Are All Things Really Ours?
Mike,
It serves no purpose for me to take the argument over the wheat and tares parable and the proper use of it into other scriptures that are not directly related to the word “tares”. The word has a specific meaning, the parable has specific, even a narrow definition of meanings from the Lord himself. If you think you can use it otherwise, go ahead. I do not know what purpose it serves to lead Christians to think that tares, which by definition is children of the evil one, resides in them and that the man of sin, the son of perdition sits in their temple/ body. I only know that by faith, I have Christ in me the hope of glory, and in the past I saw something in myself that quite frankly bothered me but have come to realize what was in me was flesh and carnally minded ego, both of which were designed to not want to please, in fact unable to please God:
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So I walk after the spirit.Without this inner conflict and external conflict of living in this evil age, the conforming process, whereby I am conformed to the image of His son, Rom 8:29, it would likely not take place. I am after all a child of the kingdom, not, I repeat not one of the children of the evil one. Thank God for his mercy, that I am a vessel of mercy. I was never marred and discarded as a vessel for he is still shaping me, Eph 2:10. You take liberties with that analogy also. The marred vessel is Israel of the flesh, vessels of wrath, and children of adulterous wife in Hos 1:9 and 10. That is exactly why Paul quotes these Hosea verses in Rom 9:26 to punctuate that they, Israel of the flesh, were always intended to be vessels of wrath and adulterous wife. But again you want to imply I am marred from the hand of the Creator. Why so Mike? Am I not to have faith in just the opposite? I do, I am called to be a child of God and have faith in the one who called me:
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.These are the things I believe in Mike, and so do you.
L____
Hi L____,
All I can think of to answer this e- mail is to ask you what these verses mean to you:
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Are you not a man? Did not the word ‘tares’ proceed out of the mouth of God? What does this verse mean to you? Have you never been a Pharisee looking down on a tax collector? Have you never been a self- righteous adulterer wanting to stone an adulterous woman? Have you never been the older self- righteous son who hated his prodigal brother? Have you never been one of ninety and nine who thought they needed no repentance? Have you never been blind? Have you never been a child of the devil? Have you never been a child of disobedience, a child of the prince of the power of the air? Have you never been a child of God’s wrath even as others?
Each and every one of these principles are contrasted with those who have come to see the truth of this verse:
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
What part of that verse is untrue? Are not the tares in the world? If they are and if they are “present” or if they are “to come” in this world, then “they are ours”. Have you never “defiled the temple of God”? That is what the man of sin does, and that is why he is destroyed. Is that either present or to come? Either way it is “all ours”.
What does this verse mean to you?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
“By inspiration of God” means all scripture was breathed out of the mouth of God. What this verse tells me is that I am the rich man who took my neighbor’s only sheep and killed it to spare myself the loss. What it tells me is that I am “chief of sinners” and “every word” that Paul wrote was inspired of God and applies to me, and is profitable to me. It is I who must live by every word that was inspired of God, “the world… things present or things to come.”
For whom are these words “profitable”? Who will “live by every one of these words which have proceeded out of the mouth of God” in this verse?
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, ( whoso readeth, let him understand🙂
You will never understand as long as you feel you were never that man of sin and you have never stood in the holy place claiming to be God, and when Paul spoke of wrath, he was speaking of physical Israel.
I am after all a child of the kingdom, not, I repeat not one of the children of the evil one. Thank God for his mercy, that I am a vessel of mercy. I was never marred and discarded as a vessel for he is still shaping me, Eph 2:10. You take liberties with that analogy also. The marred vessel is Israel of the flesh, vessels of wrath, and children of adulterous wife in Hos 1:9 and 10. That is exactly why Paul quotes these Hosea verses in Rom 9:26 to punctuate that they, Israel of the flesh, were always intended to be vessels of wrath and adulterous wife.
Your objection here reminds me of these words which are part of inspired scripture coming from the mouth of God. These are some more words you are living at this moment, just as I am more than willing to admit I have also lived in times past:
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [ then] are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
These are inspired words straight out of the mouth of God. “Those Jews which believed on Him” are you and me. We are Jews if we believe on Christ.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [ is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he [ is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [ is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [ and] not in the letter; whose praise [ is] not of men, but of God.
We “come behind in no gift” (1Co 1:7) but we are in our own time “carnal… babes in Christ” (1Co 3:1-4). Yet you say you are not now and never have been a marred vessel of wrath, and you say that in light of these verses:
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
You “were never a marred child of wrath”? Why then would anyone who was never marred in the Potter’s hand ever need to be “converted” or “made again as seemed good to the Potter”?
Yes, as you say, we both are afflicted with vanity. That sounds like an admission of being marred in the Potter’s hand to me, but then I see myself as chief of sinners and “that man” who took his neighbor’s only sheep and as living by every word that has proceeded out of the mouth of God. Am I simply vain to think that “all things present and things to come” apply to me, and that my old man was destroyed at the coming of Christ into my life to dethrone that abomination of desolation, in the temple which I am, and which I have defiled when “in time past I was a child of disobedience and a child of wrath, even as others”?
Where you stand at this moment you do not see yourself “living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God… or as all things present and to come being yours”. Those are things for those Jews who were marred in the Potter’s hand. That “man of sin who sits in the holy place claiming to be God” is apparently someone else to whom “all things present and to come” must apply.
I know who I am in the first Adam, and in him “that is, in my flesh, is no good thing”. I am that “man of sin the son of perdition” who has “defiled God’s temple”.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [ that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [ temple] ye are.
I know I have built upon the foundation of Christ with nothing more than wood, hay and stubble for the better part of 50 years. I know that I have defiled the temple of God, and I pray that God is in the process of destroying that old vessel and making it into “another vessel as seems good to the Potter to make it.” But in both cases I know that both my man of sin “defiling God’s temple which I am” and the new vessel into which He is making me, are both “in the Potter’s hand.”
Here is how the same holy spirit that inspired Christ to say that “this generation” would see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place” inspired Paul to speak of the same abomination in the same holy place within the temple of God:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [ will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Christ cannot come into His temple until He reveals to you that you are sitting in His temple claiming that you have never been marred in His hand and have never been a child of His wrath, in spite of His words to you in Eph 2:2-3. Therefore that man of sin is still sitting on the throne in Christ’s temple, proclaiming that these words have no personal application to him because he has never been marred in the Potter’s hand. Those are words that apply only to physical Jews, not to carnal babes in Christ. The man of sin believes that he has to live by very few of the words that have proceeded out of the mouth of God, and he certainly does not believe that all things present and all things to come are his to keep simply because they are written therein.
Rev 1:3 Blessed [ is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [ even] at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
So this man of sin continues to sit smugly on the throne of God in the temple of God declaring that “all things present and all things to come” do not have any personal application, and as long as that is the case, now you know what withholds the coming of Christ to “destroy that man of sin sitting in the temple of God… which temple you are”.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [ that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
“They receive not the love of the Biblical Truth” that this man of sin must “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that the tares in God’s field must be gathered out and burned in the day of judgment, that all things present and all things to come are ours.”
Do those things sound like they are not true? If physical Israel really is God’s vessel of wrath and we are not, as you assert, then Paul was way off base, and you are right.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But if Paul is right, then you are not, and we really are all by nature children of wrath even as others, and we really do live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and all things present and all things to come really are ours. All the human reasoning to the contrary, man… shall live by every word of God and “all things that are ours… come alike to all men.” There is but “one event to all” simply because “men shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God… the righteous and the wicked… the good and the sinner,” will all have their tares and all their false doctrines gathered and burned in the day of judgment known as the time of the harvest.
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
God’s ‘barn’ and His ‘temple’ are one and the same, and no one will enter either until the seven plagues of the seven angels have been poured out in his life.
Rev 1:3 Blessed [ is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled [“kept”, Rev 1:3].
It is I who admit that “in times past” I was “that man”, I was “chief of sinners… a child of God’s wrath… I was naked, poor and miserable, I was marred in the Potter’s hand and lived by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God, and I was “tares” before I was “good seed”. It is I who confess that “all things present and all things to come are mine”. I even confess that “in times past” it was I who “received not the love of the truth”, was under strong delusion. But then my old man, who was sitting on the throne of God, in the temple of God… “which temple I am”, was destroyed by the brightness of this knowledge that all things present and things to come… every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God, were all personally applicable to me, and that I truly must “keep the things written therein… all things present and things to come.”
Yes, if Christ is truly within us, then we will receive these, His words, and be built upon the foundation of Christ and the apostles of Eph 2:20.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [ stone];
But Eph 2:20 can never be true until after Eph 2:2 is fulfilled in the life of every man.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
It is not mine to change anyone’s heart, but those are very plain words, and they were just as hard for me to receive as you find them at this time. But it is in our fiery trials that that man of sin is destroyed and replaced with Christ within us.
Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
Those “fires” are always Christ and His Truth in the mouths of those who bring Him and His Truth to others.
Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
As Eph 2 makes so very clear, it is in the destruction of our old man that we are built upon the foundation of Christ and His Words. If we don’t die to our old man and his Babylonian doctrines which deny Mat 4:4, 1Co 3:21-22, Rev 1:3, and Rev 22:7, we will not find life while we are in this life.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it
Those who are just need no repentance, those who are well need no physician, and those who see do not need sight.
I pray that vanity and pride do not continue to replace the love of the Truth in either of us, because if we do not “keep the things written therein… all things present and all things to come… every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”, and acknowledge the Truth that “all things come alike to all”, while we are in these marred vessels which are being remade by the fires that burn up the tares that we once were, then what we are saying is that we will do all of those words which have proceeded out of the mouth of God at a later, much less desirable date, known as “the second death which is the lake of fire.”
Your brother (who was “chief of sinners”, and who freely admits that he once thought just as you do until “the brightness of His coming”),
Mike
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- Did God Make Man Upright? (June 19, 2008)
- Did Enoch And Elijah See Death? (December 22, 2004)
- Did Christ Teach Self Mutilation? (January 30, 2010)
- Did Christ Pick Corn on the Sabbath? (September 15, 2011)
- Definition of a True Christian (March 30, 2009)
- Death Hell And Eternity (January 24, 2009)
- Days of Creation and The Seventh Day (November 11, 2007)
- David And Bathsheba Not Stoned (July 10, 2008)
- Cutting Off The Hand Of The Wife (January 15, 2010)
- Cutting Off Her Hand (May 17, 2010)
- Crying and Mark of Eze 9_5_7 (October 5, 2011)
- Crooked Serpent represent Babylon? (March 30, 2009)
- Confessing Our Sins (January 3, 2009)
- Communicate With The Dead? (March 30, 2009)
- Christ and Melchisedec (May 3, 2008)
- Christ Having To Die (March 6, 2008)
- Choosing Evil And Dutch Translation Of Site (February 10, 2009)
- Chaste Conversation (June 20, 2008)
- Can Women Preach? (October 11, 2006)
- Can We Live Sinless Lives? (March 27, 2007)
- Can We Live By Every Word Of God? (September 5, 2011)
- Can We Know The Truth? (October 10, 2008)
- Can We Change God's Mind? (June 12, 2008)
- Can A Person Really Talk To Dead People? (December 28, 2009)
- Can A Christian Make A Graven Image? (June 23, 2009)
- Burning And The Book Of Life (June 12, 2005)
- Born Again_Gestation Mystery Solved! (July 10, 2008)
- Being Tempted Versus Being Tested (October 30, 2008)
- Being Sin Versus Sinning (October 17, 2008)
- Because He Could Swear By No Greater (August 30, 2007)
- Beast Accountability For Human Lifeblood? (December 15, 2010)
- Are We All Failures? (November 18, 2009)
- Are We All Blasphemers? (November 18, 2009)
- Are We A Sweet Savor Offering? (January 25, 2010)
- Are We A Sin Offering Like Christ? (May 5, 2008)
- Are Unbelievers Already Justified? (March 9, 2010)
- Are There Two Israels? (November 15, 2008)
- Are There Prophecies Only For The End Times? (March 26, 2009)
- Are The Writings of Paul More Important? (July 6, 2006)
- Are The Two Adams Both Trees? (November 1, 2010)
- Are The Seraphim Evil Spirits? (June 3, 2009)
- Are The Preparations of The Heart Really From Man? (October 21, 2010)
- Are The Book And The Books The Same? (December 21, 2009)
- Are Prayer Tongues Scriptural? (January 24, 2010)
- Are Parts of The Law Still To Be Kept? (August 20, 2007)
- Are Enoch And Elijah In Heaven? (October 11, 2010)
- Are Baby Dedications Scriptural? (December 18, 2009)
- Are Animals Resurrected? (October 29, 2008)
- Are All Things Really Ours? (July 18, 2010)
- Another Jesus and Another Gospel (May 17, 2008)
- And the Word Was God (September 1, 2010)
- An Infidel and Envy Versus Jealously (November 27, 2007)
- An Attitude of Gratitude (September 25, 2007)
- Amazed And Thankful (September 6, 2010)