Begotten and Born

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Good morning R____,
I certainly agree with every verse quoted above. What I want to avoid is making the mistake I made before of saying we are completed and matured in this life. Being “born again” is a process as you have underlined the word below. ‘Begettal’ is an English word, which is used to separate the time of conception in the womb from the remainder of our lives. This separation is used by many today to separate a fetus from a human, arguing that the fetus has never drawn a breath, and has never partaken of the breath of life and is therefore not a living human being. I do not see this distinction made in scripture. The word translated ‘begotten’ is the same word translated ‘born.’ I do see clearly a distinction made between being a baby and an older child, but neither are considered completed except in down payment form. Being completed, as mature in spirit, requires the forfeiting of this body of flesh. When Paul says:

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

… he is not contradicting the fact that he is not yet complete:

Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [ this] one thing [ I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

What that mark is was made clear in the previous verses:

Php 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

And so the ‘dying’, just like the ‘attaining unto the resurrection of the dead,’ is an ongoing process which is not completed as long as we are in “the body of this death.”
But while we are still in “the body of this death,” and actually as a result of having “the body of this death,” we are being transformed through the impregnation of the holy spirit of God by Christ into a “born again” child of God. As your brother in this process, I am not going to treat you as a “yet carnal… babe [ nepios] in Christ,” unless that is what you are. “Carnal” means ‘after the flesh,’ and when Paul says…:

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

… he is not saying that from now on we will not bother trying the spirits to see whether they are of God. On the contrary, he is saying that he is trying the spirits to see who is and who is not “after the flesh.”

2Co 5:15  And [ that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Paul is saying that he no longer knows those who “live unto themselves.” Those who “live unto themselves” are those who know Christ only as a man in the flesh instead of the resurrected life he lived. To Christ His physical death on the physical cross came only after  He had already offered his life up on the cross:

Mar 10:21  Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Christ had “taken up the cross” long before he carried its outward symbol of death. Nothing physical is real or lasting, and that includes physical life and physical death. Christ did not come to destroy physical death. He came to destroy the death of  “the devil and his angels… the lake of fire which is the second death.”
Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
When the lake of fire has consumed all there is to consume then it will cease to be a ‘lake of fire.’ The “fire and brimstone” are the word of God and those who have and are that word. When all are brought to having that word of God in their hearts and mind, then, and not until that time, death is destroyed and has no sting.
All of this is, was and will be true right up to the time that the last person, including Satan and his angels, comes forth of that “lake of fire which is the second death” as a “new creature.”

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The fact that we are “now sons of God” and have “become a man and have put away childish things” does not translate into perfection while in this flesh. What it translates into is, we now have dominion over sin in our lives and have all these things being sealed in the spirit, which is “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believe d, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

“Until the redemption?” Are we not already redeemed in Christ? Are we not already the sons of God?

Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Yes, we are being redeemed even now. But it is all “the earnest of our inheritance.” It is not, at this time, “the purchased possession.” We are being born even now. When Paul tells the Galatians:

Gal 4:19  My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

He is not saying that he expects and hopes that in a few days, weeks, months or years that he thinks and hopes that they will be past the need for him to “travail in birth” for them. Yes, he is admonishing them for their unstable, childish tendency to be swept away by false doctrines, but the fact that any of us get beyond that point does not mean that we are no longer in need of Christ Himself “travailing in birth again” for us all:

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons [ Strong’s #5702 – uihos] of God.

So are we born again now, or are we not? The answer is, yes, we are born again. But it is in “the earnest of our inheritance.” Again I cannot find any difference in the scriptures, between being “begotten” and being born:

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Has He not already ‘appeared’ to those who have dethroned the man of sin? Has he not destroyed that man of sin with the brightness of His coming? Are we not ‘begotten of the Father?’ Are we not ‘born again?’ The answer to all these questions is, yes, we are born again and begotten of the Father. Christ has appeared to His elect, dethroned the man of sin and destroyed him with the brightness of His coming. But none of this changes the fact that ” it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” because all these things are true in “the earnest of the inheritance, until the redemption of the purchased possession…” which will then be described as thus:

Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water [ flesh] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8  T he wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit .

And like Nicodemus, we all say:

Joh 3:9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Christ goes on to tell Nicodemus:

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Are not we “seated with Christ in the heavens?” Again, yes, we are, in “the earnest of the inheritance, until the redemption of the purchased possession.”
So there is a distinction between ‘the earnest of the inheritance’ and the ‘redemption of the purchased possession.’ But the earnest of the inheritance is not described as begettal as opposed to birth, as we think of those English words. Everything we are experiencing in this life is the pains of being born again:

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [ the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Is all of this true only for those who are not now being chosen to be sons of God? Or is it not also true for God’s firstfruits?

Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

If we are the adoption, then why are we “waiting for the adoption?” It is because we are the adoption in “the earnest of the spirit” and not in “the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Rom 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25  But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

So the actual birth, the redemption of the purchased possession, is yet to come because the “whole creation” is even now suffering the pains of birth:

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 We ourselves are “waiting for… the redemption of our body… the redemption of the purchased possession.” We are awaiting the resurrection of the dead. That is “the redemption of our body… the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten [ Strong’s #3439 – monogene s] Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

G3439
monogene s
Total KJV Occurrences: 16
only, 9
Luk 7:12, Luk 8:42, Luk 9:38, Joh 1:14, Joh 1:18, Joh 3:16, Joh 3:18, Heb 11:17, 1Jn 4:9
begotten, 6
Joh 1:14, Joh 1:18, Joh 3:16, Joh 3:18, Heb 11:17, 1Jn 4:9
child, 1
Luk 9:38
Apparently this word appears only 9 times since the entries for the words ‘begotten’ and ‘child’ are all duplicated under the word ‘only.’ Here is Strong’s definitions and the words from which this word is contracted.
G3439
monogene s
mon- og- en- ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: – only (begotten, child).

Mat 2:1  Now when Jesus was born [ Strong’s #1080 – gennao] in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Jesus certainly was not ‘begotten’ as we use that word, in Bethlehm. That is where he was ‘born.’ And yet this word is most often translated ‘begat’ 42 times, and ‘begotten’ 7.
G1080
gennao
Total KJV Occurrences: 98
begat, 42
Mat 1:1-16 (40), Act_7:8, Act_7:29, 1Jn_5:1
born, 39
Mat_1:16, Mat_2:1, Mat_2:4, Mat_19:12, Mat_26:24, Mar_14:21, Luk_1:35, Joh_1:13, Joh_3:3-8 (8), Joh_8:41, Joh_9:2, Joh_9:19-20 (2), Joh_9:32, Joh_9:34, Joh_16:21, Joh_18:37, Act_2:8, Act_7:20, Act_22:3, Act_22:28, Rom_9:11, Gal_4:23, Gal_4:29, Heb_11:23, 1Jn_2:29, 1Jn_3:9 (2), 1Jn_4:7, 1Jn_5:1, 1Jn_5:4, 1Jn_5:18
begotten, 7
Act_13:33, 1Co_4:15, Phm_1:10, Heb_5:5 (2), 1Jn_5:1, 1Jn_5:18
bare, 1
Luk_23:29
bear, 1
Luk_1:13
brought, 1
Luk_1:57
conceived, 1
Mat_1:20
delivered, 1
Joh_16:20-21 (2)
forth, 1
Luk_1:57
gender, 1
2Ti_2:23
gendereth, 1
Gal_4:23-24 (2)
made, 1
2Pe_2:12
sprang, 1
Heb_11:12 (2)
Here is a verse with ‘born, begat and begotten’ all in one verse and all from the same Greek word:

1Jn 5:1  Whosoever3956 believeth4100 that3754 Jesus2424 is2076 the3588 Christ5547 is born1080 of1537 God:2316 and2532 every one3956 that loveth25 him that begat1080 loveth25 him also that is begotten1080 , 2532 of1537 him.846

I hope this helps you to see why birth and begettal are one and the same in scripture.
Finally you ask:

Joh 14:26  But the Comforter [ Greek – parakleetos], which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [ even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The comforter which is the holy spirit is the spirit of truth and is sent from the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Where does this spirit have its origins? It “proceeds from the Father.” So it is the Father’s spirit.

Mat 10:20  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

What is Christ’s relationship to the holy spirit?

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [ it] unto you.

What is Christ talking about when He says “he shall receive of mine and shall show it unto you?” Weren’t we just told that “the spirit of your Father… speaks in you?” Yes, the holy spirit “proceeds from the Father…” it is “the spirit of your Father,” and “He receives of mine and will show it unto you.” How can all of this be so? Here is how the holy spirit which proceeds from the Father, is the comforter, is the spirit of Truth and yet “shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear that shall he speak” is possible:

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate [ Greek – parakleetos – comforter] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

“A parakleetos… Jesus Christ the righteous.” And how is this possible? Here is how Jesus can be and is called a comforter:

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [ it] unto you.

While we struggle to keep Christ and His Father separated, they themselves have no such problem. Everything God does is “of God… by Christ.” ” All things that the Father hath are mine:”
I hope this has helped to clear up ‘What is the relationship between Christ, “the spirit of your Father,” and the Father?’ One day we will “see the Father plainly. When that day finally comes, this is what we will ‘see:’

Joh 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Christ is “in my Father.”  He also tells us “I [ am] in you.”  But He adds, “Ye [ are] in Me.” Where does that put us? It puts us in a very secure and stable position. We are in Christ who is in His Father. What more could we want?

Rom 8:37  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I hope this helps to clear up who Christ is in relation to the holy spirit which proceeds out from the Father. I hope you can see that because “The Father has given all that He has to the Son,” that therefore the Son can call the holy spirit ‘mine’, and can even call the holy spirit which is the parakleetos, “an advocate [ parakleetos], Jesus Christ the righteous.”
Mike >

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