H_____ wrote:

Hello Mike,

Thank you for taking my questions. You and your website have been extremely helpful to me – thanks again.

Concerning the topic of salvation, a pastor told me that there is a specific order to being saved, namely: Mar 16: 15,16 – summarized: believe – baptized – saved. My own salvation experience was not in this order nor was I aware at the time that there was an order or strict sequence to being saved. God saved me from possible suicide. The condensed version of my salvation story: I believed the christian message – asked Jesus to save me and believed through faith that he did – and as a public expression of that faith, I was baptized about a month later. Summarized: believed – saved – baptized. This pastor told me that because the sequence was out of order according to the above scripture, I’m not saved in fact he is adamant about this and basically said that if I wanted to become a “covenant christian” (what all true christians are according to him) I would have to go through the proper sequence and unless I do, I am not a christian – disturbing.

Any thoughts on this? As always your comments and oppinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Respectfully,

H_____

Hi H____

Thank you for your question.

Most ministers have no idea what either ‘believe,’ ‘baptize’ or ‘be saved’ means. I personally was twice baptized in water and was as carnal when I came up out of that physical water as I was when I went into it. This was true in both cases. Listen closely to this statement. NOTHING you do outwardly will either defile you or make you clean or spiritual inwardly:

Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

What this verse is saying is that “nothing without a man” can either defile or cleanse a man. All of these changes are inward. They are completely independent of any ritual you may perform. Do you want to know what the ‘water’ which truly baptizes you really is? Here is how you are baptized with ‘water:’

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

It is “the Word.” It is Christ. Our true baptism is “in spirit.” And what is spirit?

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ’s Words are water and fire and spirit and Truth and life and death. It is through Christ’s Words that we get to know both Him and His father:

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son [ certainly not orthodox ministers], but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Christ’s Word, His doctrines, are the water which baptizes and cleanses us. Christ’s Words are the fire which is “already kindled” in those who are “now being judged.” It is this fiery Word which burns out the desires of the flesh in us until we are “dead to the flesh,” so that we are “crucified with Christ.” And it is through this same word that we are resurrected and given the life because we were willing, through Christ in us, to “lose our soul.”

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire [“by the [ fiery] word”-Eph.5:26]:

Luk 12:49 I am come to send [ baptism with] fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled [“begin at the house of God”]?

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

As for when we are saved, we need to let Christ tell us when that is accomplished. Eph 2:8 is a statement of what the process is. It is already true that “by grace are ye saved through faith.” But that is not in contradiction to any other statement in God’s Word. It certainly does not contradict this verse of scripture:

Mat 22:14 For many are called [“and anon with joy receive the Word”], but few are chosen.

And neither does it disagree with this verse of God’s Word:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

If we are in Christ, we “die daily.” In the mean time it behooves us all to remember this verse and to be vigilant and patient.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Believing means to be living. The ten- second sinner’s prayer is a lie of the Adversary. Those who are truly “in Christ” will produce the “fruit of the spirit.” Look at this verse:

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

So, here is how we “believe unto salvation:”

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing [“enduring to the end”] seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Salvation is” by grace through faith… Created unto good works.” (Eph 2:8-10).

Be sure to read the paper Strong Delusion for an in depth understanding of what grace is.

I hope this helps you to see the dichotomy between what your pastor is teaching as contrasted with the doctrine of Christ. I pray that God will grant that you can say with Peter “We ought to obey God rather than man.”

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Don’t allow the Adversary to tell you that I am judging your minister. I don’t know the man. He is probably very sincere. But so are all who “believe a lie.” They really do “believe” that they are serving God as they kill their enemies. They really do believe that that they have the doctrine of Christ.

I pray that God gives you “eyes to see and ears to hear… the hidden things of the spirit.”

Mike