Hey Brother Mike,

It’s kind of hard to explain my question, so bear with me. I read a preacher saying “Sin and death” invaded nothing. Sin and death are the very meaning of “marred in the Potter’s hand.” Then another teacher I read says this,

We know from Scripture that God “…creates EVIL…” (Isa. 45:7), but did He also create man’s heart in a “desperately wicked” state? No, He did not. God did not FORCE upon man, at creation, a” desperately WICKED” heart. Let’s read this verse from the Jewish Publication Society, “The heart is deceitful above all things, And it is EXCEEDING WEAK—who can know it.” God did not create man’s heart “desperately wicked” as the KJV suggest, but rather He did create the human heart, “exceeding WEAK.” The seat of emotions and desires is the HEART. And God made the heart “exceeding WEAK.” Man did not sin because he “freely willed” to sin, but because his heart was so exceedingly WEAK. That is why it takes next to nothing to persuade the heart of man to DESIRE SIN.

Do you see where I’m going with my question? If “Sin and Death” invaded nothing, then is one saying that Adam and Eve were created in Sin?  If they were created in “Sin and Death, then how was their heart anything but EXCEEDINGLY WICKED?  Were they created in Sin or were they not? It seems like he was saying that God did not create man in Sin, but he created their heart exceedingly weak, and that is what caused them to Sin. Marred is defined as corrupt, destroy, waste, and perish. I can understand that they were created in Death, but if they were created in Sin, then their heart really was exceedingly wicked and sinful at creation. How can anyone say they were created in Sin, but that Sin wasn’t forced upon them? I think you get my question. Christ also had corruptible marred flesh, and yet he didn’t sin. It seems like the difference between Christ and Adam is that Adam had a weak heart that caused him to sin after creation.

I hope I explained this well. Thank you for your comments.

J____

Hi J____,
What the minister you quoted says about the words ‘desperately wicked in Jer 17:9 is true.

Jer 17:9  The heart [ is] deceitful above all [ things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

But to suggest that “the heart” was not “conceived in sin,” but was rather “persuaded to desire sin,” is simply contrary to the sum of God’s Word.
Every sin in the world is contained in these three sins:

1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

“All that is in the world” is shown in the actions of the first man and woman:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

There it is, all three sins. “Good for food = the lust of the flesh.” “Pleasant to the eyes = the lust of the eyes.” “To be desired to make one wise = the pride of life… all that is in the world.”
That is how Adam was created and Eve came out of Adam, just as did King David, the prophet Jeremiah and you and I.
You say, “Marred is defined as, corrupt, destroy, waste, and perish.” So “the vessel of clay was [ corrupt, being destroyed, wasted and perishing] in the hand of the Potter.”
Now if the meaning of the word sin is “to miss the mark,” and that is the definition of sin, and if “the mark” is a “glorified spiritual body which has had all the sin burned out of it, and it has been purified by the flaming words that proceed out of the mouth of God, and it is conformed the image Christ,” then we must conclude that the first Adam was created in such a manner as to miss that mark by a country mile.
I will only give you scriptures and let the holy spirit do its work in you. “The sum of thy word is Truth… [ and] The words I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life,” and all I do is to quote scripture:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [ how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Twice Paul repeats that God has created a law which requires that flesh must sin. Twice in these few verses he repeats “It is no more I that do it but sin that dwells in me… that is in my flesh.” Adam was created “marred in the Potter’s hand,” utterly and incurably corrupt and dying. “In me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing.” The reason for that is that we are all “in Adam.”
Why was not Adam designed to inherit the kingdom of heaven in a body of flesh? Why was he “shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin?” Why was he “marred in the Potter’s hand?” Here is the reason he was so designed in the Potter’s hand:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 T he first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 A nd as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

“Earth and earthy” are “out of the ground.” Adam was created “out of the ground because he was a mere seed that had to “fall into the ground and die” to the mind of “the first Adam” in order to be resurrected into the mind of “the last Adam.” Adam was a mere seed that “was sown a natural body.” “The first Adam”, deliberately and by design, missed the mark of and was but a figure or type of “the last Adam.”

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The f irst man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The fact that the tree of life itself came “out of the ground” tells us that Christ’s flesh was the same as ours. If it were not, then there would have been nothing for Christ to “overcome.” But Christ “was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin,”  and He did “overcome the world” of Adam which was in His body of corruptible flesh.

Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.

If Christ’s body had been left in the grave, it would have corrupted as any other body of flesh. But God did not leave it in hades. Nevertheless it was a body of the exact same flesh that we have:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [ pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Both Christ and Adam were given bodies of flesh that had come out of the dust of the ground, and they were both tempted as we are. The “earthy” Adam succumbed to the temptation and transgressed his Father’s words, and the “heavenly” Adam resisted the temptation and was “perfected the third day.”

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [ there is] none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Christ knew what was His body of flesh. Whether we agree with Him or not, this is His own conclusion about what was needed to be perfected. This is what He said as He was on His way up to Jerusalem to be crucified:

Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…” not even the flesh of Christ.
Here is how Strong’s defines the word translated ‘desperately wicked’ in Jer 17:9.
H605
‘a nash
aw- nash’
A primitive root; to be frail, feeble, or (figuratively) melancholy: – desperate (- ly wicked), incurable, sick, woeful.

But never trust either Concordances or Commentaries. Go to every entry of every word in question and see with your own “eyes that see and ears that hear,” if indeed you have been so gifted, and see how the spirit inspired that word to be used. Here are all the verses in which that word appears, as listed in the King James Concordance on e- sword.

H605
‘a nash
Total KJV Occurrences: 11
incurable, 5
Job_34:6, Jer_15:18, Jer_30:12, Jer_30:15, Mic_1:9
desperate, 1
Isa_17:11
desperately, 1
Jer_17:9
friends, 1
Jer_38:22
sick, 1
2Sa_12:15
wicked, 1
Jer_17:9
woeful, 1
Jer_17:16
Read the verses and see what the sum of God’s word reveal about this word. Adam was created in an incurable condition which demands that he fall back into the ground and die.

Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Life comes “through death.”

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Read all the verses referenced above, and let the sum of God’s spirit do the math.
Your brother in Christ.
Mike