The Man Taken To The Third Heaven
God Bless the IWWB Team… Thank you
As the (HUMBLE) Elect of God, gains knowledge and wisdom – we start to recognize who we are…
1Jn 4:17 In this is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, that as He is, so also we are in this world.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak; for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
I have heard you share on….
1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the antichrist you heard is coming, and even now is already in the world.
… and I couldn’t agree with you more – The ‘world’ cannot see or hear the Spirit speaking on the ‘sinful’ flesh.
But I have a question – 2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti- christ.
Isn’t this speaking of the elect?
We know Christ within – Col 1:27 For to them God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,
The world will deny the elect comes with Christ within – in this flesh…
That’s why…
Mat 10:21 And brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child. And the children shall rise up against their parents and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And you will be hated of all men for My name’s sake, but the one who endures to the end shall be kept safe.
But we desire (through HIS faith) to listen to him…
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
ALSO – just an observation on a point you made about the Apostle Paul
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ fourteen years before (whether in the body, I do not know; or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught up to the third Heaven.
… couldn’t he be speaking about Stephen – since Saul was there?
Act 7:54 And hearing these things, they were cut to their hearts. And they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking up intently into Heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Act 7:56 And he said, Behold, I see Heaven opened and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 And crying out with a loud voice, they stopped their ears and ran on him with one accord.
Act 7:58 And throwing him outside the city, they stoned him. And the witnesses laid their clothes down at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And kneeling down, he cried with a loud voice, Lord, do not lay this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting to his death. And in that day there was a great persecution on the church at Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Anyway – Mike THANKS – God bless
THANKS,
P___
Hi T___,
It is so very satisfying to see that you are coming to ‘see who you are in Christ.’
You ask:
But I have a question – 2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti- christ. Isn’t this speaking of the elect?
Yes, indeed. I have written many letters which state that the phrase, “Christ is come in the flesh” is to be applied both to His coming into our sinful flesh, just as He “emptied Himself” and came into sinful flesh, “made of a woman, made under the law.”
Php 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, (YLT)
If you think Christ’s flesh was somehow different from ours, then you do not know Christ and you have the spirit of antichrist. If Christ could not come in sinful, Adamic, human flesh back then, then how could He be in us now? But He did come in human flesh, and He is in those who recognize that as a fact now. Anyone who denies either is “that spirit of antichrist. This verse you are quoting is a repeat of what John had said in his first epistle:
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Are these verses speaking of Christ in us? Yes they are! Are they also speaking of Christ having come in the flesh, when He was born of Mary? Yes they are also speaking of Christ coming in a body made of “THE flesh,” the one and only flesh of Adam. Christ was both the son of God, through His heavenly Father, and He was also the son of Adam through being “made of a woman, made under the law.”
This is life and death knowledge and understanding. If God says Christ came “in the flesh” we had better simply agree with Him.
You also ask if the man Paul knew who was taken up into the third heaven is Stephen.
I do not think it was, simply because Paul says he knew this man heard words which it is not lawful for men to utter. There is no indication that Stephen had any such conversation with Paul before Stephen’s stoning, and it is certain it didn’t happen afterward. Because of the entire tone of these verses it is very likely that Paul is speaking of the new man in himself as opposed to the old man whose infirmities were in Paul’s own flesh:
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
We do all of our glorying in Christ who is in us. It is right here in this very same epistle that Paul make this statement:
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [ him] no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man [ be] in Christ, [ he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but [ now] I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [ to be], or [ that] he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Christ referred to Himself in the third person when He made this statement concerning His own coming to us through the spirit of His father.
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [ that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
It is through “Christ in us” that we know the Father, and recognize the voice of His Son.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Christ is not the holy spirit of God, but the holy spirit of God has been given to Christ, and it is through that gift that Christ is in us.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine [ the holy spirit] , and shall shew it unto you.
Finally look at what Paul tells us provokes this statement about this man he knew “above 14 years ago.” It’s right here in the very next verses.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Hearing ‘words which are unlawful to utter’ is “abundance of revelations,” and Paul is certainly speaking of Himself.
I hope this gives you some guidance in this matter, Tom. I am still a student so please let me know if you think I am overlooking something here.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike
Other related posts
- When Does Christ Begin to Live in Us? (January 27, 2012)
- What is Spiritual Circumcision? (July 20, 2011)
- What We Are Given In Christ? (March 17, 2009)
- What Is Lacking Of His Afflictions (January 7, 2009)
- Unbelievers Lives And The Lake Of Fire (May 11, 2010)
- Two Or Three In My Name (July 10, 2008)
- Think It Not Robbery To Be Equal With Christ (December 18, 2009)
- The Zeal of Thine House Hath Eaten Me Up (November 30, 2011)
- The Real Meaning of In the Beginning (August 23, 2011)
- The New Testament Versus The Old (February 4, 2010)
- The Meaning Of 1000 Years (June 20, 2004)
- The Manifestation Of Christ Within Us (May 15, 2009)
- The Man Taken To The Third Heaven (June 24, 2009)
- The Christ of Christ (January 10, 2009)
- Meaning Of a Wheel? (December 29, 2008)
- Is Christs Sacrifice Continued In Us? (March 15, 2009)
- In What Way Is Christ God (June 3, 2008)
- In The Likeness Of Sinful Flesh (June 6, 2007)
- How Old Was Christ When He Died? (May 13, 2011)
- Henceforth Know We No Man After The Flesh (June 10, 2010)
- Do The Aions Come To An End? (October 6, 2008)
- Church In Kenya (April 13, 2004)
- Christ Made Sin 2008 (July 25, 2008)
- Christ As Son of Man and Son of God (July 23, 2003)