The World Means Babylon The Church

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Hi C____,

You ask about the ‘coals of fire’ of Rom 12:20.

Rom12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

You are so right; this has nothing to do with revenge, because as you can see, the preceding verse is an admonition against the very natural desire for revenge. The ‘fire’ here is the same fire that Joseph’s brothers experienced for 17 years after Joseph had revealed himself unto them. They had done evil to Joseph, and he had returned good to them. They knew that they did not deserve to be treated well. The fire was their own consciences and the fact that they knew that, had they been in Joseph’s place, they would have sought revenge just as soon as their father died. This whole story is given to let us know what the lake of fire is all about. Joseph’s brothers were “tormented in the presence of the lamb” in type:

Gen 42:21 And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.
Gen 42:22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
Gen 42:23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.

It always works that way when we return good for evil. It torments our tormentors. It “heaps coals of ‘fire’ on their heads.”

No, there is no ‘reserve list’ of the elect. God already knows exactly who the elect are. Only the elect will ever be the elect. Christ knew beforehand that the rich young ruler would never “sell all that [ he] had and take up his cross and follow Christ.”

“This happened unto [ him] and it is written for our admonition.”

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This verse applies to every verse of scripture. It is all for us.

You ask:

No, I don’t really think it will surprise you if you are a mother, to learn that the word translated ‘perfect’ in scripture is actually ‘mature,’ and no, Christ was not ‘as God’ to use your words, ‘mature.’ Christ had come in a very immature “body of flesh.” Jesus Christ had to wet and mess His diaper, just like you or me. He had to learn His alphabet just like you and me. And as the story of His getting left behind at Jerusalem, at the age of twelve shows us, He learned obedience by the things that He suffered, just like we do.

Christ really did “become sin” simply by coming in the flesh. Though He “became sin” and became “sinful flesh,” yet Christ is the only human who has ever lived who never did sin. If this sounds confusing, it will all be cleared up by reading Andrew Jukes’ book ‘The Law and the Offerings.’ God gave us a ‘sin offering’ for what we are, that is, sinful flesh. But we still needed an offering for what we do. So we were also given a ‘trespass offering for what we do in our sinful flesh.

If Christ in His flesh did not experience exactly what we experience, then His coming would have meant very little to us. If Christ had not had to learn to say ‘Not my will, but thine be done,’ then we could hardly identify with someone who had never even experienced the struggles of the flesh. Christ experienced the struggles of the flesh!

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [ thing]; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

If you will notice, the word ‘thing’ is in brackets. The reason it is in brackets is to let us know that that word was not in the original Greek. So what it really says is simply ‘touch not the unclean.’ So what exactly is the ‘unclean?’ Paul has used the two preceding verses listing the ‘unclean.’ I have emboldened the words in that list: Unbelievers, unrighteousness, darkness, Belial infidel and idols. After listing all these unclean things, Paul tells us that we are the “temple of God.” Then he quotes the Old Testament where God tells his people: “I will dwell in them.”

Now we come to the verse you ask about. After telling us what is unclean; after telling us that we are God’s temple and God’s people, Paul quotes Isa 52:11 “Come out from among them and be ye separate.” What is so sadly misunderstood is that these verses do not refer to the lost uncalled world of infidels. No, they do not. They are referring to the people who claim the name of Christ. Yes, these are those to whom Paul is referring. John also quotes these verses in Isaiah in Rev 18:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

This is the chapter concerning the judgment of Babylon. Babylon is “the mother of harlots and of abominations of the earth.” Babylon is the seven churches of the first three chapters of Revelation. Babylon has lost her first love, has the Nicolaitans, has the synagogue of Satan and the very throne (KJV-‘Satan’s seat’) of Satan in her midst; suffers that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols; Hast a name that thou livest, and art dead; Have defiled their garments; Are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, [ and] will [ therefore be] spued thee out of my mouth; They say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

So everything mentioned in 2Co 6:14-17 is covered in God’s church, which in Rev 17 and 18 is called “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of abominations of the world.” When Christ spoke to His disciples about being hated of the world, He was never speaking of being hated of the uncalled world. Look at some of the final words our Lord spoke to his disciples about “the world.” Ask your self, ‘who is He speaking of here?’:

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it [ the world] hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they [ the world] have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Joh 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Joh 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Joh 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Christ uses the words “the world” seven times in two verses. In the next six verses He refers to this same people with the plural pronouns ‘they,’ ‘them’ and ‘their’ 13 times. Is He ever referring to the uncalled, pagan Romans? No, not once! Who, then is “the world?” It is “the world” that “hated me before it hated you.” It is “the world” of which Christ tells His Disciples: “I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” It is “the world” that “persecuted me.” It is “the world” which has “their law” in which it is written, “They hated me without a cause.”

“The world” is the people of God, who have no use for the words of Christ. It is the orthodox Christian world who have no intention of ‘loving their enemies.’ They will instead “Kill you thinking that they do God service.”

That, with all of it’s “idols of their hearts” (Eze 14:1-9), is “the unclean thing,” to which Paul refers. The ‘elect’ are called “out of Babylon.” “Come out of her my people.”

Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Your final question was:

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [ be] ready always to [ give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

The “meekness and fear” is definitely not the asker. It is very seldom that I get questions asked “with meekness and fear.” Yet I try to answer them all. God’s word is referred to in the scriptures in several ways. One of those symbols is a ‘sword.’ Far too often, like Peter, we tend to “cut off the ears” of others as we wield that sword. Peter was not acting in a spirit of “meekness and fear.” Peter, like most of the people of God to this day, would much rather fight for Christ, than to die with Him.

I hope this helps your understanding just a little.


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