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But all these scriptures are in the old covenant. Do Christ and His apostles teach this same message? Has anyone ascended to heaven in any form whatever other than Christ Himself? What saith the scriptures?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

What, pray tell, is the point of this statement if spiritual bodies are not included… “but He that came down from heaven?” Are we being asked by your friend to believe that Christ had a physical body before he “came down from heaven?” No, Christ did not have a physical body before it was given to Him at His physical birth. Still He tells us “No man hath ascended to heaven, but He that came down from heaven.” Why, according to your friend, did not Christ at least say ‘Except for Enoch and Elijah who ascended to heaven in spiritual bodies?’ He never said that because that would have contradicted the entirety of scripture which teaches:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward [at the resurrection] that which is spiritual.

… and:

Heb 11:13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

I have added ‘at the resurrection’ in brackets. Is this really what is meant by “afterward that which is spiritual?”

Here is what the scriptures teach of what happens to all men if there is no resurrection:

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Christ is not one of thousands who had already gone to heaven. No man had yet ascended to heaven. Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept, and as you so eloquently pointed out to your friend, Hebrews informs us that “these [including Enoch] all died in faith, not having received the promise [of immortality].”

What about ‘While this was all very real to James and Peter and John, it was really just a vision of Enoch and Elijah?’ They were not really there any more than your dreams are real. It was “the vision.”

As I mentioned, you and I can convince no one of anything. The only way that Truth is learned is by supernatural revelation:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him [Peter], Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood [you or me] hath not revealed it [the fact that Christ is indeed the Son of God] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

You have been given the ‘eyes to see’ that the ‘many called’ have not been given.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them [ the “many called”] in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them [the ‘many called’] it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them [the ‘many called’] in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this [the many called but not chosen] people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

I hope this is of some edification to you whether or not God gives the “eyes to see and ears to hear.” to your friend.

Your brother in Christ,

Mike