Hi, Mike,

After we left the WCG we have listened to and read the writings of many: Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley, RC Sproul, John MacArthur and many more. Not because I believe everything they said but because it tells me what they believe and why, so that I have some idea as to what kind of response to give when discussing scriptural things. But as the saying goes,”Anyone convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.” So, as said previously, I don’t argue with people. It was fruitless. And understand: I am prompting your responses to understand more fully where you are coming from. Much of what you say is what I already believe though there are some things that do not gel with what I do believe. As written previously, I see Cain and Abel as prototypes of the flesh and spirit lines of descent. Abel was an elect as Heb 11 points out and is a part of the ekkesia theou to be in the first resurrection. Lord Jesus is in the process of “building His ekklesia.” And we understand Paul’s statement in Rom 11 that blindness in part came on Israel until the fulness of the gentiles come in to mean that the full complement of the gentiles are built into the ekkesia when the present evil age is complete and the first resurrection takes place after which Israel according to the flesh are returned to the land and the twelve apostles will be administering affairs over them. With that I will break off.
I am pondering what you write with prayer as is my wont. So I expect the Lord will direct me in the understanding He wishes me to have. I hope you understand that I don’t take offense at differences of opinion. I know you are convinced you have the truth. I too, am convinced we have the truth. But there is One who is the Truth. And He directs us thru Paul not to sit in judgment but let each be persuaded in his own mind and the Lord can make each to stand since we all are servants in His household.

Peace be with you and yours,
A____

Hi A____,
You say:

And He [ Christ] directs us thru Paul not to sit in judgment but let each be persuaded in his own mind and the Lord can make each to stand since we all are servants in His household.

You are referring to Rom 14:5:

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [ alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [ it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [ it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

If we apply these verse as you are doing, then that would nullify the five times repeated admonition to “be of one mind”, which Paul himself repeats several times, one of which is in the very next chapter:

Rom 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

How did “Christ also receive us”? He received us “while we were yet sinners”, but He requires that we “grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior”. If we apply Rom 14:5 as you and the entire ecumenical world apply it, we would very likely end up with over 30,000 differing and conflicting Christian denominations of men. And that is exactly what we have today. It is hard to make this situation accord with these words of scripture:

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [ be] pitiful, be courteous:

When the scriptures repeat themselves it is because it is very important to do so. When anything is repeated twice, it is extremely important, but when it is repeated five times, it is of the utmost importance and is definitely the voice of the True shepherd.
Rom 14:5 is an admonition to those who are strong in the faith to be patient with one who “is weak in the faith”, and it even tells us that those who are weak in the faith will “eat only herbs” spiritually, and will tend to judge their stronger brothers in Christ.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye [ You stronger brothers Rom 15:1], [ but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things [“We that are strong”]: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth [ the strong brother] despise him that eateth not [ is weak in the faith]; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou [ who eats not] that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

It takes a brother who is spiritually very strong to “esteem every day alike” as did our Lord and His apostles.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

If Rom 14:5 were taken as the ecumenical world takes it, then we could certainly avoid being “hated of all men”, but Paul would have to retract Gal 4:9-11. There would be no way or reason to “try the spirits” because each man is to be fully persuaded in his own mind, and there certainly would never be a time to ever consider anyone to be a heretic or a fornicator, either physically or spiritually.
If Rom 14:5 means we cannot really know whether we are right or wrong for certain what are we to do with these verses of God’s word?

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Anyone applying these verses today is considered to be a heretic, but that does not make these verses any the less true and applicable for you and for me.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The only way to “try the spirits of false prophets is against the Word of God. “Many” means the majority. And if we do “try the spirits”, then please explain to me how we cannot but apply these words in this very same chapter:

1Jn 4:5 They [ who do not “try the spirits” and who think Rom 14:5 nullifies all these verses telling us to be of one mind] are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Is it really possible to know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error if we believe that “be fully persuaded in our own minds” means we can each have our own doctrines?
Then there are also these verses by this same apostle, teaching us the same “be of one mind” doctrine the apostle Paul and Christ taught.

2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [ spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Since I’ve mentioned our Lord, let’s look at His words on this subject:

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

How were Christ and His Father “one”?

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Was Christ free to be “fully persuaded in His own mind”? Can you honestly imagine Christ differing with His Father in 30,000+ ways and doctrines? How does Christ want us to be one in Him. Is He serious about being one? Here are His words concerning how He wants His body to be one:

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Being of “one mind” has been the condition of those who have the mind of Christ since the day of Pentecost after Christ’s resurrection. The body of Christ recognizes the voice of the true shepherd and are not afraid of that voice or the words coming out of the mouth of our Lord. The true body of Christ comes out of the conflicting denominations and churches of this world and takes on the “one mind” of Christ and His Father, and it tries the spirits and does not let heretics into its house and rejects those who come with another doctrine, and does not bid them god speed. The true body of Christ “Knows the Truth” and stands upon it. All who deny that is possible will be judged out of their own mouth, because these are the words of our Lord:

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [ then] are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Knowing the Truth is knowing Christ, and that is life eternal.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

In closing I will remind you of your own words:

I am pondering what you write with prayer as is my wont. So I expect the Lord will direct me in the understanding He wishes us to have.

Indeed He will direct you in the understanding He wishes you to have because it is He who is working all things after the counsel of His own will. That is especially true of what He places within our hearts and minds. Every day of our lives was all written in His book before any of our days existed.

Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

So we will just wait to see what He is working within each of us. To know Him is to know His Words and to “keep the things written therein” (Rev 1:3 and 22:6-7)
God bless you. I stand on all these words of our Lord “with fear and trembling”.
Your brother in Christ.
Mike