Hello Mr. Vinson,

I greatly appreciate your work. Do you have anything condensed, that deals with Adam being a sinner before the fall. How can it be proved that he was a sinner before he ate of the tree?

I mentioned this at a group that I go to, and it caused quite a stir. Where did the teaching of Adam being perfect before the fall come from? How can it be disproved? Those with whom I’m speaking are saying God created Adam good or perfect; not a sinner.

I have been reading through the website and it’s been powerful – life changing.

Thanks

D____

Hi D____,

I am pleased that you appreciate our efforts. The information you want is in a rather lengthy exchange I had with a reader about the origins of the doctrine of the trinity. The letter centers around the writing of William Law. Law believed that the trinity shows how far we have fallen. The fall of man is nowhere mentioned anywhere in scripture because all the writers of God’s word knew that “the vessel of clay… was marred in the hand of the Potter.”

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul agrees with Jeremiah:

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly [ Not by Adam’s ‘free’ will], but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,

The proof you seek is to be found in understanding of the Truth of 1Jn 2:16.

1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Eve, and Adam with her, committed all these sins before she ever touched the tree.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food [ The lust of the flesh], and that it was pleasant to the eyes [ lust of the eyes], and a tree to be desired to make one wise [ The pride of life], she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Surely John had Gen 3:6 in mind when he wrote 1Jn 2:16. Before Eve ever touched the tree her “made- subject- to- vanity” nature was already working in her to show her the fact that her Creator had formed her naked and of the corruptible dust. Being made “very good” had no goodness at all by reason of that which excels; “the new man.”

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious [ The first “marred ” Adam] had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth [ The second Adam]

While this is a verse contrasting the law of Moses with the law of the spirit, it nevertheless makes the point inasmuch as the tree of the knowledge is nothing more than a type of the law of Moses.

Rom 7:7 … I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I cannot rewrite that paper, so just go to Archive 6, scroll down to Free Moral Agency, The Fall Of Man, And The Trinity.

You ask:

Where did the teaching of Adam being perfect before the fall come from? How can it be disproved? Those with whom I’m speaking are saying God created Adam good or perfect; not a sinner.

The answer to that question is that since Eve committed “all [ sin] that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life” before she ever touched the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and since she was a “vessel of clay… marred in the Potter’s hand” and since she was “made… of the dust of the earth” and since she was “shapen in iniquity” and since she was “made subject to vanity, not [ because of any supposed self] willingly but by reason of Him who subjected the same in hope;” Since all these scriptures agree that man was “made to be sin,” it should therefore become obvious that man had nowhere to ‘fall.’ He never was in the kingdom of heaven. He never had eaten of the tree of life, and corruptible flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God to begin with.

Be sure to read that letter on Free Moral Agency, The Fall of Man, and The Trinity. Those three teachings comprise a ‘trinity’ of lies and false doctrines which all originated from the mouth of the serpent right there in Eden.

Mike