Mike,

Thank you for your response.  I will rephrase the question about, “fivefold ministry”.  My question is if we are to come out of Babylon (church), then what does the scripture Eph 4:11-13 really mean and how are they (these gifts) supposed to be used?

:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Yes, I agree with you that you can have many gifts and yet be carnal, but I still don’t believe you can say that we should can the whole church; the religious system yes, but not the whole thing because some of it works.  I went to church yesterday, and I was edified in my spirit, so how can that be so bad, yes sometimes I am corrected and sometimes I am scolded and sometimes the whole thing (the people and the system annoy me but those instances always help me grow).  Going each week has helped me change into a more MATURE Christian as opposed to sitting home and not getting fed spiritually.

What is confusing for me is the fact that I know I have teaching gifts and prophetic gifts (dreams and visions, and I write prophetically and have had these gifts since a young child) and both pastors that I sit under, one teaching as you do and one teaching differently have both said that I am called to the ministry, full-time and that I am in preparation and truly it is in my heart.  I have not asked for this gift and as a matter of fact because of all the shaking and breaking that has been caused in my life I have asked the Lord to take it out of my heart if it is me that is putting it there, and it won’t go away.  I would love to be a normal 26 yr. old and raise my daughter and take care of my husband, household etc… (I do do all of that with all of my heart) but I still study all the time and this desire won’t go away.  They also have given me so many opportunities to preach etc. (also if I say forget it I am going to try to do something else like go back to school, etc… it seems like something always happens and the door shuts or someone will start prophesying over me concerning ministry).  If God has not called me to this then why is this happening?  I am not saying you are wrong, I just would like someone to explain then what is happening to me.

J____

Hi again J___,

I have never said to “can the whole church.” I have gone to great lengths to explain that the multitudes which came to hear Christ teach are like very same multitudes who come to Christ in the “historical orthodox Christian church” today. Christ spoke in their synagogues and in their temple. Even Christ told those people to do what the scribes and Pharisees said to do. He only warned against doing as they do. Israel learned all about the tabernacle and the priesthood and all of the offerings while they were still “in the wilderness.” I too, learned and am still learning as I am coming out of that wilderness.

If you are being edified in Babylon, which is the bondwoman wife of Abraham who brings forth the “son of the bondwoman” (Gal 4), then that is where you need to be at this time in your life. It is through this bondwoman that we all are “brought to Christ”. I too, was edified for many years while I was first a Pentecostal, then a member of the World Wide Church Of God, and then I participated in the Concordant Conferences. All were very edifying while I was in them. That was what I needed at that time. But then God opened my eyes to Matthew 13, John 8, 1 Corinthians 1 and 3 and Revelation 18:4:

Mat 13:10  And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11  He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. [to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven].

Joh 8:30  As he spake these words , many believed on him.

Just as “many” do today…

Joh 8:31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

There is a world of difference between simply being at Christ’s feet every Sunday morning and Wednesday night and being “a disciple indeed.” It is the difference in being able to “continue in My Word,” and being unable to “continue in My Word.” Millions hear Christ say to “love thine enemies.” Peter heard those words. And like all the unconverted “historical orthodox Christians” of today, Peter still took out a sword to kill his enemies. Now pay very close attention to what Christ has to say to “those Jews which believed on Him,” because those Jews are typical of the multitudes of Christians who today “believe on Him:”

Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33  They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

Just as so many “historical orthodox Christians” say today; ‘I am Abraham’s spiritual seed and I am not a slave in Babylon.’

Joh 8:34  Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35  And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36  If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37  I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

‘I know you are Abraham’s seed and at the same time you are of your Father the devil. You say you love me but you will not do the things I say.’

Joh 8:38  I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41  Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43  Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Why can’t orthodox Christians understand Christ’s parables to this very day? For the very same reason the multitudes in Matthew 13 could not hear. “It is not given to them…” to understand… the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.” “Ye cannot hear my word.”

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

So this is whence God’s people all come. Far be it from me ever to say “can the whole church.” Rather, what I do say is ‘don’t stay a child’ under the schoolmaster, tutors and governors of the bondwoman wife, but rather graduate from the six doctrines mentioned in Heb 6:1 into the doctrines to be learned only by “the son of the free woman” (Gal 4).

As long as God does not give us ears to hear His Word, we “cannot hear my word.” And as long as that is the case, we are all “of our father the devil.”

The “seed of the serpent… of your father the devil” are those who “believe on Christ,” but “cannot hear my word.” And that is “historical orthodox Christianity” today. They tell you to love your enemy, and with the same breath tell you to kill your enemies. They tell you God is love, and with the same breath tell you He will burn people in hell for eternity. They say they love God, but they will not do as He says:

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47  Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49  But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

1Co 1 and 3 are simply confirmation of this truth.

Now what are “these sayings of mine”? They are Christ’s commandments. Don’t tell me that you love Christ if you cannot and will not “keep His commandments.”

1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

“Not grievous” does not contradict the fact that if we follow Christ’s commandments we “shall be hated of all men… and must enter the kingdom of heaven through much tribulation.”

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Act 14:22  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

“All men” means those Christians who “cannot receive my word.” It was those who “believed on him” who wanted to kill him at that time. It is those who “believe on Him” today who want his elect dead.

1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Now if the love of God is to “keep His commandments” which will cause us to be “hated of all men,” Just what are those commandments? I have mentioned a few of them above, but here is but one more which bears on all the prophesies you have been having prophesied over you. “Try the spirits.”

1Co 14:34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36  What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Do you “think yourself spiritual”? If you do, “let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the [not grievous] commandments of the Lord.”

This is but one of many scriptures bearing on this subject of women becoming teachers and ministers in the church. They are all very clear and they all agree:

1Ti 2:8  I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
1Ti 2:9  In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10  But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach , nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

“For Adam was first formed, then Eve?” What’s the point?

I hope this is of some help to you as you struggle with the questions you have been asking.

Mike