[Study Aired June 11, 2024]

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. 

In Romans 14:13-23, Paul continues his discussion on how believers should relate to each other amid differing personal convictions, using dietary practices as an example. This passage fits into the larger context of Romans, where Paul lays out the foundations of Christian faith, including themes of sin, salvation, grace, and righteous living.

In Romans chapters 1-11, Paul presents the universal need for salvation, the role of faith, and the assurance of God’s love. In chapters 12-14, he transitions to practical instructions for living out this faith as the body of Christ. By Romans 14, he focuses on handling differences in outward matters.

Paul admonishes believers to stop judging each other over disputable matters and instead ensure they do not cause others to stumble (Romans 14:13). He asserts that while no food is inherently unclean, if someone believes it is, then for them, it is unclean (Rom 14:14). This aligns with his earlier teachings on the observance of days (Rom 14:5).

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 

Paul emphasizes that if eating certain foods causes a fellow believer distress, one is not acting in love. The spiritual well-being of others should take precedence over personal liberty (Romans 14:15, 20). The kingdom of God is about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, not about external rituals like eating and drinking (Romans 14:17).

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Believers are encouraged to pursue actions that promote peace and mutual edification, ensuring their behaviors do not harm others’ faith (Romans 14:19). Paul advises that it is better to abstain from certain practices if they cause others to stumble, reinforcing the principle of love over liberty (Romans 14:21).

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul underscores that actions must be rooted in faith: “for whatsoever is not of faith is sin” (Romans 14:23). This means any action taken with doubt or against one’s conscience is sinful, as it is not done in faith. This principle aligns with Paul’s broader message in Romans that true righteousness comes from faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

In Mark 7:18-19 Jesus teaches that external things do not defile a person. 

Mar 7:18-19 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

In Acts 10:13-15 Peter’s vision emphasizes that God has made all foods clean. 

Act 10:13-15 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 

This vision signifies a shift from Jewish laws to a new understanding of purity in Christ.

In 1 Corinthians 8:8-9 Paul discusses food offered to idols and the importance of not causing others to stumble.

1Co 8:8-9 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

This passage highlights the principle that food itself is neutral, but the impact on others’ consciences matters.

In Colossians 2:16-17 Paul warns against being judged based on dietary laws and days, stating these are shadows of the spirit. 

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Here, dietary practices and days are described as part of the old covenant, now fulfilled in Christ.

These verses collectively demonstrate that, in the New Testament, dietary practices and days are redefined through the lens of faith in Christ. They emphasize that food itself does not determine one’s spiritual standing, but that the principles of love, respect for others’ consciences, and gratitude are paramount.

Paul is addressing both those who are strong in faith and those who are weak in faith, but his primary focus is on instructing the strong in faith on how to interact with and accommodate those who are weak in faith. The strong in faith are called to use their discernment responsibly and to act in love, avoiding causing others to stumble.

Paul acknowledges the existence of different levels of faith within the body of Christ. Those who are strong in faith understand that nothing is unclean in itself and have freedom to eat anything, while those who are weak in faith might consider certain foods unclean due to their conscience or background.

“Doubtful disputations” in Romans 14:1 refers to disagreements or debates concerning matters of personal conviction. These disputes often revolve around issues such as secular practices or the observance of specific days, which can vary among believers due to their diverse backgrounds and levels of faith.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

In Romans 14:13-23, Paul addresses how we should handle these “doubtful disputations” in a way that promotes unity within the body of Christ. This fits with my previous conclusion that Paul’s primary focus is on instructing the strong in faith to act considerately towards those who are weak in faith. Here’s how the concept of “doubtful disputations” interacts with that conclusion:

Avoiding Judgment on Disputable Matters: Paul encourages us to welcome those who are weak in faith with the qualifier of “but not to doubtful disputations” (Rom 14:1). This means accepting one another at each other’s level of faith. In the context of Romans 14:13-23, this reinforces the call to judge others based on their current level of faith.

Promoting Peace and Mutual Edification: Paul’s urging to pursue what makes for peace and mutual edification (Romans 14:19) directly counters the divisiveness that “doubtful disputations” can cause. By focusing on building one another up rather than debating disputable matters, we can foster a more unified fellowship.

Acting in Love and Avoiding Stumbling Blocks: The strong in faith are called to act in love and not to use their liberty in a way that causes others to stumble (Romans 14:15, 20). Engaging in “doubtful disputations” from those that are weak in faith can become a stumbling block. Paul’s guidance helps the strong in faith to prioritize the spiritual well-being of others over winning arguments or asserting their freedom. An example of this would be those that are weak in faith may still be participating in holiday celebrations. Those strong in faith are not to have dominion over their faith but are helpers of joy. As the weak mature in Christ the faith of the strong are transferred to the weak.

2Co 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

Faith and Personal Conviction: Paul’s principle that “whatsoever is not of faith is sin” (Rom 14:23) emphasizes the importance of acting according to one’s own faith and convictions. Disputations over doubtful matters can lead individuals to act contrary to their beliefs, which Paul identifies as sinful. Thus, avoiding such disputes helps believers maintain a clear conscience before God.

In summary, “doubtful disputations” are discouraged because they can lead to judgment, distress, and division within the body. Paul’s instructions in Romans 14:13-23, which are aimed particularly at the strong in faith, emphasize the importance of acting in love and prioritizing peace and mutual edification. This approach helps prevent the negative impacts of engaging in disputes.

1 Corinthians 2:15 states, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” 

This verse suggests that a spiritually mature person, guided by the Holy Spirit, has the discernment to evaluate all things rightly and is not subject to judgment by those who lack spiritual understanding.

To understand how this verse interacts with the discussion of “doubtful disputations” in Romans 14, we need to consider the context and the nature of the judgments being referred to in both passages.

Spiritual Discernment vs. Judging Others: In 1 Corinthians 2:15, Paul speaks of the spiritual person’s ability to discern and understand deeper spiritual truths because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This discernment is different from the judgment or criticism Paul warns against in Romans 14. In Romans, the emphasis is to not pass judgment on others due to their level of faith. The spiritual judgment in 1 Corinthians 2:15 is about discerning truth and living in alignment with God’s will, rather than critiquing fellow believers.

Those who are spiritually mature (“he that is spiritual”) are expected to exercise their discernment responsibly. In the context of Romans 14, this means the strong in faith should use their spiritual maturity to foster peace to avoid causing others to stumble. The spiritually mature should understand that their freedom in Christ comes with the responsibility to act in love and consideration for the weaker believers.

The second part of 1 Corinthians 2:15, “yet he himself is judged of no man,” emphasizes that the spiritual person is not subject to the judgments of those that are weak in the faith because their understanding has matured. This complements Romans 14, where the strong in faith are encouraged to refrain from judging those that are lacking faith because of immaturity. They are to recognize that ultimate judgment belongs to God and is based on the heart and faith, not on external practices.

In conclusion, 1 Corinthians 2:15 supports the idea that spiritually mature believers should use their discernment to promote unity and avoid causing division. This spiritual judgment should guide them to act towards others, in line with Paul’s teachings in Romans 14:13-23. The verse underscores the principle that true spiritual discernment leads to actions that build up the body rather than engaging in “doubtful disputations” with those that are weak which can harm the weak believers’ faith.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 

Gospels In Harmony – Part 140, Feed My Lambs and My Sheep

John 21:15-25

[Study Aired May 23, 2023]

John 21:10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
John 21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
John 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
John 21:13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. 
John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
John 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. 
John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
John 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

After the miraculous catch of fish, Jesus instructs His disciples to bring some of the fish they caught. This signifies the abundance of provision that comes from following Christ. The elect are called to bring to others the spiritual nourishment we have received.

John 21:15: So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

Jesus questions Peter’s love for Him, and Peter affirms his love. In response, Jesus instructs Peter to, “Feed my lambs.” This command signifies our duty to care for and nurture new believers, those who are young and vulnerable in their faith.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

1Co 3:1-2 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

1Th 2:7-8 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children: So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

Tit 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These verses emphasize the need to supply care, guidance, and nurturing to young believers, who are likened to newborn babies or children in the faith. It is essential to feed them with the “milk” of God’s Word, protect them from harm, and set an example of love and godliness. It is the responsibility of mature believers to teach, mentor, and support younger believers in their spiritual growth and development. The lambs feed on milk until the time of weaning is complete.

John 21:16: He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Jesus repeats His question, and Peter again confirms his love. Jesus then commands Peter to, “Feed my sheep.” This broader instruction extends to all maturing believers, emphasizing the responsibility to care for and supply spiritual nourishment to the entire flock of God’s people.

Eph 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Gal 6:1-2 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

The above verses give guidance on how to care for a maturing Christian, including equipping, exhorting, restoring, supporting, comforting, edifying, and utilizing our spiritual gifts to serve one another. They emphasize the importance of fellowship, encouragement, and the shared responsibility to nurture the spiritual growth of believers.

John 21:17: He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Jesus asks Peter for the third time if he loves Him, and Peter responds in the affirmative once again. This repetition highlights the significance of the command and shows the depth of Peter’s love and commitment. Jesus reaffirms His command to Peter, emphasizing the importance of tending to and caring for His sheep.

The duty to “feed my sheep” extends beyond Peter and applies to all the elect. As the elect, we are called to nurture and feed fellow believers, supplying spiritual guidance, support, and encouragement. This duty involves teaching, mentoring, and serving one another, just as a shepherd tends to the needs of the flock.

Rom 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
John 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Being the called and chosen we will mature in faith; we are called to surrender our own will and rely on Christ to guide and lead us.

When Jesus speaks of Peter stretching forth his hands and being carried where he would not choose to go, it symbolizes the surrender of one’s own desires and preferences to follow God’s will. It represents a shift from self-reliance to dependence on Christ, acknowledging His authority and guidance in our lives.

As we grow in spiritual maturity, we learn to trust in God’s wisdom and direction, even when it may lead us outside our comfort zones or along paths we would not have chosen for ourselves. This surrender and dependence on Christ gives Him the opportunity to shape and mold our lives according to His divine plan. This is “signifying by what death he should glorify God.”

Pro 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

As we mature in our faith, we are called and chosen to surrender our will and depend on Christ. We are given a need for trust, self-denial, taking up our cross, and conforming to God’s will rather than our own desires. This is the death of the old man.

John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
John 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Peter will come to learn, as we all must, that Christ causes us both to die and live. We are commanded to feed the lambs and the sheep. We feed them by living the life of Christ and dying to self.

In conclusion, as the elect, we are entrusted with the duty to “feed my lamb and my sheep”. This encompasses caring for believers at different stages of their walk in faith, nurturing their spiritual growth, and providing them with the nourishment of God’s Word and the love of Christ. Through our love, guidance, and service, we fulfill our responsibility to tend to the flock of God, proving the love of Christ and advancing His Kingdom.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.

Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.

Heb 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment.

Hi Mike,

Another quick question if you don’t mind. If a man or woman is about 80 years of age when they die, and about six months before they die, they become aware of the milk doctrines of Jesus Christ, does this mean they will be in the first resurrection? I know you might not be able to answer this because its up to God, but I just wanted your opinion. Because although they have endured to the end with life itself, would they be qualified to bring the rest of humanity to Christ through the lake of fire only knowing what they have known for six months? Get back to me if you can, because I understand you’re a busy man, and thanks in advance.

S____

Hi again S____,

You ask if an 80 year old person can learn the milk doctrines and be qualified to rule with Christ during the millennium. The answer to that question, as you pose it is absolutely not! All who use milk are unskillful in the word of righteousness.

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

What is the one thing we know about “babes in Christ”? It was “babes in Christ” who wanted to kill Him, simply because even though they believed on Him, they were “yet carnal”.

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Those who will be found worthy to be in that first resurrection will have “had their senses exercised to know good and evil”. They will not be “carnal… babes in Christ” who still are on “milk” doctrines and cannot yet receive “strong meat”.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

You are in my prayers. I pray God will grant you to understand that God loves you and will redeem you and his entire creation.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Your brother who is praying for you.
Mike>

Mike,

In looking over this website, I see nothing concerning UNIVERSAL SALVATION. Is that because you don’t believe God wills that ALL be saved? Just what is a carnal babe in Christ?

K____

Hi K____,

Thank you for your question, but it indicates that you haven’t read much on this site at all. Universal salvation is spoken of throughout this site, but babes in Christ want to hear of nothing but Christ and Him crucified. This site, like all of Paul’s epistles, goes beyond the milk of God’s Word which milk includes the salvation of all which Paul preached to the Corinthians.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you [“carnal… babes in Christ”, 1Co3:1-4], save Jesus Christ, and him crucified [ for all… universal salvation].
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [ even] as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [ to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [ am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

There is plenty on iswasandwillbe. com about universal salvation. “Howbeit we speak wisdom among those who are being perfected”. There are those who call themselves ‘Pauline Christians’, who speak of nothing but grace, as if ‘grace’ were nothing more than a dead noun, defined as “unmerited pardon”. Such people simply cannot accept the strong meat of “the mystery, even the hidden wisdom.” That is why they call themselves “Pauline Christians,” just as Paul himself said “carnal babes in Christ” would always do. The doctrine of universal salvation is the doctrine Paul preached to these “carnal babes in Christ”.
There is plenty on this site about the milk of God’s Word, but this site also concerns itself with the “strong meat” of the Word of God. It is this same apostle who wrote much of the “strong meat” which is quoted on this site. Some of that “strong meat” is to be found in verses like these, which Paul spake “among them who are being perfected”.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Do you believe like the apostle Paul, that you should be “filling up in our flesh what is behind of the afflictions of the Christ”? After all, isn’t that what “the mystery” is? Is it not “Christ in you, the hope of glory”? If indeed, Christ is in you, will you not fill up His afflictions and suffer with Him, just as He Himself suffered? Is that not the very function of grace, according to this very same apostle Paul?

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching [ Greek – paideuo, chastening] us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint- heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

“Denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, living soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world” is simply too much “strong meat” for “carnal babes in Christ who want to hear of nothing but the milk of universal salvation. There is plenty of the milk of God’s Word on this site, but you will note that we go beyond the milk, and we “constantly affirm that we who believe ought to forsake ungodliness and worldly lusts, and be careful to maintain good works“.

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

That is a verse of God’s Word which is seldom, if ever, mentioned in “Pauline Christian” congregations.
So I hope you will continue to “look over this site”. You will find no site on the web which teaches the total sovereignty of God any more than does this site. God being sovereign, He is obligated to redeem that which He created in a marred, sinful state. Indeed, that is the very purpose for starting with such inferior materials.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [ the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

There is no vote taken either to be “in Adam” or “in Christ”. It is all “His workmanship”.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,

I have a question about the application of God’s word. My parents were called out of the church many years ago. They have both tasted of God’s greatness in their lives, and I do not view what I am going to share with you as anything except being of God. Recently my Dad has been starting back into Egypt/ Babylon/ Sodom, and has told my mother he would like to go back to church. My mother protests. I told her because she is married to him, that she honors Christ by obeying her husband. I know there is a verse in Psalms that shows that God honors (maybe the wrong word here) one who keeps his word even when that vow contradicts God’s own word, I think God honors it by burning the whole thing up. My question starts here… How does my mother walk according to the spirit?

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

… and how do we compare spiritual with spiritual…

Gen 3:16  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Doesn’t this verse typify the body of Christ?

And is comparing spiritual with spiritual to say that these verses (1Ti 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. (12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.) apply to the “spiritually” weak and not physical women, if understood with this verse…. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither BOND nor FREE, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus?
As I ask this I want to be clear. I desire to have the mind of Christ in this matter, and if I have an idol of heart, I know God will deal with it.
I know from personal experience that we as spouses cannot clean the inside of the cup of our mates… and I believe that my mother going to a building cannot hide the true light within. So back to my question… is being spiritually strong (man or woman) best administered by… Rom 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves? Is my mother best demonstrating the mind of Christ and filling up in her body…Mat 8:17 “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself (body included) took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses”?
Would she be trying to be my Dad’s head (supplant/ usurp) if she pointed out scriptural truth instead of remaining silent?
Mike, she came to me and asked me, and I told her that I felt like because she took a vow to be a wife (even if she was ignorant then), that she would best honor Christ by honoring her husband. I also pointed her toward the fact that since she knew that going to church had nothing to do with true worship of God, that she was not soiling her inner cup by being in a building as long as she tried the spirits.
As I was reading your paper on the site, I came across this…

“The story of the ‘rib’ teaches us union not dis- union.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man [ married or single] is Christ; and the head of the woman [ married or single] is the man [ Christ]; and the head of Christ is God.”

So back to my question… if Christ be the head of a married woman, how does she honor Christ best in the situation I shared with you?

YBIC,
M___

Hi M____,

Thank you for your question concerning whether your mother should go back to Babylon with your father. This subject will serve to demonstrate who it is that we are really desirous of pleasing, and it will also demonstrate who we should please.
Your mother is placing God above your father, and while it is true that she is commanded to be subject to your father, that command is qualifies with “as unto Christ”.

Eph 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

The scriptures illustrate for us how we are to understand Eph 5:22. You and I are commanded to “be subject to the higher powers”, and we are told that if we resist those powers, we are resisting God and will be damned.

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

But “the sum of God’s word” reveals that when the ‘higher powers’ insist that we directly disobey the commandments of God, then “we ought to obey God rather than men”, even men who are “ordained of God”.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Here is what Christ tells us concerning our spouses and what should be their relationship with us as it relates to Christ and our heavenly Father.

Mat 19:29  And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Mar 10:29  And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s,
Mar 10:30  But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Luk 18:29  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
Luk 18:30  Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

As far as God telling Eve that “her desire would be to her husband”, please go back and reread that paper on The Head of Christ is God. In that paper it is demonstrated that that verse should read “your desire shall be against your husband.”

Gen 3:16  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to [ Hebrew – against] thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The Hebrew word translated translated ”to’, is the exact same Hebrew word translated ‘against’ in the very next chapter.

Gen 4:8  And Cain talked with Abel his brother and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

The Hebrew word here is ‘el’ and is translated ‘against’ 151 times elsewhere in the Old Testament according to the KJC module of e- sword. The spiritual message in Gen 3:16 is that because Eve had disobeyed Christ’s commandment, her curse was to be an innate desire to rebel against her husband also. “Your desire shall be against your husband” just as it is innate in all men to rebel against Christ. That is the spiritual application of that verse, and that is what your mother would be doing if she returns to Babylon to please your father rather than pleasing her heavenly Father. Your mother may not know anything you know, but she still has to live with the measure of faith she had been granted.
You mention Gal 3:28, and that verse is, of course, true.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

But Paul is not saying that women, because they are “in Christ” and because “there is neither male nor female” can now become bishops, and preachers,  church leaders, and the head of the household. The very next verse gives us the point Paul and the holy spirit are making.

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

“God really is no respecter of persons”, and your mother is just as precious to Him as is your father. But when it comes to “come out of her my people…” your mother, just like you and me and the apostles who returned to minister in the temple after being told not to do so, “ought to obey God rather than man”. In other words, it would not be adding one word to God’s word to read what Christ said about wives and substitute the word husbands in the verses we quoted above. I will do so with Luke’s account, just to make that point.

Luk 18:29  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man [ or woman] that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife [ or husband], or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

As you point out “the strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not please themselves”.

Rom 15:1  We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

This “we then” is a reference back to the previous chapter which is dealing with the very same situation of who we should place first in our lives. Do we place God and His word first, or does someone else occupy that position? The entire chapter of Rom 14 admonishes the strong to bear the infirmities of the weak, just as Peter admonishes us all to desire the sincere milk of the word. But for and to what end?

1Pe 2:2  As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

But neither Rom 14 and 15 nor 1Pe 2:2 command the brother who is not weak in the faith, to abandon his meat for the milk of his weaker brother, and none of us should ever revert back to the fish and herbs of Egypt.

Num 11:5  We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:

The commandment in Rom 14 and 15 is in accord with Peter’s admonition to “new born babes to desire the sincere milk of the word, that they may grow thereby.” Neither Peter nor Paul admonish the stronger brother to revert to the weak brother’s herbs and milk and stop growing, simply because “he that is weak eateth herbs.”

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

These words are addressed to the stronger brother, and the stronger brother is admonished to understand that a babe is not a strong person and cannot be expected to act as a strong person. But the strong brothers are never to allow the weak brothers to argue and “dispute” those things which constitute being “strong in the faith” and capable of digesting the “strong meat of the word.” How can we expect a weak brother to eat strong meat? So this whole chapter instructs the strong to be patient with a weak herb eating brother who “esteems one day above another, and eats herbs.”
This chapter is designed to “keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace”. It is not designed to be divisive, but when we place unity with our brothers above the unity of the spirit, which ‘spirit’ is God’s Word, then we are doomed to divisiveness, and all who do that will become as divided as Babylon, all the while telling themselves that they are striving for the unity of the body of Christ and the love of the children of God. But neither of those goals can be attained by ignoring these verses.

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

It is far better to be divided by the word of God, than it is to be united in the days, months, times and years of which Christ refused to be a part.

Joh 5:18  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Christ “broke the sabbath.” He did not appear on the first day of the feast as was commanded by Moses, and He did this all under great pressure from His own family to fit in with the traditions of His day. Yet Christ never gave an inch, and still He never despised His weaker brothers in His family.
So Paul begins his instructions to the strong brother to receive the weaker brother but not to permit that brother to argue and dispute with the meat of the word which ‘meat’ is the “all things” which the strong brother can eat, and the stronger brother’s ability to follow in Christ’s footsteps and “esteem every day alike”.

Rom 14:1  Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth [ all things] despise him that eateth not [ all things, and eats only herbs]; and let not him which eateth no t judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4  Who art thou [ that eats not and judges your stronger brother] that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [ alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The brother or sister who is strong in the faith and who “eats all things” is never to allow the weak brother to reduce him or her to eating herbs.

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.

“Leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ” has nothing to do with denying them. They are what Peter calls “the sincere milk of the word.” It is through this “sincere milk” that we come to be able “to eat all things… the strong meat of the word.”

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [ be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Being “full of age” we know better than to force strong meat on someone who “esteems one day above another”, and truly believes he is doing so “unto the Lord.”
The admonition here is that the stronger brothers should acknowledge that the weak brother is sincere and is doing what he is doing according to the measure of faith he has been given. The strong brother is admonished not to despise his weak brother, and the weak brother is admonished “not to judge” the strong brother who can “eat all things and esteem every day alike.”

Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth [ all things] despise him that eateth not [ all things, but eats only herbs]; and let not him which eateth not [ all things] judge him that eateth: for God hath received him[ who eats all things].
Rom 14:4  Who art thou [ you weak brother who eats herbs and yet “judges him that “eats all things”] that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

“God has received” the brother who “eats all things”, and the weak brother is admonished not to judge his stronger brother.
Notice who it is that “eats all things”. It is the strong brother, and he is told not to despise his weak brother. Who is it that “eats not” all things. It is the weak brother who can eat only herbs, and he is admonished not to judge his stronger brother who is able to eat things which the weak brother cannot yet receive or digest.
At the end of this admonition Paul makes it clear that he is placing the execution of all of this admonition mostly on the shoulders of the stronger brother who is expected to set the agenda and the example for the weaker brother when he concludes with the verse you quote.

Rom 15:1  We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

“Bear the infirmities”. He does not tell us to ‘become infirmed’. Here is how Christ obeyed these words under these very same circumstances, when He was exhorted by His own brothers to observe the traditional days of the law of Moses.

Joh 7:6  Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
Joh 7:7  The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Rom 15:1 tells us that weak brothers are to be treated as having “infirmities”, and the stronger brother should naturally allow for that condition and “bear the infirmities of the weak”. Now if the strong brother becomes the weak and infirmed brother, he will be of no help to either himself or his weak brother. What good is a sighted person to a blind person if he puts out his own eyes and becomes a blind person?
So Peter’s admonition is in accord with Paul’s admonition. The weak brother should desire the sincere milk of the word “that he may grow thereby”, and Paul is simply instructing us in Rom 14 to allow time for that growth and not to expect a newborn babe to eat strong meat. The strong meat will kill the new born babe, and the new born babe’s milk will starve to death the brother or sister who “eats all things”.

Paul confesses that he eats all things.

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean [ a brother who is weak in the faith], to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, [ esteeming every day alike, as Christ did] now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16  Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

Christ was not “destroying His weak brothers by refusing to follow in their weak steps. That is not what “Destroy not your weak brother with your meat” means. Paul calls the strong meat “your good”, but he is admonishing the stronger brother, that he should not try to force the brother who is weak in the faith to eat more than he is able to digest as yet.

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18  For he that in these things [ despising not his weaker brother] serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

A weak brother will not edify a strong brother by attempting to bring the strong brother down to his spiritual herbs. What is it that “makes for peace and edifies both parties”? Paul is referring to the strong brother bearing the infirmities of the weak brother, and allowing him time to grow in his faith, before expecting him to be able to receive strong meat.

Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things [ which the stronger brother can eat] indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. [ forces strong meat on a weak brother].

I made the mistake of feeding my firstborn son baked beans when he was about three weeks old. He kept spitting the beans out, and I kept putting them back into his mouth until he finally swallowed the beans which his infant’s digestive system could not handle. Fortunately for my son, his mother instructed me that our son was not yet ready to eat such food, so I refrained from forcing him to eat food he could not digest.  I actually was under the impression, as we all are at some time, that if I could just force this solid food down his mouth, it would be good for him. But that is not so.

Rom 14:21  It is good neither [ to try to force your brother] to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Strong meat will cause a babe in Christ to stumble, be offended and be made even weaker. So what ought we to do? But I did not revert to living on milk just because my son could not eat the the hot dog I had while I was feeding him the beans.

Rom 14:22  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing [ the strong meat] which he alloweth.

Go ahead and eat your strong meat. You can do so in good faith. That is what you and I need. ‘It is good neither [ to try to force your brother] to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak” is not an admonition by the apostle Paul to stop eating strong spiritual meat. But it is an admonition against forcing that strong meat on a brother who still doubts, and cannot yet, in good faith, eat your strong meat.

Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

What is this all about? Why is Paul writing this chapter? Is physical food really the subject? No, this is the subject that is under consideration.

Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Does this verse conflict with the many verses that admonish us all to “be of one mind”?

1Co 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
2Co 13:11  Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

If we take Rom 14:5 by itself, it certainly appears to say that we can all think and do what we feel is right, and “whatsoever in not of faith is sin” replaces “speak the same thing… be of the same mind.” On the other hand, if we understand that Rom 14:5 and the rest of this chapter which is addressed to the brothers who are strong enough to follow the example of our Lord who, as our example and our pattern, was under pressure from His family and all of society to conform to the law of Moses, did not buckle to that pressure, but rather remained “strong in the faith” and “esteemed every day alike.” He obey His heavenly father rather than men, and yet did not expect his family or society to do so. When we follow His example, then there is no contradiction at all.

Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord [ as Christ’s family did]; and he that regardeth not the day [ as Christ has set us an example, if we are strong enough to receive it], to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth [ strong meat], eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not [ strong meat, but eats only herbs], to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
That is the ‘food’ which is being considered in this chapter.

Rom 14:7  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

Christ lived to please His father. He did not allow the pressures of society to dissuade Him from doing that, and yet He did not condemn those who were still keeping the sabbaths and holy days of the Jews, even as He refused to do so. Here is how Christ, applied the words of Rom 14:

Joh 7:3  His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
Joh 7:4  For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.

It is so human and so very natural for the weak brothers of Christ to want to set His agenda and instruct Him in how He should give up his meat for their herbs, and to make an effort to become a popular leader in this age.

Joh 7:5  For neither did his brethren believe in him.

No one who places the love of his brothers above the love of God, really loves his brothers at all. So a brother who is weak in the faith will always judge His stronger brother as being divisive and uncaring of his brothers because the stronger brother will not compromise his obedience to the example left him by Christ and by the apostles of Christ. Here is the only love that is the true Godly love.

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Now all we need to do is to observe how our Savior applied all of these verses, and we really ought to follow in His steps and not to please ourselves or our wives or husbands or family members or friends. Here is the example Christ left us to follow.

Joh 7:6  Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
Joh 7:7  The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

One of the ways Christ “testified that the works of the the world are evil” was, in the context of His words here in Joh 7, to refuse to participate in their days, months, times and years. Christ steadfastly refused to “esteem one day above another.” That is a piece of strong meat with which “him that is weak in the faith…” will always dispute. Nevertheless, these are Christ’s words to His family who could not yet follow in His footsteps, and who considered him to be insane.

Joh 7:8  Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
Joh 7:9  When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee [ contrary to the law which required all males to appear before God on the first day of every festival].
Joh 7:10  But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Mar 3:21  And the ones from His side [ fig., His relatives] having heard, they went out to take hold of Him, for they said that He was out of His mind. (ALT).

Christ made no attempt to convert his carnal brothers and sisters. He let them eat their herbs and esteem one day above another, and did not despise them for what He was working in their lives. But neither did He compromise and water down His gospel so it would have a wider appeal to those who were not yet capable of eating strong meat. Instead He was patient with His weak brothers and He bore their infirmities, knowing we would all give an accounting for the measure of faith we are granted before His own judgment seat.

Rom 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.

A weak brother stumbles at meat, and a strong brother starves on milk. So what are we now to do? The answer is the verse you reference.

Rom 15:1  We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Rom 15:2  Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom 15:3  For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

“We that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak… please not himself… please his neighbor for his good, to edification, and expect to be reproached of their weaker brothers.
If your mother is true to Christ and Christ’s example, then she will “please your father for his good to edification.” But going back to Babylon on a regular basis will not edify your father for his good. Here is how you and I and your mother are to treat what is taught in Babylon every week.

2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [ your] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

It is completely untenable to attend Babylon on a regular basis and remain true to these verses and commandments of God.
It is the strong brother who is to be patient with the weak herb- eating brother, and yet not allow that weaker brother to set the standard of behavior or the agenda for those who can “eat all things and esteem every day alike”, and “bring this doctrine” just as our Lord did.
Here is one more section of scripture which is often abused to justify watering down the “doctrine of Christ.”

1Co 8:7  Howbeit [ there is] not in every man that knowledge [ that there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things]: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it [ meat offered to an idol] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8  But meat [ offered to an idol] commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9  But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Co 8:10  For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11  And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12  But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13  Wherefore, if [ eating] meat [ offered to an idol] make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh [ in an idols temple] while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Many people read verse 13 as if verse 10 did not exist. But verse 10 is the basis for verse 13. Not one single apostle of Christ ever taught that the weak brothers were to be the standard by which the rest of us should live our spiritual lives. The exact opposite is true. The strong were told that their strength was good, and they should leave the milk and herb principles of the doctrine of Christ and go on unto perfection. The weak are told to “Desire the sincere milk of the word so as to grow there by.” That is the message of Rom 14 and 15. It is the message of Joh 7, Heb 5 and 6, and it is the message of 1Pe 2, 1Co 8, and 2Jn 1. The strong brothers are to be overseers of God’s flock and never to allow grievous wolves with heresies and the “leaven of the Pharisees to enter unchallenged into God’s flock and destroy it. At the same time, the bishops and overseers of the flock are to be patient with “him that is weak in the faith.”
I will close with this verse which is addressed to both the weak and the strong in the body of Christ.

Php 3:16  Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

I hope this helps you to see that your mother is expected to submit to your father in anything that does not require here to violate the doctrine of Christ, but returning to weekly Babylonian services is nothing less than letting false doctrine and spiritual fornication into your spiritual house and then bidding it god speed.
Let me know what you think.
Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Hi Mike,
From the last study you mentioned,

“This particular ‘locust’ uses the name of Christ and quotes many scriptures about Christ being within. But this locust does not mention that Christ has to remove what is naturally within before He will take up His abode within this earthen vessel.”

I just wanted to mention to you that John as you know came eating locusts and wild honey, and the locust was meat for him and the honey, as are the false doctrines we overcome in our land (locust) are meat which build us up as we devour them with the humility of Christ which causes us to realize our need for this manifold wisdom which he brings to us via John the baptist who represents the body of the elect in type crying out in the wilderness.

Eph.3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God.

God’s word is sweeter than honey (Psa 103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!), but if we only have knowledge without trials that meat will make us sick if we have too much.

Pro.25:16 Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it.

So with the balance of locust in our spiritual diet which is the lies of Babylon being devoured within we gain a healthier view of what we were and what we are becoming all by the grace and faith of God as His banquet continues! The two food groups also reveals the process of God witnessing in us only truthfully when this true food is our spiritual staple.

Thank you for the great study!
Your fellow servant in Christ,
T____

Hi T____,

Thanks for pointing out to me the fact that honey represents that part that nourishes us when we are crying out in the wilderness, “prepare ye the way of the Lord.” That too, has an inward application, as you point out, to the principalities and powers in our heavens.
I was so focused on the connection to our early immaturity, that I had overlooked the fact that they really are also nourishment for us. This scripture comes to mind:

Num 14:8  If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.
Num 14:9  Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they are bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the LORD [ is] with us: fear them not.
Num 14:10  But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

Milk and honey are not strong meat, but we have to have milk and honey. Here is what Peter tells us:

1Pe 2:2  As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

The overcoming of our trials serves to nourish us. That really is not really strong spiritual meat, but even that can choke an Israelite who is still unable to receive it.
For example the doctrine of universal salvation is not the meat of the Word. Paul taught universal salvation, and he said that he was feeding the Corinthians with milk in the very same chapter in which he teaches “Yet he himself shall be saved though as by fire.” Here is how the third chapter of 1Co begins:

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [ even] as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [ to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [ am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Then we find the doctrine of universal salvation just ten verses later:

1Co 3:13  Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So when we are addicted to poisoned milk, even “the sincere milk of the Word” can choke a babe in Christ, like a piece of strong meat, and those who cannot receive “the sincere milk of the Word”  will want to stone you, both within and without.

Joh 8:30  As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Joh 8:31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:48  Then answered the Jews [“that believed on Him”], and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
Joh 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them [“that believed on Him”], and so passed by.

Christ certainly was not guilty of forcing strong meat down the throats of babes. Nevertheless He always called a spade a spade, and when that happens we all want to stone Christ and His Truth simply because we are unable to receive even the sincere milk of the Word, much less the strong meat, while we are still carnal babes in Christ.

Joh 8:43  Why do ye not understand my speech? [ even] because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44  Ye are of [ your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45  And because I tell [ you] the truth, ye believe me not.

But being a carnal babe is just as nourishing and essential a part of our experience as is maturity, simply because you cannot become mature without first being immature.

Thank you as always, for your input.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Audio Links

Video Links

Spiritual Drunkenness

I have always been intrigued by the churches of Christianity and their various traditions in regards to drinking alcohol and/ or becoming drunk. Recently, our local bible study had an interesting but short discussion about drinking alcohol, and whether or not it was biblically acceptable.

I had planned to personally do a bible study on this topic and present it in an upcoming bible study, but I thought it would make a nice talk for this mini bible conference. So, without further delay let’s get drunk on the new wine that the Lord has hopefully prepared for us.

Overseers and Ministers

I am confident we are all very much personally aware of someone who is or who has been an alcoholic. If not, then I know we are all at least familiar with the affects of alcohol. However, even if we have read various but brief descriptions of being drunk spiritually on IWWB, if you are or were like me, you had never really done a more in- depth study of the topic.

Of course, many churches hold strong stances and doctrines on the topic which inevitably figure into our personal mindsets on the topic. Some of the most widely used verses to formulate a doctrine one way or another lie in Titus chapter one and 1Ti chapter three. I want to read this through because they set the stage for the rest of the study. Those few verses read as:

Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

And:

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now, having read all that, is that all there is to drinking alcohol or wine? Well, of course it isn’t. However, scripture has surprisingly very little to say on physically becoming drunk and it being sinful and even less on simply drinking wine or alcohol, but scripture paints a huge canvas on what it is to spiritually drink and/or to become drunk.

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

As with all scripture, we need to keep in mind what the physical example is pointing to us to understanding in the spiritual and as is also true with every word of scripture there is a positive and negative aspect to each.

Before we start to dive into the physical versus spiritual aspects of drunkenness we need to first compare physical to physical and I am specifically referring to the words written in your bible.

What I am referring to can be found in the example found in Jer 51:7:

Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Jer 51:7 BabylonH894 hath been a goldenH2091 cupH3563 in the LORD’SH3068 hand,H3027 that made allH3605 the earthH776 drunken:H7937 the nationsH1471 have drunkenH8354 of her wine;H4480 H3196 thereforeH5921 H3651 the nationsH1471 are mad.H1984

As I have listed out in the notes, you can read and see that the first English word “drunken” in this verse is not the same Hebrew word found secondly in the verse. The first word refers to becoming drunk and the second time refers to having drunk something in this case wine.

So, if it is not obvious we just need to firstly be careful that we are actually reading it as it is written and secondly that when reading it as written we are taking care to read it in the light of the verses surrounding it. This becomes more and more important when we are trying to discern what the spiritual message is that we are being told.

Now that we have touched briefly on the physical with more to come, let’s also now begin to set the stage for comparing spiritual to spiritual, and what better place to start than to compare wine to strong drink because there is a difference both physically and spiritually as well.

Wine versus Strong Drink

To show there is a contrast of the two we can read:

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

So obviously we can see a contrast with the word nor distinguishing the two, but what is the spiritually significant difference between wine and strong drink and why does it matter. Being given eyes that see and ears that hear the difference dramatically reveal what these words mean to us spiritually and hopefully opens up to us to always see these words and phrases in a whole new light.

The first occurrence of wine and being drunk from it that I could find scripturally can be seen with Noah. If anyone sees this differently, please let me know after the talk or latter when you happen upon your findings.

Here is what we find in Gen:

Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
Gen 9:19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
Gen 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

The first important thing to note in this short story is that God has made a covenant with Noah and not with Noah only but with all living flesh, and this very important covenant is that the water will not become a flood and destroy all flesh. We just read that Paul told Timothy not to drink water anymore, but to drink a little wine. What can we spiritually discern from that? Let’s continue and find out. Which wine is Paul referring to?

The second and very revealing thing to notice is that the next thing we do after God makes this covenant with is that we LEAVE God’s protection, in this case the ark, and set forth to build a vineyard that creates the wine that makes us drunk. How is this important? Well, I hope you have already started to pick up on it.

From the very first time we come to know God and we are shown his mercy via a covenant with Him, the ark typifying our first baptism and walk with Christ, we then set out and take this knowledge with us as we build upon what the Lord has blessed us with – fertile land – and we build upon this something that results in us becoming naked. Of course, I know you all know that the Lord is working all of this, but it is through Noah and his actions that it is being worked. Of note is that Noah does eventually “wake from his wine” and knows he was naked, but that is going to be covered a little later.

So, that is one example of wine that we have talked about but let’s talk about another. That can be found in the very next time we see wine mentioned and that is found in Gen 14.

Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
Gen 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king’s dale.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Immediately when I read this story I think of Psa 110:

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psa 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
Psa 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Psa 110:7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

So what in the world am I getting at? Hopefully, I am not getting at anything of this world, but something far, far above it. The first time we see wine mentioned, we see the first covenant made with God, and the second time we see wine mentioned, we see that a tithe is made to the the High Priest as a result of bread and wine coming to us from the High Priest.

The first time we take of what the land produces, the wine, we become drunk from it resulting in nakedness, and the second time around we take of what the High Priest provides to us, the bread and wine, and we give Him something in return…a tithe. Spiritually, we know the High Priest to be Jesus Christ, and we know that the spiritual tithe is giving Him ourselves completely.

Can we see the difference? First we take and consume of what THE LAND brings forth, but the second time around is when the High Priest appears “bringing forth” bread and wine. There is a time period here that typifies our crying out to the Lord and Him delivering us from our nakedness.

Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

The Stronger the Drink…

To continue on with comparing wine to strong meat, we can now start to see what strong meat is and what it does / produces spiritually. Wine brought forth of the land, the earth, turns into drunkenness which produces nakedness that needs to be covered. Strong drink, as is true in the physical realm, produces this result much quicker, but it also adds something else to the mix so to speak. Strong drink gets us drunk quicker with less, but it also gives an illusion that we are strong and invincible.

Pro 20:1 Wine [ is] a mocker, strong drink [ is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

(NASB) Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise.

And then we see this:

Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

But what does that mean? Someone ready to perish could use some strength. Someone who is of a heavy heart is lowly, and being a mocker translates into thinking you are above or better than what you are mocking; in other words the attitude that “I would never do that”. Why are we instructed to give strong drink and wine to anyone? Let’s see if we can determine this from the scripture.

Deu 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Deu 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
Deu 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.

While being led in the wilderness, we have not eaten bread neither do we drink wine or strong drink, but wait! Didn’t Israel eat manna/ bread every morning as was provided to them? So, what are we being told? Let’s continue and see if the scripture comes together spiritually for us.

Lam 4:19 Our persecutors are swifter than the eagles of the heaven: they pursued us upon the mountains, they laid wait for us in the wilderness.
Lam 4:20 The breath of our nostrils, the anointed of the LORD, was taken in their pits, of whom we said, Under his shadow we shall live among the heathen.
Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.
Lam 4:22 The punishment of thine iniquity is accomplished, O daughter of Zion; he will no more carry thee away into captivity: he will visit thine iniquity, O daughter of Edom; he will discover thy sins.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

In Deuteronomy we just read that while we are being led by the Lord in the wilderness we have not drunk wine, and in Lamentations we also read that the punishment of our iniquity as being children of our mother (O daughter of Zion), result in us no longer being carried away into captivity but results in our inquity being visited and our sins being discovered. What in the world do we make of all that? Isn’t there a positive and negative to wine and strong drink?

Gen 43:34 And he took and sent messes unto them from before him: but Benjamin’s mess was five times so much as any of theirs. And they drank, and were merry with him.

The word merry here is poorly translated and should be translated as it was in all other instances as drunk or drunken.

(LITV) Gen 43:34 And one carried portions from before him to them, and Benjamin’s portion was greater than the portions of all of them, five hands. And they drank and were drunken with him.

Old versus New

Up until this point, we have concentrated on several aspects of being physically and spiritually drunk, strong drink versus wine, and that only briefly, but we also need to add in a third part to the equation and that is new versus old. Of course, I am confident that we are all familiar with the parable of the new wine versus the old wine, but we should read it quickly to present it fresh to our minds and a good example of this can be found in Mar.

Mar 2:18 And the disciples of Joh and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of Joh and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?
Mar 2:19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
Mar 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Mar 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

One of the things Christ was alluding to here was there being of necessity a change of the Law which they were all very familiar with back then. He mentions the bridegroom, in essence a new life as a married person and also the reference to the new being completely new and needing to be put into new containers.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Isn’t it amazing how we read earlier that Melchisedec came bringing wine, and Christ is here speaking about new wine, and He is the new High Priest? Is this new wine important, and just who gets this spiritual new wine? Well, we just read it doesn’t go in old bottles which must keep the law, the old wine, but it must go in new bottles which will keep the new wine. Another witness to this is:

Joe 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joe the son of Pethuel.
Joe 1:2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
Joe 1:3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
Joe 1:4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

And yet a third witness to who gives and possesses this new wine:

Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Spiritually speaking, it is of note that we should recognize that this new wine will age and become better over time just as old wine has to go through the time process to become good and desirable. We can see this to be true with what we just read about the sun and the moon being darkened. This darkening, which results in us receiving new wine, starts in us our spiritual walk with Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

Bringing the New Wine “In”

I mentioned before that we would touch on physical wine and how Noah awoke from his wine and knew that he had been naked and it was his seed, his son, which had seen his nakedness. If we only look at the surface of the letter, we are not given to know exactly how Noah knew what happened, but spiritually we have already come to a spiritual truth of what had happened.

With the wine that we abuse physically, we see the results in a physical way, but when we abuse the wine that is brought forth of the vineyard we plant, the result is hidden from us until we are given to see and hear that result. Again, we read:

Deu 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Deu 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
Deu 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.

We simply cannot see past the strong delusion that is spiritually placed upon us. One of the greatest examples of this is in how most of us, along with most of Christendom look down so much on drinking wine or drinking a beer in general. We see this as spiritual weakness when in truth, the truth is that the issue isn’t with the person who is drinking the alcohol but with the person who takes issue with it. Here is what I mean, and here are the scriptures from which I glean this truth.

Mar 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
Mar 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Nothing from without a man entering into him can defile him, but why is that?

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

We can see that the drunkard has a spirit that the Lord has sent that causes him to become physically drunk, but what we need to see, what we need to hear when we “be still and know that I am God”, and what we need to do is look on our OWN heart, our OWN MIND and see it as God sees it. It is we who have the spirit of drunkenness that tells us that what the Lord has given to us is somehow bad.

What is true is that we are those who see an alcoholic drink and somehow associate it with sin and if we take and drink of it we are taking and drinking that sin and thus committing sin. This is not truth but a lie. Now, am I advocating getting drunk? Absolutely not. A man or woman of God does not get drunk physically and more importantly spiritually. A man or woman of God is spiritually in a condition that the physical drunkenness never has a chance to happen.

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Is that any different than this commandment?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

I tell you that this is NOT different but it is refined. It is a change, a reform, a raising of the bar of what is already physically true.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This change is simply that the physical is STILL TRUE. Just as physical adultery results in sin and the penalty of death, equally true is that the spiritual act of adultery resulting in spiritual fornication is spiritual death. This is no different with physical and spiritual wine. However, we need to be very sure of what is being said. I hope the following sums this up.

Gen 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

Was Noah punished by God for planting a vineyard that produced the wine he drank? The last verse in Deu 13 says this:

Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

And one of these commandments was to:

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Did the Lord really just command that they TITHE to him what was turned into money and then bought wine or strong drink or whatsoever thy soul desire? Yes, he did, and this was the law in the old testament. Is this spiritually done away with? Was adultery now allowed by Christ to physically happen or was the bar raised that didn’t only raise the requirement to meant the spiritually commandment but it almost discounts that the physical is even in question?

The point being made is that God allowed drinking of physical wine to happen without some rod of lightning killing everyone and calling it a sin. We all know and just read that Paul instructed Timothy to drink physical wine for his stomach’s sake and his OFTEN INFIRMITIES. Is it a stretch to think that those often infirmities were often met with often drinking of wine?
Wine was drunk at the last supper. Was it fermented? Is that REALLY all we can concentrate on? Shouldn’t we rather be concentrated on what we are spiritually being instructed when Christ says this from His own lips:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Do you believe Christ when He proclaims that His words are spirit and life? Well, what about these words:

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.

Is this some other fruit of a vine that doesn’t produce wine? Is this what is the subject here? Is this not a physical drinking of wine which points to and makes understood a spiritual truth to those that are able to see and hear it via the revelation of the Holy Spirit?

What we should all really be concerned about is what wine we are drinking, not IF it is wine or not, grape juice or not, alcoholic or non- alcoholic. This is NOT the point. A physical alcoholic will continue to be a physical drunkard until the Lord hedges them from that spirit just as a physical adulterer will commit adultery until the Lord says it is no longer going to be so.

Again, I hope you know and hear me when I say that I am NOT advocating any of us to physically get drunk, but I am completely advocating that we concentrate on the spiritual wine and not the physical. If you are concentrated on the physical wine, who is drinking it, what they do after, who they do it with, etc., then you are simply doing what the Lord says we all do but must get past. You’re looking on the outward appearance and not the inward as God sees us.

Also keep in mind, that if we see a brother or sister who we call a brother or sister in Christ committing a sin of becoming drunk and acting as such, then WE do need to bring this to light to the brother or sister and the church so that repentance can happen or that they can be turned over to Satan for the destruction of that fleshly pursuit.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.
1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

We should be trying the spirits in others and ourselves. We should be comparing spiritual with spiritual and not physical with spiritual when someone has a glass of wine or a beer at dinner time. It is the intent that is important.

Conclusion

Physical wine versus spiritual wine, spiritual old wine versus spiritual new wine, basic wine versus strong drink have all been various angles that have been talked about in this talk on spiritual drunkenness. During this time, we have compared one against another to try and glean what we are spiritually being told about wine and strong drink and what it produces.

Becoming drunk with physical wine is no different than any other sin that we commit. They all are the same to the Lord, and they all result in death. Spiritually becoming drunk with spiritual wine produces life or death depending on if it is old or new. The old wine comes of the earth and is earthy in nature. The old wine comes from the law which is for the lawless and disobedient; whereas, new wine as is brought to us from our High Priest produces life in us. It makes us rejoice with our King and Lord and with our brothers who sit and sup with us as we receive five times more than those who only receive one portion. Spiritually becoming drunk with old wine, the doctrines of our whore mother, can only result in us becoming naked and later trying to cover this nakedness as Adam and Eve saw they were naked and after Noah became naked and was covered by the “seed, the fruits of his loins”. Knowing the difference is knowing or not knowing “Him who He has sent” the new wine.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Not knowing the difference results in us groping for the wall like the blind:

Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

Let us all pray that we begin to know, understand and remember what the wine of the Lord is all about.

Hi Mike,

I am reading “What is the Difference Between Knowing and Believing We Are God’s Elect?”, and I was wondering:

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Receive him not into your house, is spiritually speaking, right? I can have someone coming over in my physical brick house, a person who is not abiding in the doctrines of Christ, and have a coffee and a talk with him. Not recieving him in my house is speaking of not spiritually recieving his doctrines in my spiritual house. Am I correct ?

Your brother in Christ
R____

Hi R____,

You can have family members and friends who oppose the doctrine of Christ into your physical home, and you can eat physical food with them. What you do not do is to talk about spiritual matters with those who are not receptive to the doctrine of Christ. That is the meaning of “no not to eat.”

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

In other words, “receive him not into your house” is very similar to “cast not your pearls before swine…”

2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Christ himself physically ate at the house of Simon the Pharisee, who did not have the doctrine of Christ.

Luk 7:36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to meat.
Luk 7:37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that [ Jesus] sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
Luk 7:38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
Luk 7:39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
Luk 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

The Pharisees certainly did not “have the doctrine of Christ.” Christ even warned His disciples to “beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.” They were “called [ Christ’s Jewish] brothers, yet when invited “to eat with Simon the Pharisee,” Christ “went into the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to meat.” But Christ did not partake of the Pharisee’s spiritual meat. Instead He used the occasion to witness to Simon, the Pharisee:

Luk 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that [ he], to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped [ them] with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

I hope this helps you to see that Christ could physically eat with a man whose doctrine was contrary to His own, and yet not allow that person into His own spiritual house. So it is obvious that we too can eat a physical meal with friends and family members whose doctrine is contrary to that of Christ, and if the opportunity arises to witness to them and they refuse the doctrine of Christ, it become a “witness against them.” But we are not to partake of their spiritual food or allow them into our spiritual house.

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

That is the principle by which we live. We can feed our enemy spiritually, but we are not to partake of our enemy’s food spiritually. Be not overcome of evil ‘doctrine,’ but overcome evil ‘doctrine’ with good ‘doctrine.’

Luk 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

Shaking off the dust from your feet is also a spiritual statement and not a physical ritual. We have no record of Christ ever performing that ritual as they were driven out of certain towns. The disciples were told to do it, but it is no more a required ritual than ‘drinking His blood’.

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Luk 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

It is not that which is outside a man that entering into him defiles him. But that doctrine which is in our hearts which, if it is not that of Christ, will defile us.

Mat 15:11 Not that which entereth into the mouth defileth the man; but that which proceedeth out of the mouth, this defileth the man.
Mat 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth come forth out of the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, railings:
Mat 15:20 these are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not the man.

I hope this helps you to see that when Christ or His apostles speak of eating with someone who opposes His Truth, that it is understood that it is “not that which enters into the mouth that defiles a man, but it is that which proceeds out of the mouth that defiles a man.”

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

First, I want to let you know that I was one of those viewing the Dallas conference live on the internet.  I was highly edified by the talks, the singing and the e- sword presentation.  If the Lord wills it, I should be able to meet you and the brethren personally on one of the next conferences.

The reason I wrote this time is because of the letter below.  In your response, I’m afraid that you missed the following verses:

Act 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Act 15:29  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

So it seems that we are not to eat or drink blood even today.  But I am not denying that we should eat the flesh and drink the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Simply put, we must live His life in our flesh.

Here’s the Old Testament counterpart:

Lev 7:26  Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.

Lev 7:27  Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Lev 17:13  And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

We both know what fowl and beasts signify in Scripture.  So what I see in these Scriptures is that before we can drink the blood of Christ, we must pour out the blood of the beast.  Before our Lord can live in us, we must be crucified with Him first.  The life of the flesh must die first and return to dust (“cover it with dust”), before we can be turned into spirit.

I know you’re busy catching up on your emails, so when you find the time to consider this understanding, please comment on it.  I’ll be looking forward with your response, whether it is confirmation or correction.

Your brother in the Christ,

V____

Hi V____,
Thank you for your question. Your question is of an ‘in depth’ type and gives me the opportunity to emphasize the point I was making in my talk in Dallas. That point being that we “must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” We do not live every word l iterally, but we must acknowledge doing so spiritually. As an example of what I mean by that, we need not take Uriah’s wife and kill him in order to be guilty of adultery or murder. Christ has raised the bar so high that now all we need to do is to “look on a woman to lust after her,” and we have “committed adultery already in our hearts,” and all we need do now to be counted as guilty of murder is to hate our brother.

Mat 5:27  Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

1Jn 3:15  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

So it is with the subject of your question. You point out to me that the law does not allow us to eat the blood with the flesh. That is a physical, “carnal commandment” which carries with it a spiritual message. It was Christ Himself who told us:

Mat 15:11  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

And this is what the New Testament teaches concerning the laws of the offerings:

Heb 7:11  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:16  Who [ Christ our high priest] is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

You point to “these necessary things” mentioned in Act 15, and you conclude: “So it seems that we are not to eat or drink blood even today.” That is a classic example of comparing physical with spiritual and thinking it is comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But that is not how the holy spirit teaches:

1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I am not advocating drinking physical blood. The physical realm is totally irrelevant to the point being made. As I referenced above, it was Christ Himself who told us that it was not what went into the mouth that defiled a man. Drinking physical blood is not the point of drinking Christ’s blood, and you fail to take into account the fact that the holy spirit itself tells us that the days of Christ and His apostles, was “the time of reformation” and that the disciples, of Christ were still at that time “not able to bear… many things Christ had to tell them.”

Heb 9:10  Which [ law of the offerings, including the prohibition against drinking blood] stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Christ’s message of reformation was not for the multitudes, but for those who had ears to hear:

Mat 11:14  And if ye will receive it, this [ John the baptist] is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 11:15  He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

John was not really Elijah, and the coming of Elijah before the coming of the Messiah, was about as literal as the drinking of Christ’s blood, in order to have life.
But James and the church at Jerusalem were still making animal sacrifices according to the law, long after Act 15. They still failed to understand the spiritual message being conveyed by not allowing ancient Israel to eat the blood of the sacrifices. He was still “not able to bear” the fact that Christ had fulfilled all those sacrifices. The holy spirit was well aware of where each apostle was and was patiently working with each “as they could receive it.”

Act 21:21  And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22  What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23  Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24  Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [ their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [ that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25  As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [ and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [ things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Act 21:26  Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

That offering was an animal sacrifice, which Paul knew was now irrelevant and unnecessary. The Jewish disciples at Jerusalem were just where Paul tells us the Corinthian church was at this time.

1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

We tend to think that these words apply only to ‘those carnal Corinthian, babes in Christ.’ We fail to realize that even though the different apostles were given many of the gifts of the spirit, and healed the sick and cast out demons, both before and after the beginning of their conversion, they too, were “neither yet now able to bear… MANY things which Christ had to tell them.” This was especially true for James and the multitudes of disciples in the very Jewish city of Jerusalem. Look at the parallel between Paul’s words many years after the resurrection of Christ and Christ’s words the night before His apprehension by the Jews.

Joh 16:12  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

That is right, these words proceeded out of our Lord’s mouth just before he was apprehended by the Jews to be crucified, and yes, this was still true at the time of Act 15. The Jewish apostles and disciples were still unable to receive the fact that Gentiles were now also the seed of Abraham. It was the equivalent of telling them to drink blood.

Joh 6:53  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Christ knew full well that these words would come into the minds of those to whom He spoke:

Lev 17:10  And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11  For the life of the flesh [ is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 17:12  Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
Lev 17:13  And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

That covering of the blood with dust is the dust of our flesh.  There is a progression of revelation in God’s Word. Before the flood of Noah, neither meat nor blood were eaten; after the flood meat was eaten, but not the blood with the life. After Christ came then the blood with the life was to be eaten.
While it is true that clean and unclean meats were made known to man before the flood, it is also true that man did not even eat meat before the flood. Obviously clean meat had nothing to do with the spiritual message being given us by meats which weren’t even being consumed at the time Cain and Abel were sacrificing to God.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his [ own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the eart h, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Peter tells us that the flood represents our baptism:

1Pe 3:20  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21  The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And this is what the new man is told after the flood and baptism:

Gen 9:3  Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Not one word of this is to be taken literally or physically. “All things are lawful but all things are not expedient.” Christ knew very well how the words He spoke would be perceived by his very carnal Jewish disciples.

Joh 6:52  The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Joh 6:53  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

These are words of spirit. They are not meant to be taken literally. But Christ was a reformer, and these words were intended to make the point that He was a reformer, just as much as were these words:

Mat 5:43  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The natural man cannot receive these words.
The same letter you reference there in Act 15, told those to whom it was sent that they should refrain from eating meat offered to idols. You referenced that verse. That was what those disciples in Jerusalem at that time could bear, and that was what the Gentiles at that time could bear.  Yet the holy spirit later revealed, for those who can now receive it, that “the idol is nothing at all,” and that the only reason we would need to abstain, is for the sake of a weak brother whose conscience would be defiled if we just went along with the crowd and sat in an idol’s temple and ate meat offered to an idol.

1Co 8:8  But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

A modern example is the keeping of Pagan holidays, or for that matter Jewish holy days. There is nothing wrong with decorating a tree when it is expedient. All things are lawful, under the proper circumstances which have us “doing all things to the glory of God.” But all things are not expedient,” when they are not being done “to the glory of God.” It is expedient that we do everything we do, “whether we eat or drink, or whatever we do,” it is expedient that we “do it to the glory of God.” If we are not doing it to glorify God, then it is expedient that we stop doing it.

1Co 6:12  All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co 6:13  Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

When we do anything and we are not doing it “as unto the Lord,” we are committing spiritual fornication, and “the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.” There is no “neutral ground” with God. We are either for or against Him in all that we do.

1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
1Co 10:19  What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20  But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21  Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22  Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
1Co 10:23  All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

When we do anything simply to avoid persecution, it is a snare and a sin. Nevertheless, under the proper circumstance, “all things are lawful.” I myself decorated a tree at my eldest son’s wedding. He was married on Dec. 10th and there was a Christmas tree in the hall where we were to hold the reception. Therefore it was expedient that we disassemble the decorations and remove the tree until after the reception, at which time I helped to redecorate the tree. I had no compunctions at all decorating that tree. On the other hand, if I were to simply ignore God’s words in the “treasures” of the New Testament:

Gal 4:10  Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11  I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

… and these words out of the “treasures of the Old Testament:”

Deu 12:29  When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
Deu 12:30  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32  What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

… then I would have had compunctions about decorating that tree, or doing anything for any reason other than to glorify God and Christ.

1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

There are many Christians today who observe days, months, times and years just to avoid being ostracized by society. They tell themselves, and they will tell you, “I keep Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentine’s Day, birthday’s etc. etc. but I’m not doing that to God. I do that simply because I love everyone, and I take those days as an opportunity to express that love. I am not using those pagan rituals to try to please God. Lighten up, Mike, try to enjoy life a little, and partake of my meat, and give up those herbs you are eating there in Deuteronomy.”
Such people do not even know what is the love of their brothers. Here is the only Biblical way to “love your brothers” in Christ:

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

They seldom even attempt to deal with Gal 4:10:

Gal 4:10  Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11  I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

The letter you reference in Act 15, which “seemed good to the holy spirit and to us,” mentions the fact that “these necessary things” were all that were necessary, because “Moses is read every sabbath.” As mentioned above, James and the multitudes who believed in Jerusalem were still observing the weekly seventh day sabbath, simply because they did not yet understand that Christ is our sabbath, and He walked through the fields on the sabbath day, and ate the corn on the sabbath contrary to the law which commanded Israel to prepare twice as much on Friday, and not to gather manna or sticks or do any labor on the sabbath day.  As I noted above, James and the multitude of Christians at Jerusalem were so unable to receive the things of the spirit at that time that they were still offering animal sacrifices, and the apostle Paul was not permitted by the spirit to do so even though He, just like Peter who Paul himself had reproved for separating himself from the Gentiles in Antioch, was just about to act as if the death of Christ was not a sufficient sacrifice and needed the help of the blood of an animal.
“These necessary things” were part of “our schoolmaster” the law, and it is indeed “necessary… to bring us to Christ.”

Gal 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

In its time and place it is beautiful and it is necessary. That is the lesson of Ecc 3:

Ecc 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecc 3:2  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [ that which is] planted;
Ecc 3:3  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7  A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Ecc 3:9  What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?
Ecc 3:10  I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
Ecc 3:11  He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

But why was the meat of the sacrifice allowed to be eaten while the blood was to be “poured out as water?”
The answer is that in the New Testament both Christ’s body and His blood typify the life- giving words of Christ, while in the Old Testament type a very important distinction is made:

Deu 12:23  Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
Deu 12:24  Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water

Why was Israel told not to eat the flesh with the life, the soul, while Christ’s disciples were told to eat both the flesh and blood of Christ? Here is why:

Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Christ alone has “the words of life.” There was no life promised anywhere in the law of Moses. Therefore they were told: “thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.” It is drinking Christ’s blood that quenches our thirst.
I hope this all helps you to see that the life of Christ, and the lives of the apostles, were “the time of reformation,” and “these necessary things” were quoted right out of the law of Moses and were necessary for the exact same reason that Moses had Israel to write a letter of divorcement to put away a wife:

Mar 10:5  And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

The same was true for the letter in Act 15. The holy spirit knew that the Jews at Jerusalem were still “hard of heart,” and not yet able to bear the many things Christ yet had to tell them.

Joh 16:12  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Those words are true to this very day for most Christians. They certainly applied to me for most of my adult life.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike & IWWB team, Hey, I just wanted to say thank you for the tremendous work you guys are doing with IWWB. com. I was curious if part of Isaiahg 66 was addressed on the site, specifically v.17-21. I attempted to use the Google search but couldn’t find anything. Thanks for your time. God’s Peace. J____

Hi J____,
Thank you for your question.
You ask about Isa 66: 17-21. Here are those verses:

Isa 66:17  They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [ tree] in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:18  For I [ know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
Isa 66:19  And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [ to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [ to] Tubal, and Javan, [ to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Isa 66:20  And they shall bring all your brethren [ for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21  And I will also take of them for priests [ and] for Levites, saith the LORD.

Despite what you may have been taught, there is no scripture which calls the laws regarding clean and unclean meats ‘dietary laws.’ Those laws, as all of the Old Testament, are types and shadows of spiritual realities which we receive in the New Testament. Every word of this prophecy is understood only when it is understood spiritually. “Swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, all have to do with “their works and their thoughts. They have nothing at all to do with physical swine or physical mice. “The Gentiles, your brethren, Jerusalem, My holy mountain, a clean vessel and priests and Levites, are one and all spiritual and must be seen and understood accordingly.
Swine’s flesh and the mouse represent false doctrines in the same sense that entering into the Sabbath represents entering into Christ and His New Testament doctrines. But we are no longer under the law which “was added that the offense might abound.”

Gal 3:19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Clean and unclean meats were known to Adam, Cain, Abel and Noah. and not one of those people even ate meat until after the flood when God told Noah this:

Gen 9:3  Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

It has been pointed out that this verse says “even as the green herb,” and it is true that we do not eat every green herb, but the plants to be eaten were never codified other than to say:

Gen 1:29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Both man and beast were herbivores before the flood of Noah. All dinosaurs were herbivores before the flood according to these verses.
Yet Noah was told to take seven each of the clean and two each of the unclean, animals onto the ark. So clean and unclean had nothing at all to do with Noah’s diet. The laws of the offerings have to do with spiritual types and shadows of the doctrines of God as opposed to the unclean meats of the swine and the mouse, of the doctrines of Babylon. It is the doctrines we treasure in our hearts which defile us and not what goes into our mouths.

Mat 15:11  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 

Clean and unclean meats typify clean and unclean doctrines. Unclean meats are shadows of, and typify what Paul calls “strong delusion.” The truths of God’s Word are what He calls “strong meat.”

2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I hope this helps you to see that the holy spirit teaches us “comparing spiritual things [ swine and mouse], to spiritual.” It does not teach us anything when we think we are being spiritually defiled by physical swine and physical mice. Those who cannot see the spirit in God’s word, consider that spirit to be foolishness.

1Co 2:13  Which things [ spiritual things freely given us of God] also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike