Mike,

Please note that I have listened to both videos which include my responses to both. I just wanted to share it with you. Here are the two videos in the order that I recently listened to them. I understand what he is trying to say, and I strongly disagree with much of what he is saying. Please listen to both of his videos.

Thanks,

B____

Hi B____

Thanks for sharing this with me. I listened to both videos, and it is obvious that this man’s idol of his heart (Eze 14:1-9) is the doctrine that Jesus did not exist before coming to this earth as the seed of David. I have encountered this doctrine in a Concordant minister, who broke with the Concordant teaching to teach this false doctrine.

Regardless of how many times I would show that Concordant minister the scriptures where Christ says “before Abraham was, I am”, that Concordant minister, just like the man making these videos, would always say it was all just in God’s mind. Christ, he would always affirm, did not really exist before coming in the flesh. He was just in God’s mind before that time.

God does in fact know us all before we were born:

Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Does the fact that God knows us all before we are born mean that Christ did not preexist? Absolutely not, because if foreknowledge was all that is involved then there would be no exceptions, and Christ would be just as us and this man’s false doctrine would be true. The only thing wrong with that doctrine is that there is one exception to the fact that no one in the flesh knew God before being created in a clay vessel, a body of flesh and blood, and that one exception is Christ:

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven,but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Here we have Christ’s own testimony that He and He alone had “come down from heaven” to be placed into this death realm to die for the sins of the world. That is what His Father sent Him down here to do, as Christ explains just four verses later:

Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Those words apply to no other human who has ever or will ever live, simply because no other human preexisted even though God did indeed know us all “in His mind” (Psa 139:16 ASV)

This is why we are told that Christ had to “empty Himself” of His spirit body to come down and dwell with and experience death with us:

Php 2:6  who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God something to seize and hold. 
Php 2:7  But he emptied himself, having taken a form of a bondman, having become in a likeness of men.  (ACV)

Christ went to great lengths to tell us that He, and He alone, preexisted. Here are but a couple of very clear examples, which we will mention again later in this discussion:

Joh 6:62  What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The maker of these videos will not admit that there is “one God the Father” and besides this “one God the Father” there is also Christ His “Son”, which “Son” is also called “the mighty God”:

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

These are all titles bestowed upon Christ by His Father. But none of these titles, which are given to Christ as He relates to us on this earth, mean that the Father has forfeited the power of His throne as “the one God, the Father”. This is all revealed to us in type in the story of Joseph being given power over all of Egypt, Egypt being the Biblical type of this world:

Gen 41:39  And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art: 
Gen 41:40  Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. 
Gen 41:41  And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. 

The “one God, the Father” has set Christ “over all the [world]”, and “only in the throne” is He greater than Christ “for it pleased the Father [that] in all things [Christ] should be given the preeminence”:

1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 
Col 1:17  And he [Christ] is before all things, and by him [Christ] all things consist. 
Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 
Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 

“Of… one God, the Father… by… one Lord Jesus Christ”. That is how the “one God the Father” wants us to see Him as He relates to His preexistent Son “by whom all things consist”. It is all so simply because “it pleased the Father that in [Christ] should all fulness dwell”.

This doctrine of Christ which teaches He is God is taken out of Psalm 82:6, and it was Jesus’ own defense for calling Himself the son of God:

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In every case in the New Testament where the word ‘god’ appears, whether it is capitalized or not, it is the Greek word ‘theos’, as the maker of these videos tells us. So the simple question is: will we agree with Christ that “[we] are gods, and will we agree with Christ that Jesus is God, as our Lord here declares?”

While we agree that Christ is not the ultimate God, the “one God, the Father” of 1Corinthians 6:8, we cannot agree with this man that the word ‘God’ is not applicable to Christ, and we certainly cannot agree with this man that Christ was not the Yahweh, the ‘I am’, of the Old Testament. This man makes the same mistake of turning the words ‘I Am’ into “the self-existing one”. Yahweh does not mean ‘self-existing’. Yahweh means ‘I Am’, and ‘I Am’ does not mean ‘I always have been’. Attempting to make ‘I Am’ into ‘I am self-existent’ is a straw tiger this man has bought into so he can deny that Christ preexisted. Preexistence is not self-existence, as he wants to make it appear.

I found it incredible that the man in these videos actually quoted Colossians 1 and again dismisses it all as being in God’s mind:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [in God’s mind???]
Col 1:16 For by him [in God’s mind???] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were [in God’s mind???] created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is [in God’s mind???] before all things, and by him [in God’s mind???] all things consist.

I will give you two sections of scripture I did not hear him mention:

Php 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God something to seize and hold.
Php 2:7 But he emptied himself, having taken a form of a bondman, having become in a likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And having been found in a form like a man, he lowered himself, having become obedient until death, even of death from a cross. (ACV)

KJV says “made Himself of no reputation”, but all the literal translations, and even the ACV gets it right. Christ “emptied Himself” of His body of spirit, and He “lowered Himself” to come into this death realm.

Another section of scripture He did not mention was:

Joh 17:5  And now, Father, glorify thou me with thyself with the glory that I had with thee before the world was. [What? Only in God’s mind??? That is what this man will probably say.]

If Christ is not Yahweh, why then did He tells us:

Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 

Jacob saw and heard and wrestled all night with Yahweh:

Gen 32:30  And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 

Moses spoke with Yahweh many times, and he, along with seventy of the elders of Israel, saw Yahweh’s shape:

Exo 24:1  And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD [Yahweh], thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off. 

Exo 24:9  Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 
Exo 24:10  And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Several other people also saw and spoke with Yahweh, and here in the New Testament Christ tells us no man ever heard the voice of or ever saw the shape of the Father. The only thing we can draw from that is that Christ Himself was the Yahweh, the LORD of the Old Testament.

If Christ did not preexist, then why is He telling us He “came down from heaven” and that His disciples will see him “ascend… where He was before”?

Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Joh 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himselfnbsp;that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

I heard none of this on either of those videos. I feel certain that I am preaching to the choir, but it doesn’t hurt to have these things repeated.

Let me know what you think.

Your fellow soldier who wants desperately to know God and Jesus Christ who the one God, the Father has sent:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 
Joh 17:4  I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 
Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 

Mike