Hi Mike,

Do you see grace (which chastens and disciplines) available (accessible) only to those who have come out of Babylon?

Seems to me, those who are under law, false doctrine of Christ, don’t have access to grace. The law hasn’t done its work yet of leading them to the true Christ. They do not have the faith of Christ.

In other words, is grace what brings us out of Babylon, or is grace (the chastening that causes daily death to self) a result of coming out of Babylon?

Seems to me that grace is given to all men, but it is only through faith that it is “accessed”.

Rom 5:2 through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace. (seems if sin no longer has dominion over one, then one is out of Babylon).

Thanks for your time and ministry.

L____

Hi L____,

I have pointed out on many occasions that grace and faith cannot be separated:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grace comes only “through faith.” Now, with that in mind, I want you to look at this verse of God’s Word:

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

We are told “not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.” And we are told to think “according to the measure of faith.” It is “by grace through faith” that we receive the “deadly wound by a sword” when we first come “to Christ” through the law-keeping “son of the bondwoman” church. That is the “measure of faith” given to us up to that time. But even though we have been “brought to Christ by the law,” even though we are “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints… coming behind in no gift,” we are nevertheless “yet carnal.”

1Co 1:1 Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother,
1Co 1:2 (a) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Babylon is “in everything enriched by Him, in all utterance and knowledge.” It is while still in Babylon that “the testimony of Christ is confirmed in us and we come behind in no gift.”

And yet we are told that with all of these blessings, those who are in Babylon are “yet carnal…[with] enmity against God.”

This is “the measure of faith” given to us at this point, and that faith is “by grace.” It is one of the hardest things in the world for us to see how we can come out of Babylon and yet not be part of the “body of Christ, which is His church.”

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

A letter has just been posted which explains this phenomenon. It is entitled ‘How Can We Come Out of The Church and Still Be In It?’ I will not rewrite that letter here, but you need to read it to understand how “grace is given to all men” and yet men can come out of Babylon and still be carnal.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

The law has done its work of bringing those in Babylon to Christ. Their beast within has received a “deadly wound with a sword.” They have been “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints.” Nevertheless “they are yet carnal.” This is all accomplished through the “many pastors” who will not enter into the kingdom and hinder those who would and make them two fold “more the child of hell than themselves.”

Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

The “gold, silver and precious stones” of Babylon are real “gold, silver and precious stones.” But under the “many pastors” they are cankered gold and they are in need of purification of the fire of God’s Word.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

To answer your question directly, grace is available to all men – in and out of Babylon. But it is available only “according to the measure of faith” given to each man.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I hope this has answered your question. Read that paper on ‘How We Can Come Out Of The Church and Still Be In It?’ Then if you still don’t understand how this is possible, drop me another e- mail.

Mike

Thank you Mike, I read tonight 1Co 1-10 again. I would appreciate your prayers, this has been one of the hardest areas for me to “come out of”, the ingrained belief that once we “accept Christ” we still are not there.

It is hard for me to accept (my flesh) that those sanctified in Christ (at least most) will have to go through the lake of fire along with those not sanctified, the non believers. I think I still struggle with the lake of fire as being punishment and unloving rather than God’s love in action. I mean this at a heart level, as I have knowledge of it, but all is a process.

Thanks again, L____

Hi L____,

I’m glad that you are at least struggling with this issue. Here is a scripture you will find helpful in understanding that the lake of fire is a work of grace. Paul is talking to Peter at Antioch when Peter and Barnabas had separated themselves from the Gentiles after having eaten with the Gentiles before. The only reason they were separating themselves was because some other Christian brothers from Jerusalem had come down to Antioch and were telling Peter and Barnabas that the law of Moses forbade them from eating with the Gentiles. This was true. If you believed that anything which has touched a piece of unclean meat was itself unclean, then you would indeed be obliged to separate yourself from eating with people who were comfortable eating unclean meats.

Now you will not find a command in the law of Moses which states clearly ‘you shall not sit down to eat with a Gentile’, but that is the message and force of the laws of the offerings. Any earthen utensil which has ever touched a piece of unclean meat was to be destroyed.

Lev 11:33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them [the meat of any unclean animal] falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.

With this understanding of why Peter and Barnabas and all of the Jews who were with them separating themselves from their Gentile brothers at Antioch, look at this admonition which Paul give to Peter “before them all:”

Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Now it was Paul who also revealed to us that grace comes through faith. Here we see that Paul is telling Peter that “no flesh” (not even Jewish flesh) shall be justified by the works of the law.”

What Paul is telling Peter is that salvation comes only by grace through faith. And this is true for “all flesh”, Gentile and Jew alike:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

“Grace through faith” is the formula for salvation. And that faith is the “faith OF Jesus Christ.” It is the gift of God to give us His chastening grace through the faith of His Son Jesus Christ. And this will be done just as thoroughly through Christ as death passed upon all men through Adam without consulting any of us as to whether or not we would choose to be “in Adam:”

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

“As in Adam… so in Christ.” Now if two plus two equals four, and it does, then this equation means that just as all men are subjected to “the law of sin and death” and experience Adam’s experience of “doing that which we would not” even so “in Christ, all mankind will experience God’s chastening grace “chastening us to forsake ungodliness and worldly lust and to live godly lives…”

Some few will have this experience of God’s chastening grace while yet in these “marred… vessels of clay,” which Paul refers to as “the body of this death.” But it is God Himself who decided “before the world began” that He would choose these few out of the many He would call. The reason for choosing the ‘few’ out of the many is to use the ‘few’ to bring in the ‘many:’

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

“God has concluded all in unbelief” not for the purpose of tormenting all for all eternity, but for the purpose of using His elect to also show mercy to the rest of mankind: “… That through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.”

That mercy will be the “free grace” of God’s greatest work of His chastening grace in the experience of mankind. It is called a “lake of fire.” And who is this ‘lake of fire but those who “are like Him” who is a “consuming fire.” Here are the scriptures for these statements:

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

“We shall be like Him?” Then what is He like?

Heb 12:29 … Our God is a consuming fire.

And who is it that dwells in this “consuming… everlasting fire?” Is it the the wicked who are being tormented for all eternity, as the many called but not chosen “mother of harlots” and her daughter harlots teach? Is that who is to “dwell in” and comprise this lake of fire? What say the scriptures of those who are “like Him?”

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites [harlots]. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

So you see, God’s decision to use His elect to bring in his called is no different than His choosing Christ to bring in His elect. God is not “loving and hugging His mature children while telling his immature children that He doesn’t love them,” as I have been accused of teaching. What God is doing is carrying out a plan which is in line with His own “purpose for the eons” which He sovereignly conceived “before the world began:”

Eph 3:11 in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord;”(CLV)

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

God determined “before the world began” who would receive eternal (eonian) life and therefore who would also receive eternal (eonian) punishment.” Neither, of course, have anything to do with the English word ‘eternity.” Both have to do with the “purpose of the aions.”

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [Greek: chronos aionios – times aionian],

I hope this helps you to see the lake of fire in its scriptural perspective. It is not the “mark of the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus.” But neither is it the unspeakable monstrosity which the “many pastors” of Babylon have made it out to be. It is a day of giving account for all whom God decided to “hate while they were in their mother’s womb having done neither good nor evil.”

Being “hated of all men” is what we simply must experience if we hope to be in the blessed and holy first resurrection.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Yet we must never be ashamed to confess with the apostle Paul what has been granted to us:

Eph 3:8 To me, less than the least of all saints, was granted this grace: to bring the evangel of the untraceable riches of Christ to the nations,
Eph 3:9 and to enlighten all as to what is the administration of the secret, which has been concealed from the eons in God, Who creates all,
Eph 3:10 that now may be made known to the sovereignties and the authorities among the celestials, through the ecclesia, the multifarious wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord;”

If the scriptures are reliable, and they are, then these words are truer today more than ever because we have been forewarned:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

“The administration of the secret” is still to this very day “sealed with seven seals” from all but the “seven angels of the seven churches.”

Rev 19:9 And he [the angel] saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Let’s simply believe what God has revealed to us about who we are and what is our calling and commission.

Mike