What Does “…To Be Absent From The Body, And To Be Present With The Lord” Mean?

Sir,

​I understand the principles of nephesh and rauch from Old Testament and corresponding New Testament words.  I have kept all of the old articles and understand the idea of the three heavens, both physical and spiritual.

​My questioning comes from the similarity of the two scriptures in 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1:23. Looks to me that this is where orthodoxy gets their ‘mystical theology’ of ‘something between death and resurrection.’

​Just wondered if you might give me a heads up from your scriptural perspective.

Hope that things are well with you and yours.

Respectfully,​

D​____

Hi D​____,

Thank you for your question.

​I pray you are given to receive the Biblical Truth that God’s word must be taken in its sum before you can arrive at what it actually teaches.

Psa 119:160  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever. ​(ESV)​

​Not understanding this Truth has contributed to the 40 thousand divisions of Christ, which we call Christian denominations.

1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul [Baptist]; and I of Apollos [Methodist]; and I of Cephas [Pentecostal]; and I of Christ [There are a few who know who it was that was crucified for us all].
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

​Christ is not divided,​ but many who want to wear His name will not eat His food or wear His garments:

Isa 4:1  And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

​If you are back in church with the knowledge of scripture you mention in this e-mail you may well discover that your church knows​ little of “the principles of nephesh and rauch from OT and corresponding NT words… the idea of the three heavens, both physical and spiritual.”

​What will happen in your church with this knowledge has already been written in the Lord’s book of your life (Psa 139:16), so I will give you more of “the sum of [His] Word” concerning these verses about which you inquire.

Here are the verses you mentioned:

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

​It seems that it was only yesterday that I myself quoted these two verses to some Jehovah’s Witnesses who were telling me that dead people really were dead, and I myself, not knowing I was doing so, changed the word ‘and’ to ‘is’, making 2Co 5:98 say… “to be absent from the body, [is] to be present with the Lord”, and making Php 1:23 say… “to depart, [is] to be with Christ”.

​But when we consider “the sum of [His] Word” (Psa 119:160, ASV) we see that the scriptures nowhere teach that ‘to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord’ or that ‘to depart IS to be with Christ’. Rather, what we learn is that the New Testament apostles taught that if there is not a resurrection from the dead,​ then they that are asleep in Christ are perished:

1Co 15:16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Peter tells us that King David “is not ascended into the heavens”:

Act 2:34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

What is Peter’s logic which proves to Peter that “David is not ascended into the heavens”? This is how he knew that was true:

Act 2:29  Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

​That statement accords with the consistent doctrine Christ gave to Adam and Eve:

Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

​The Lord did not threaten Adam with eternal torment for his immortal soul if he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Instead he told Adam that the wages of sin were death. “In the day you eat thereof you will surely die”.

​What is the New Testament doctrine concerning the fruit of our sins?​

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:21  What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

​There is no mention by any of the New Testament writers of eternal torment as the wages of sin. “The wages of sin is death” is the doctrine of both the Old and the New Testaments, not roasting in hell forever.

​I remember well how upset I became with those Jehovah’s Witnesses when they showed me this verse of scripture:

Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

​I will close with one more of many examples from scripture which demonstrate that to die is to be dead:

Ecc 3:18  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 

​There you have much more of “the sum of [His] Word”. Here in Ecclesiastes you have the Biblical doctrine of what happens to a person at his death spoken in very clear words. Men and beast have the same experience at death… “a man hath no preeminence above a beast…All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.” Men are beasts and “have no preeminence above a beast”. Men neither go to eternal torment at death, nor do they “ascend into the heavens” at death. These verses agree with the doctrine Christ gave to Adam in the garden of Eden:

Gen 3:19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

​God did not tell Adam, ‘An immortal soul you are, and to eternal torment you will go.​’ It wasn’t the Lord who told Adam “You will not surely die”. That is the doctrine of the serpent, and most Christians to this day, just like Adam and Eve, believe the serpent over the Lord.

Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: [‘you have an immortal soul’]

​That is what deceived men yet believe instead of the Lord’s words, “You will surely die… dust you are and to dust you will return”.

So what did Paul mean by telling us:

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

​What Paul is telling us is that he was ready to die AND to be with Christ. This was his state of mind at this time:

2Ti 4:6  For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7  I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

​It is Paul who told us “if the dead rise not they who have fallen asleep in Christ are perished”. It is also Paul who tells us that it is only at the resurrection that we are “raised a spiritual body”:

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

​”The righteous Judge will give [Pau]… a spiritual body… at [the resurrection] day”. And as Paul tells us “and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

What Paul is telling us in the following verses…​

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

​…​is that he knew “the dead know not anything” (Ecc 9:5) and that when he drew his last breath, that he would be totally unaware of the passing of time, and that his next conscious moment would be in the presence of Christ at the resurrection with a new spiritual body which would no longer be subject to death. Paul knew that until that day he was yet a mortal man, subject to death:

1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

​I hope all these verses of scripture from both the Old and the New Testaments, have served to show you what Paul meant by saying he was “willing… to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord”.

Your brother in Christ, Mike

[Here is another letter dealing with the same question:]