Hi Mike,

When do you consider your conversion had taken place? Your baptism in Worldwide?

How do you view your worldwide journey? Do you consider that the time of God calling you?

I do mine even though I see many doctrinal problems of that church, past or present.

My baptism took place in ’68 there under David Antion. I can readily see “new truth” but have never been able to ‘prove’ to myself that I have God’s Spirit. I left WWCOG in ’95, not accepting orthodoxy, then left United Church of God and formed my own fellowship still observing Sabbath, unclean meats, etc., but have changed many doctrines. I agree with your view on all saved and hell. Perhaps at some time I would like to discuss with you where I think you are in error about the nature of God. I agree with you that Christ is a created being.

I was actually raised Old order Amish until called to Worldwide.

Thanks,

M____

p. s. Your first reply to me was very helpful.

Hi M____,

It is good to hear from you again.

No, my ‘deadly wound,’ what you call my ‘conversion,’ took place in a Pentecostal church when I was in the 7th grade. I experienced several, what seemed like huge, catastrophes in my life at that time, and I gave my life to the Lord. God was already “dragging” me to him at that young age. I was baptized as a Pentecostal, and I was re- baptized when I went to Ambassador College. In both cases, I merely got wet. The ‘man of sin,’ the ‘beast within’ (Ecc 3:18) that we all are, had not yet been revealed to me and like the “carnal… babes in Christ” Corinthians, I too, was “yet carnal.”

Look carefully at and consider well these verses of scripture. The content of these verses is true of all who are in an incorporated church. The true ‘body of Christ’ is a spiritual body; it is not an “I am of Paul” (Protestant), or “I am of Apollos” (Catholic), incorporated for tax purposes organization with a statement of beliefs and by- laws of incorporation. There is no ‘statement of beliefs’ that includes the entirety of God’s Word. It is therefore “taking away from the words of the prophecy of this book.” Now look carefully at these verses of scripture:

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

These Corinthian brothers in Christ were “sanctified in Christ Jesus, [called  not chosen] to be saints!” Not only were they ‘called to be saints,’ they were also casting out demons and healing the sick and doing many wonderful works in Christ’s name. Nevertheless, look at what Paul says of Christians who are “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints”:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

In four verses Paul tells these Corinthians who were “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints” and who “came behind in no gift” (1Co 1:7), that they “are yet carnal” and “enmity against God…” If you haven’t yet done so, be sure to read Strong Delusion. It is the law of Moses, in its varying degrees of honor, in the various churches, that is used to accomplish this “strong delusion.” This is true even though we are plainly told that “the law is not for a righteous man.” There is a law which is for a righteous man. It was not given at Sinai. That covenant “was added” only “until the time of reformation.” At any “time of reformation, “there is a change also of the law” not just “the priesthood” which administers that law.

It is truly hard to grasp how anyone can read Mat 5-7, and fail to see what a reformer Christ was! Hate your enemy is now love your enemy, eye for an eye is now return good for evil, swear by my name is now swear not at all, put away your wife because “you find no delight in her,” is now “except for fornication”. This is indeed a change:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This does not say that ‘the priesthood being changed, there is also a change of the priesthood…’ as so many want it to read, so they can cling to “the law which is not for a righteous man but for the lawless.”

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Do you believe and do things “that are contrary to the sound doctrine” of Mat 5-7? If you do, then the law of Moses is for you. If on the other hand, you see that Moses “was added” to the law that Noah and Abraham were under, if you can see that the law under discussion didn’t even exist until “four hundred and thirty years after” the covenant God made with Abraham; if you can see that…

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

… does not agree with:

Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.

Then you will understand what was meant by:

Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb [Horeb is Sinai] in the day of the assembly  [the giving of the law of Moses, adding it to the already existing law of the spirit], saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee [A reformer], and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Now here are “my words which He shall speak” concerning keeping the weekly sabbath:

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungered, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungered, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Christ here admits that He “and those that were with him” had done “that which is not lawful.” Moses had clearly taught that one should prepare for the sabbath. Christ “and those that were with Him”, had completely ignored that law, and instead of fasting they “began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.” Christ here admits that He and those with Him “profaned the sabbath.” These are the words of Christ about Himself and those that were with Him. And for what purpose does Christ tell us that he did this?

It was done to demonstrate that “in this [new covenant] place is one greater than the temple… [and] the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Now I submit to you that if Christ’s point in saying that “the Son of Man is Lord also of the sabbath” was to teach us to keep the weekly sabbath, then He is certainly sending us conflicting words; admitting that He had profaned the sabbath as the priests, and as “David and those that were with him [He had done] that which was not lawful for Him to do.” Christ was not a descendant of Aaron. Neither were his disciples. Christ was not teaching weekly sabbath observance. He was teaching that He is our rest. He was teaching that we are to enter into HIM, not one day in seven with the other six for ourselves. He was demonstrating that we are to be in Him who is “greater than the temple.”

“If Joshua had given them rest would he not have spoken of another day?” The answer to that question is yes, he would have spoken of ANOTHER day if he had given them rest. That “other day” is the day we are in, in Christ. We no longer give God one day in seven. Instead we:

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice [24 hours a day 7 days a week], holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable [Gk.- divine] service.

If we insist on keeping the weekly sabbath, then we are required to also keep the holy days, the new moons and “the whole law.”

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Paul tells us the exact same thing and calls the law “the elements of the world.”

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child [Gk.-nepios– an infant], differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children [“under the schoolmaster… before faith came”], were in bondage under the elements of the world:

You will never “know that you have God’s spirit” until you learn that “the words that I [Christ – not Moses] speak unto you are spirit.”

When you do become faithful to the “but I say unto you” word that [Christ] spoke,” then you will have no doubt that you have God’s spirit.” That is because only then will you have the “words that are spirit.” This is all in contrast to the law, the “carnal commandment” that God gave Moses for a nation that “was not a righteous [nation] but was lawless and disobedient.” It was a fading, growing-old law for the lawless and disobedient. Leave it behind and go on to a law that is impossible to keep without “Christ in you.” A law that requires so much more of you than to merely love your neighbor. When you can admit that the beast is within, that it was put there by the Potter Himself, and that it must be dethroned from the throne where Christ belongs, in God’s temple whose temple you are; when you are, with Christ in you, capable of loving your enemy, you will have no doubt that you have God’s spirit.

I know that you know this already, but ‘new truth’ is new only to us. Like the law to which Moses “was added,” the truth and the true law of the spirit is older than the universe, and it is unchanging.

In Christ “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you.” This is especially true of false doctrines and the enemies of Christ.

Num 14:9 Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land [all that is in us that withstands the words of Christ]; for they are bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the LORD is with us: fear them not.

When you become faithful to the words of Christ, your confidence in Him will give you the courage to cast out all the Canaanites and Philistines that are now occupying the land. When that happens you will be able to prove to yourself that you have God’s word which is His spirit.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Words express thoughts. When you have the thoughts of God, you have His mind and His spirit.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There is the definition of ‘life eternal.’ It is “to know God and Christ.”

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

That is it. Christ gives us “an understanding.” “My sheep know My voice, and a stranger [with a strange doctrine] they will not follow.”

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

I consider my World Wide Church of God experience to be nothing more than preparation for the calling that all of the elect have been given. It is not to save this world now. It is to “torment them that dwell upon the earth.” The ‘earth’ is a symbol that John borrowed from the Old Testament. This entire book is “SIGNified.” It isn’t ‘partly signified;’ it is entirely “signified.”

Here is the strength and force of this symbol ‘the earth:’

Jer 22:1 Thus saith the LORD; Go down to the house of the king of Judah, and speak there this word,
Jer 22:2 And say, Hear the word of the LORD, O king of Judah, that sittest upon the throne of David, thou, and thy servants, and thy people that enter in by these gates;

Now look at what God calls “the house of the king of Judah… and thy people that enter in by these gates.”

Jer 22:29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

Go back to the book of Revelation, and everywhere you see the word ‘earth,’ interpret it as ‘the backslidden people of God’, and you will get a lot more truth out of that book than you ever did before. God’s people have been pushed up out of the sea of mankind. They are just slightly above the sea. They are certainly not in heaven. Only the elect are “seated with Him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” Only the elect who are to rule all nations with a rod of iron are “caught up unto God and to His throne.”

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child [those “in Christ”], who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The rebellious woman that brought forth the manchild flees into the wilderness where she is nourished of God, just as rebellious Israel who brought forth Christ went into the wilderness where she was nourished of God. Both are said to have been taken there “on eagle’s wings.” Nevertheless, it is right here “in the wilderness” that we find this same woman in chapters 17 and 18, and just as Israel in the wilderness, they actually slay God’s two witnesses just as they would have slain Caleb and Joshua had not God stepped in to save them.

Num 14:10 But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

Here is the New Testament repeat of this same event:

Rev 11:7 And when they [God’s witnesses] shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

A prophet cannot perish outside of Jerusalem.

Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Once again, can you receive “the words of that prophet?”

“Whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.” (Deu 18:19)

Christ said:

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Our ‘dead bodies’ lie “in the streets of that great city wherein our Lord was crucified.” A prophet cannot die outside Jerusalem. We will not have covered the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come.

Our calling is to “torment them that dwell upon the earth.” It is them that “think that they do God service” that will kill us. It is the church of God to whom we are sent.

Rev 1:11 … What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia…

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

“These things” includes the events of Rev. 11. “That great city wherein our Lord was crucified” is the great city of chapters 17-18. It is all of the incorporated churches of Christianity. “Come out of her my people.”

If you haven’t yet, be sure to read Will God’s Strong Delusion Deceive You?

Don’t ‘come out of Babylon” and bring Babylon with you. You did well not to follow Joseph Takach back into orthodoxy. But if you remain under the law, you are no better than the slave that orthodoxy is.

I hope this is as helpful to you as the first letter.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I enjoy your site and have learned a lot. My former pastor said to me one day “If God blessed us only when we deserved it, we would never get blessed.” Is there any truth to that?
Thanks,
T____

Hi T____,
Thank you for your question, and I am pleased that you “have learned a lot.”
You ask:

My former pastor said to me one day “If God blessed us only when we deserved it, we would never get blessed.” Is there any truth to that?

Here is what the scriptures teach:

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So yes, that is certainly true. Such statements as that are common among the orthodox pastors of all the churches of Babylon. They all seem to realize that God’s grace is given to undeserving sinners. They are read and quote Paul’s statement:

1Ti 1:15 This [ is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The apostle Paul was not claiming to be the very worst man who had ever lived, but he had made a career of persecuting the church before he was struck down on the road to Damascus, and he considered himself to be a pattern for Christ’s mercy. It is very instructive to know that the word ‘chief’ in verse 15 and the word ‘first’ in the following verse are both translated from the one Greek word ‘protos’:

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

This Greek word ‘protos’ appears 100 times in the New Testament, and of that 100 entries, 89 of those entries are translated with the English word ‘first’, as in ‘first lady’.

Paul is not claiming to be the very first Christian, any more that Michelle Obama is the very first American lady. But he is telling us that because it was he who was “breathing out slaughter” against the first Christians when he was struck down on the road to Damascus, that Christ was using him as “a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to [ completely undeserved] life everlasting. The apostle Paul was not walking along the road to Damascus using his so called “free will” and asking Christ to forgive him of his sins. Paul thought he was actually doing what the law of Moses called for:

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [ you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

The apostle Paul considered Christ and all who followed Him to be false prophets whom he was commanded to “put to death,” and Paul was diligently living by those words. God had not yet given Paul his spiritual vision. Paul could not yet see that the very law he was so diligently observing also prophesied of a day of reformation by a Great Reformer:

Heb 9:10 Which [ law of Moses] stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Moses was a great reformer who forbade Israel from continuing in the former practice of building an altar at just any convenient place. After Moses it became a sin worthy of death to offer an offering anywhere other than at the tabernacle of Moses, and later at the temple in Jerusalem. All arguments to the contrary, there was no law requiring the keeping of the sabbath or tithing until Moses:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression,

Scripturally speaking “there was no law… from Adam to Moses.” So just as Moses was a reformer who brought in the law, so too, was Christ a reformer who brought in a New Law:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This too, was foretold in the law of Moses, but Paul simply could not see it:

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me [ a reformer]; unto him ye shall hearken;

This is all dealt with in depth in the paper entitled, The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit in the Essential Reading on iswasandwillbe.
Paul certainly was not doing anything worthy of being given the calling he was given so, yes indeed! “If God blessed us only when we deserved it we would never get blessed.”
What that should reveal to your former pastor and to any reasonable mind is the truth of these verses:

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [ not exclusively] of those that believe.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Too often the word ‘bless’ is spelled with dollar signs for those two s’s. It is seldom seen for the dying process that is God’s grace. Read the letter on The Purpose and Function of Grace, in that section of the FAQ’s on iswasandwillbe. com.
There is one event to all. Whether righteous or wicked, we will all endure the wrath of God on all of our ungodliness and unrighteousnesses. The only difference is that of timing and reward. The promise of life, symbolized by the payment of a day’s wages in the parable of the workers in the vineyard, is common to all mankind:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; [ and] he that sweareth, as [ he] that feareth an oath.
Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received [ it], they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought [ but] one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? [ A days wages]
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The “few chosen” are those who are paid first. That is the point of the parable. It points out how good it is of God to save all, even as he is being accused of being unjust by those who “have borne the heat of the day.”
We were chosen and elected in Christ “before the world began” so our own will has nothing to do with our election:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [ us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Salvation was promised to “all in Adam:”

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Did your free will cause you to be “in Adam?” Of course not. It was a sovereign work of God.
I hope this helps you to see that we really are blessed by God even when we do not deserve it. But I hope you can also see that this principle is just as applicable to unbelievers as it is to “those who believe.”
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I have been a little disoriented lately with confusion regarding the Scriptures. I agree with your comment that Truth does not change. But when I came across Deu 22:20-21 or any other instance of encouraging death by stoning, I have found it hard to stomach that that could be Truth (not to mention unchanging Truth).
I apologize up front if I misunderstood or have been unable to understand what you meant by “Truth does not change.”
Thank you for any insight,

N____

Hi N____,

Thank you for your question regarding death by stoning in Deuteronomy.

Deu 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

This is the carnal law God gave Moses to govern carnal life in the nation of ancient Israel.

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

If a woman was proven to have had sex outside of marriage, she was to be stoned to death. The verses which follow instructed that ancient nation do the same if a man was caught having sex with another man’s wife.

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Now let’s contrast these words concerning the judgment meted out for adultery and fornication under Moses, to the new “law of Christ”.

Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

These “scribes and Pharisees” are the very same people who today have nothing better to do than to take the time to find fault with their own brothers and sisters in Christ, who have done nothing but feed them spiritual “loaves and fishes”, and heal them of their spiritual diseases. If those who are of this spirit had any true interest in what was actually in the scriptures, they would have gone to those scriptures, and they would have trembled before those words, instead of quoting only what was convenient for them to attempt to accuse the Christ of God.

Joh 8:11  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What is the difference between the law of Christ and that of Moses? Christ did not condemn her for her sin, which was nothing more that the fruit of the law of sin which Christ himself had placed within that woman at creation. But neither did he condone her actions. This woman, just like each of us, was shown mercy. Now would that mercy have ended if she did commit adultery again?

Psa 107:1  O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever [ Hebrew, olawm].

Isn’t it interesting that the people who want the Hebrew word ‘olawm’ to mean ‘eternity’ when it comes to the subject of hell, don’t believe it means that in this verse? Now since the law of Moses did not provide for mercy, it was not Truth, but it was a temporary carnal commandment for a carnal nation “till the seed should come to whom the promise was made”. Notice how scripture contrasts the law of Moses to the law of Christ.

Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

So the only people who claim that the law of Moses was Truth are those who do not believe Joh 1:17.
Just as manna seemed to be the true “bread from heaven”, and Christ Himself labeled it as such when giving it to Israel in the wilderness, it was nevertheless just a shadow and a type of the true “bread from heaven”.

Exo 16:4  Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Joh 6:31  Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Was manna really “bread from heaven”? Only in type and shadow. It was, in reality merely a shadow of the true bread from heaven which gives us true and lasting nourishment.

Joh 6:48  I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49  Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:58  This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

So that is the truth of the entire economy of ancient Israel. “They were not ministering to themselves but to us”. These things all happened to them, and they were all written down for us as types and shadows of us.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples [ Greek, typos, type, shadow]: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

So everything that happened under that law was “unto us” and “not unto themselves”. You will find no Jews who would agree with that statement, and the same is true for the Christian world. Nevertheless there it is. The entire Mosaic system is just a shadow of how we are to show no mercy to the adulterous false doctrines within us which stem from the doctrines of that great harlot, Babylon.
If indeed God were not intent upon saving all men, and the world denies this, then He would indeed be a monster. But he is in the process of saving all, and He will do so through you and me if we are granted to be in that “blessed and holy first resurrection”.
So I hope that these verses of God’s Word will help you to see that God is saving all “through death” and that the end of a thing really is better than its beginning, no matter what that end is. It is through the relinquishing of this body that our new body is given, and it is the same event for all; even the women and the men who were and are stoned for adultery.

Ecc 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth.
Ecc 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

I pray these verses help you to see that God is, was and always will be an unchanging, loving heavenly Father, who will, through the different dispensations and through even death, bring us all to Himself in His own appointed time.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I had a question about Matthew chapter 5.  I read your paper the Law of Moses vs. The Law of the Spirit. Thank you for that paper. It was the best I’ve encountered on that topic. I was hoping you could comment on my below question. I heard a belief that Christ’s teachings in Mat 5 were not the Laws of Christ; they were Jesus reforming the Laws of Moses to eliminate any doubt in any body’s mind that salvation could come by works of the law, and when faith comes and we are no longer under a schoolmaster these teachings in Mat 5 are no different than the 10 commandments. We as Christians obeying the Laws of Christ are found solely in the fruits of the Spirit in Gal 5.

Thanks again for your time.
Your Brother in Christ,
M____

Hi M____,
Thank you for your question.
You say:

I heard a belief that Christ’s teachings in Mat 5 were not the Laws of Christ; they were Jesus reforming the Laws of Moses to eliminate any doubt in any body’s mind that salvation could come by works of the law, and when faith comes and we are no longer under a schoolmaster, these teachings in Mat 5 are no different than the 10 commandments. We as Christians obeying the Laws of Christ are found solely in the fruits of the Spirit in Gal 5.

I honestly cannot follow such a way of thinking. Christ’s reformation of the law becomes the law of Christ for this simple reason:

Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

“This generation” is the generation reading these words of Christ. If we read and understand Christ’s words, we fulfill them. His words are His law, and “they shall never pass away.”

Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 9:10  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

I hope that helps you to understand that Christ’s words and His law are one and the same.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Posted October 23, 2005

Greetings,

I ran across your article about the Law of Moses and the Law of the Spirit and would like to offer a rebuttal. You are breaking the 4th commandment and teaching men to do the same. I don’t know how you “cease from your works seven days out of seven” EVEN as God did, when God clearly rested on the seventh day and not seven out of seven. When do you work if you cease seven out of seven days?

The word, ‘rest,’ in Heb 4:9 is sabbatismos (a keeping of the sabbath). You will notice that the rest of the time the word rest is the Greek word, katapauo. The Sabbath pictures the millennial rest (6000 years, 1000 rest) when the Kingdom of God will reign on earth. Many understood that the Sabbath pictured a LITERAL, PHYSICAL rest. The Israelites understood that the Sabbath pictured the rest that was given to Israel upon entering the land of Canaan (Jos 22:4). However, this was only a type as the land of Canaan is a type of the future rest for the people of God. The writer of Hebrews had to clarify the issue because many thought that the possession of the land of Canaan was the fulfillment of the Sabbath. That is why the writer reminds his readers that if that were so why did David say TODAY (in David’s time) that there still is a rest yet to be entered. Verse 8 clearly states that if the land of Canaan was supposed to be the ultimate fulfillment then why was David mentioning TODAY? The answer is that the Sabbath pictures the rest in the Kingdom of God and interesting enough in the Kingdom of God ALL FLESH (including you) WILL come to worship the LORD on the Sabbath (Isa 66:23). Also read Zec 14:16-19 and find out that ALL nations will be keeping the Feast (AARGHHH!) of Tabernacles. One of the main points of Heb 4 is that as long as there is a rest remaining to be entered, the PEOPLE OF GOD are required to keep the seventh day holy by ceasing from their works even as God did.

If the Sabbath ceased to be an issue, why did the Apostles continue to teach Jews AND GENTILES on the Sabbath day? Do you know better than they?

J____

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [In direct contradiction to:]
Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Matt12:2 But when the Pharisees [ people devoid of spiritual wisdom who observe shadows and types] saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.[ Was that true?]
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful [ Christ agreed with the Pharisees. He and His disciples, Like David were doing that “which was not lawful”] for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? [ Were Christ’s disciples priests? Absolutely not!]
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? [ And you want me to believe that Christ is saying ‘The priests profaned the sabbath and are guiltless, so I and my disciples are guiltless because we have not done anything of the type.’ Is that what you want me to believe Christ is saying here? I don’t think so. I think that His point here is this:]
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. [ Why is Christ guiltless? Is it because he did not “profane the sabbath as the priests?” Is it because he did not do that “which is not lawful?” Or is it because…]
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

And what did Christ do after making this crystal clear point that He IS our sabbath?

Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: [Simply because that is where the people were]

Were they in error?

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye [ a person devoid of spiritual wisdom who observes shadows and types)”] cannot bear them now.

It was a “time of reformation” . It was a time of transition from the old to the new. Read that article. I don’t believe you even read the article. It covered all of this plus Luk 5, which a person who observes shadows would not understand:

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old [ wine] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

“The new agrees not with the old” are again the words of Christ.

Again, if what you said is true, then why do the Apostles observe and teach on the Sabbath AND observe the annual Holy Days (see 1Co 5:6-8).

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. [ You know, like the “unleavened bread,” of Mat 12 1-8].

Jesus Christ criticized the Talmudic interpretations of the Sabbath (over 1500 rules) which he called traditions of the elders which made void the commandments of God. Criticism of abuse of the Sabbath does not constitute abrogation of a commandment.

Here is what God’s spirit inspired John to write. This gospel, by Christ’s beloved apostle refers to every feast as “a feast of the Jews.” Here is how the spirit inspired John to record for our benefit, what the spirit says Christ had done:

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Had Christ claimed to be God? Yes, He had (though NOT God the Father)! Had he broken and profaned the sabbath and done that which was not lawful? He said He had. Now should I believe Christ, or should I believe you and the entire “historical orthodox Christian church.”

I would like to know if you keep Christmas and Easter? Just curious.

I do not observe Christmas or Easter or any other days, months, times or years. But now I too, am curious. Do you observe this verse of scripture?

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Is all of this work I have done in pointing out all of these scriptures for you in vain?

Sincerely ,

Mike – a person who recognizes that :

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

A person who does not say:

Luk 5:39 … The old is better.

Posted July 21, 2005

Sir,

Does not Paul warn us of “false teachers and unprincipled men” Anti- nomians in Greek, those against the Laws of God. Paul as ‘zealous for the Law”. Not “under Law but Under Grace” would be translated

1. Not Under God’s Law- which Christ is God, and that would mean we are free to murder.
2. Not Under Legalism- which we are not saved by works, but loving God means keeping his Commandments. Which is what Paul constantly states.
3. Not Under Roman Law.

Paul told the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.

Revelation says that those who are in heaven “have faith in Jesus Christ and Keep the Commands of God”.

Luk 4:16, Jesus kept the Sabbath. Gathering large bundles of food, as in farming would be breaking the Sabbath, but not walking by a vineyard and picking a grape. If Christ did break the Sabbath or sin in any other regard, he could not have been the Messiah.

Paul warned against teachings that mute the Laws of God, it is called the Spirit of Jezebel in Revelations. That is, changing the Laws of God to fit culture.

Sabbaths, plural and lower case, as it is when Paul “Rabbi Sha’ul” speaks of them along with new moons, refers to Jewish Festivals such as the feast of unleavened bread. That’s why he did not say “The Sabbath”. Why did the Jews never try to stone Paul for breaking the Sabbath? Or the other Apostles? The Pharisees made up their own rules about the Sabbath as recorded in the Talmud, but they were notin the Torah.

If men begin to delete God’s Commands, where does it end? Should we not ask not God wants for us, not what we can squeeze out of?

Please remember that you will be accountable to God for changing his times a laws, which is a mark of Anti- Christ.

B____

Hi B___,

Thank you for your concern for my spiritual welfare and for taking the time to write this letter.

Of course I will have to disagree with everything you’ve said here. It does not follow that since Christ came and reformed the law that therefore we “we are free to murder”. It was what Christ always referred to as “the law of Moses” that taught us to murder our enemies:

Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [ for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

Contrast this law with this new law:

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Now you tell me, which law do I keep? Do I keep what Paul called “the law of Christ”, or do I keep what Christ called “the law of Moses?” Should I love my enemies, or should I “save alive nothing that breaths”? Does not our rejection of Christ’s law and our support for those who reject Christ in the middle east, show us where this “eye for an eye… elements of the world… law of Moses,” leads us?

You say:

Paul told the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.

Do you have a scripture for that assertion? If Paul thought we should keep the law of Moses, then why would he make such an assertion as this:

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

And what was it that lead Paul to this “Blasphemous, persecuting, and injurious” state? Here are Paul’s own words telling us why he was that way:

Php 3:6 Concerning zeal [ for the law of Moses], persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law [ of Moses], blameless.
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Is Paul admitting to breaking the law of Moses by “persecuting the church and being zealous of the traditions of my fathers?” No, he is not. He was blameless, according to this law of which you think so highly. And the way he showed his zeal for this law was by hating and persecuting his enemy just as the law requires.

If Christ was so careful to “keep the law,” then why did He not obey this part of it?:

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Did Christ not want to “Put away evil from Israel?” Show me the words “Neither do I condemn thee,” in your beloved “ministration of condemnation”. So you see, it is not me you are calling “Anti- Christ,” it is Christ Himself who did all the “changing”.

I never cease to be amazed at how the defenders of “the ministration of death” are able to equate ‘hate thine enemy’ with ‘love thine enemy;’ How ‘return good for evil’ is not seen as a contradiction of ‘an eye for an eye;’ and how “Swear by my name only” is not seen as a contradiction of “swear not at all.” And you accuse me of “changing God’s law”!

I have changed nothing. Christ, on the other hand, has ‘changed both the priesthood and the law.’

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The scriptures answer every question you pose. I have written and posted letters responding to this law article. They are on www. iswasandwillbe. com/. Read all the letters concerning the paper on the law.

You know fully well I do not teach lawlessness. I teach and follow “the law of Christ.” You still teach what Christ referred to as ‘the law of Moses’ which law Christ came to change. Is there a “change of the priesthood?” Most Christians will readily acknowledge that there has been a change of the priesthood. Well, if indeed that is the case, then “there must of necessity be a change also of the law.”

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Paul speaks clearly of those who think of Christ’s work as ‘Anti- Christ:’

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

See that word ‘change?’ I didn’t write that word. And it appears in the context of the law of Moses versus the law of the Spirit. There is now a law that is so far superior to the law of Moses that the law of Moses has no glory in comparison. It is a new law. There is an undeniable “change,” from ‘Kill every thing that breaths” to “neither do I condemn thee.”

I will pray that God will give you the faith to accept the changes that Christ came to reveal.

Mike

Posted December 22, 2004

Mr. Vinson –

I have read your paper on the two laws and have a question concerning mixing the old w/ the new. Most (if not all) of Church going Christians believe in some aspect of the law of Moses (tithing, Sunday observances, etc) as a necessity for good. Do most [ people], in your view do these things because of tradition (as being a good practice) or out of necessity for salvation? I have for a long while separated myself from these so- called commandments of do’s and don’ts really because of a deep belief that if you have faith in Christ and are no longer under the old law – why would you need or want these outward signs? This makes me somewhat at odds with the rest of my family (“oh, that’s the way he is – he is just rebellious”). As a result, every time respectfully I bring these things up – I’m the one that is confused sort of. I am confused all right in that I don’t understand – what is the motive?

Thanks,
M____

Hi M____,

Thank you for your question.

There is no doubt that going to church on Sunday is a tradition. But most Christians will tell you in a heartbeat that this and a multitude of other outward acts (the sinner’s prayer, water baptism, the Lord’s supper or Eucharist, tithing etc.) are absolutely essential for the salvation of a Christian. The Truth, of course is that nothing outward changes anything inward. The change must come within. Outward displays impress no one in the spirit realm.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

We are so into the “things that are seen,” that we actually believe that Christ was instituting another ritual when He washed the apostles’ feet. He was not! He tells us that He was setting us an example of service one to another.

The consequence of such an outward approach to scripture is that while the whole Christian world is looking for an outward ‘beast,’ the true beast is reigning supreme on the very throne where Christ out to be. Be sure to read archive 2 regarding the condition of the Christian church today, as revealed in the book of Revelation. If you haven’t yet read Strong Delusion. God has sent “strong delusion to those He has deceived.

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze 14:10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

So don’t be too harsh on those who are deceived by outward things. Pray that God will remove the veil of the outward and give them eyes to see the “things of the spirit.”

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [ vail] is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

What is their motive for refusing to see the ‘things of the spirit?’ It can be anything from losing one’s hired preacher’s paycheck, to the pure pride of those who support their hired teachers and preachers. It can be anything but a good healthy fear of God and the plain truths of His Word.

I hope you will take the time to read the article and letters on the web page. There is a wealth of information there that will cost you nothing but your whole life for Christ.

Mike

Mike,

Thank you so much for your website. I have learned so much from your articles but I do have a question (maybe it’s more like a ‘statement’).
I’ve noticed in several of your articles, you use the term ‘Christ contradicts the law’. In my mind, this statement at its face value is just not true. Christ did not ‘contradict’ the law. He fulfilled the law bringing the new covenant of the Spirit and His “… but I say…” were ‘different’ because He is telling us that it’s not what we DO, it’s what is in our hearts (spiritual character).
In other words, the law gives us the letter (do’s and don’ts) which is bondage because we cannot keep it! He fulfilled it by revealing the nature, character, LOVE and spiritual capability of our being ONE with Him and our Father that a list of LAWS written in stone could never do. His law, once we are crucifying the old man and the Spirit is dwelling in us, is changing our hearts (minds); therefore, we begin to not even THINK to ‘do’ or ‘not do’ as we mature spiritually. That is freedom… no longer slave to sin (not the doing… but the not thinking of doing). Of course, it is a constant war, but the battles get much easier as our carnality dies daily with Him and we become overcomers.
His examples of laboring (in the Jews’ minds) on the Sabbath, etc. were not contradictions, they were His saying ‘You no longer have to worry about those lists because I have done them all for you – now you let Me live in you and release you from that which enslaved you (the physical do’s and don’ts) that did NOTHING to reveal your Father’s love for you or to open your hearts to loving your neighbor/ enemy. In fact, those lists did just the opposite filling your hearts with lust and closing your minds to the true meaning of God’s love!”
I don’t know if I’m explaining myself very well, and maybe it’s not even an important point, but using the word contradict gives a different perception to me. He could not contradict what He fulfilled, but He could show us the SPIRITUAL meaning which is the fulfillment. I hope you understand my objection to the use of that term and, again, it may not be of great importance, but every time I see it, I feel the need to offer my objections. If I am wrong, please tell me why.
Thank you so much,
B____

Hi B____,

I am gratified to know that you have learned a lot from the articles on the website. Thank you also for your ‘statement’. I appreciate the time you have taken to express your concern, but I must point out that it is the scriptures themselves which demonstrate that the New Testament is simply not the Old Testament but is rather a “change also of the Law”.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

That is why Christ didn’t even bother to ask where the man was that was caught with the woman who was caught in adultery. Moses required the death of both, but Christ was changing things and actually refused to even consider the law in that case. Here is the law of Moses that Christ should have kept according to those who do not realize that Christ came as a reformer.

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [ both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

That is the “carnal” letter which is the law, and that is all the law of Moses had. There is no Biblical basis for saying that the New Testament is simply the spirit of the law of Moses. There is no spirit in the letter, and there was no mercy, and there was no faith in the letter.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

That is why Christ “changed also the law.” There was no mercy in the law of Moses. It was letter only. Christ’s New Testament is now spirit and mercy, and yet it takes us to a much higher standard than was even possible without the spirit of Christ being in us. We are now commanded to love our enemies, and to not so much as lust after a woman in our hearts. If we so much as hate our brother we are now murderers. It is a “new commandment” and a change also of the law” when it is compared to the merciless, faithless, letter of the law that is the “kill of your enemies every thing that breatheth.”

Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [ for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

I have written an in depth paper on this subject which is found in the essential reading section of the iswasandwillbe. com home page. That section is in the upper left corner of the home page. Please take the time to read that paper, as it is very thorough and far more complete than an e- mail could possibly be on such a broad subject as the law.
If after reading that paper, you still have concerns then please write again.
Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Mike,

This is a follow-up question regarding a prior dialog [Who Can Eat of the Sin Offering?] This question came to mind after I read your response. In John 6:47-66, Jesus uses a lot references to sacrifice that the disciples he was talking to understood because of the law that was imposed on their race by Moses due to the transgression in the wilderness. He was proclaimed by John the Baptist as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world in John 1:29. I would presume many of the disciples present observed this proclamation by John the Baptist and some were former disciples of John the Baptist. This sets the scene for a couple of observations and some questions, Mike, and you can handle this in any way you see fit. I may miss some observations that are important to the subject matter. Those disciples listening to Jesus were many, and they all were quite familiar with the sacrificial system of the law. So here is the man who John the Baptist said was the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world and who would be a sin offering, talking to these disciples. And he is saying unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will not have life in you.

Now these disciples he is talking to know that it is taboo to eat the sin offering and the drinking of the blood was strictly forbidden. It was certainly custom to eat the passover lamb, which is also a type of Jesus, but the drinking of the blood was still a taboo. All in all, many questions and a large degree of confusion and possibly disgust were felt by the disciples. Is it any wonder that many of the disciples left? What Jesus was saying in many ways was a cultural affront to the people he was addressing. It seems to me that the disciples would have associated Jesus’ words with a sin sacrifice as he, Jesus, was the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Is this in anyway connected with Hebrews 13:13 and bearing his reproach? Also, in a way, it is a strict anti-type of the sacrificial system and the rules regarding what you could eat of the sacrifice and the use of the blood. This whole incident brings many questions to mind and has many spiritual implications that I may be failing to see.
L____

Hi L____,

Thank you for your observations concerning Christ requiring us to drink His blood.

As you point out, all of Israel was familiar with the eating of the Passover lamb, but Israel was strictly forbidden from either eating human flesh or drinking the blood of any creature because “the life is in the blood.”

Lev 17:10  And whatsoever man [there be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11  For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 17:12  Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Yes, it is true, the word ‘life’ is the Hebrew word ‘nephesh‘, but the nephesh is sustained by the “breath of God,” so the message is the same. The breath of the nephesh typifies the spirit of God which gives life. God’s spirit was not yet available under the Old Testament because the true “Lamb of God” had not yet been sacrificed for the sins of mankind.

Israel could not eat the blood “for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you … to make an atonement for the soul.” However, that atonement was not being applied to anyone until Christ came and shed His blood. “It was not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to cleanse the things of the heavens.”

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23  [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

“Now to appear in the presence of God for us… the heavenly things themselves.” That is what everything we read of in the Old Testament prefigures and shadows and typifies:

1Co 10:6 Now these things became types of us, for us not to be lusters after evil things, (CLV)

The whole of the Old Testament experience was not for themselves but for us:

1Pe 1:12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

So the reason Israel could not eat Christ’s flesh, or drink His blood was because the time had not yet come to be able to do so “because the life [Christ] was in the blood,” and Israel was not, at that time, capable of receiving the flesh or blood of Christ. Christ came as a reformer, and carnal Israel, was totally unable to receive those reforms:

Joh 16:12  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Christ spoke those words the night of His apprehension by the Jews, and He said of His own 12 apostles, “ye cannot bear them now.” It was not yet time that they were given to “eat His flesh and drink His blood.” Both were forbidden under the lifeless law of Moses.

Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 3:21  Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

However, life was not given in the law. Life comes only by “eating my flesh and drinking my blood.”

Joh 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life…” What does it mean to eat Christ’s flesh, and drink His blood, and have eternal life? Here is what that means:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Knowing God and Christ, via the Word, which is Christ, is eternal life. Christ is the true bread which came down from heaven and gives life to all men:

Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Here is another letter written on this subject to a young man who did not understand how symbols in scripture were interpreted. It goes into that subject as well as what is meant by drinking Jesus blood, but his letter covers many of the Old Testament scriptures which are not in this letter.

How Does one Drink the Blood of Jesus?

I hope that helps you to understand why we can now ‘eat’ Christ’s flesh and drink His blood in spite of how repulsive those words were to those who first heard them. In truth, the full import of those words are to this day repulsive to us all when we first hear that we, too, are to die daily with Christ and to be resurrected in newness of life in Christ.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Dear Mike,
I hope you and yours and doing well. I have always been puzzled by the account of David and Bathsheba. Here we have a man having intercourse with a married woman, and the law clearly stating that under such circumstances both the man and the woman were to be put to death.

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: s o shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

And yet, instead of that, God puts their child to death and allows David and Bathsheba to live. Why were they not killed? We know that David repented of his sin, but then I wonder if for example, anyone else committed this act, that they could avoid the death penalty by repenting as well, or were David and Bathsheba an exception to the norm. I am not so sure if this has any bearing on this issue or not, but when the woman caught in adultery was brought before Jesus, (interestingly the man wasn’t, whoever he was) he did not command her to be put to death either, but showed mercy. I guess I always thought the  law was basically unforgiving and unbending as to its application. Any thoughts on this, brother?
Thanks,
R____

Hi R____
You ask why David and Bathsheba were not put to death according to the law of Moses. The answer from scripture is that “this happened to them and it was written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.”

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I have written two papers which bear on this subject which I hope you find the time to read. They are The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit and Rightly Dividing The Word Using A Principle Which Only The Apostles Understood.
I simply do not have the time to rehash those two lengthy papers, but suffice it to say that Christ came as a reformer, as He was prophesied to be from when the law was first given. These words were uttered at Sinai at the giving of the law:

Deu 18:15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16  According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb [ Sinai] in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17  And the LORD said unto me, They have well [ spoken that] which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, a nd will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19  And it shall come to pass, [ that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [ it] of him.
Deu 18:20  But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Just as it is today, God’s people do not want to hear what He has to say. They want someone else to tell them what God says and then if they like it they will listen, but they had better not be told that they are called to be crucified with and die daily with Christ. That is not a marketable message.
The only time Israel is recorded as saying, “ Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not” was at Sinai.
So Christ knew that the law of Moses was but a parenthetical period in His plan and purpose which would serve simply to show mankind his inability to obey even physical commandments, much less much more demanding spiritual concepts like “resist not evil… love thine enemies… don’t even look on a woman to lust after her in you heart…” etc.
It was the Old Testament prophets who declared that God was not interested in outward acts of obedience, but in inward spiritual obedience from a converted heart within.

1Sa 15:22  And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Samuel was both a judge and a prophet. Christ was well aware of these words which He had inspired Samuel to record. And He also inspired these words which he utilized with both King David and the woman caught in adultery.

Hos 6:6  For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

So Christ reminds the self- righteous Jews that they, like their father Judah as regarding his daughter- in- law Tamar, are all worthy of death, and then He speaks the most wonderful words that have ever been heard by man:

Joh 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [ his] finger wrote on the ground, [ as though he heard them not].
Joh 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8  And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9  And they which heard [ it], being convicted by [ their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [ even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10  When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

You and I have had an extended discussion about the concept of “living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” This story is a perfect example of how we all are destined to do so. If you or I read this story and think in our hearts what the Pharisee thought of the publican, ‘Oh, I am so thankful to God that I have never been such a self- righteous person as those Jewish scribes and Pharisees,’ then we have at that very moment, said in our hearts that ‘These words which have proceeded out of the mouth of God (in “what is written” 1Co 4:6) are not for me, because I have never done, and would never do such a self- righteous thing.’
That is a lie on the part of any human being. The only reason any one of us does not succumb to the lowest pulls of the flesh is that God himself has hedged out the Adversary and has not permitted us to be so “sifted” as to commit those heinous deeds.

Luk 22:31  And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

So it is with all who serve Christ. They do so because He is in them, and their days of their service to Him, with Him in them, “were written in His book before any of those days were.” None of us serves God simply because we have and have exercised our own free will to obey God.

Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them (ASV).

If there is any truth to this verse of Psalms, then there is also great hidden truth in these verses:

Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

If the scriptures are true, and it is “Not of him that wills, but of God who either shows mercy or hardens,” if Joseph’s brothers were not responsible for Joseph being sold into slavery, if Jacob and Esau were preordained to do what they did to one another “while they were yet in their mother’s womb, having done neither good nor evil,” then the words of Christ are also true, and we all will “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, keep the sayings of the words of this prophecy and drink of this cup.” It is all already written in His book and we will live by every word.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Jer 25:13  And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.
Jer 25:15  For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
Jer 25:16  And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.
Jer 25:17  Then took I the cup at the LORD’S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
Jer 25:18  To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day;
Jer 25:28  And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.

Samson married a Philistine woman of Timnath, contrary to the commandment of God, and yet we are told “it was of the Lord.”

Jdg 14:4  But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the LORD, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel.

If Samson’s marriage to a Philistine woman, was “of the Lord,” why are not our sins also “after the counsel of His own will” and a matter of living every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God? Of course, that is exactly what they are:

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Why weren’t David and Bathsheba stoned for their adultery? It was to tell us that Christ was coming to reverse the law’s claim on us for our spiritual adultery. Why did Christ not keep the law of Moses which required that the man and the woman caught in adultery be stoned to death? It was because He had come as a new spiritual priesthood, and “there being a change in the priesthood there must be a change also of the law,” a change from the carnal letter of Moses to the new, even more impossible, “law of the spirit…”

Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14  For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15  And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

But the application of that change is to teach us to compare spiritual things with spiritual and not spiritual with physical. Spiritually you and I are both the scribes and the Pharisees wanting to stone a woman who is less of a sinner than are we. We are Judah who wants Tamar burned. We are also the woman caught in the very act of spiritual adultery with Babylon and all of her false and blasphemous doctrines, and we are also both the good seed and the tares. That is why both grow together in us until the harvest which is the day of judgment that the house of God is now in.

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14  If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15  But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.
1Pe 4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17  For the time [ is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [ it] first [ begin] at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

We are not to “suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters” because we have already lived that part of the “words that have proceeded out of the mouth of God.”

Eph 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We “live by every word of God,” not just the good words of God. To deny this is to deny all these scriptures which tell us that it is God who creates “the wicked” you and me for the “day of evil” in each of us. Our every thought and action is “from the Lord.”

Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

I hope this does not offend you, but I must point out that this 4th verse tells us that all wickedness is “for Himself” and for the specific purpose of working out His “predestinated… days that were ordained for” us all.
I hope this has answered your question about why God did not have David and Bathsheba stoned, why Christ did not stone the woman caught in adultery, and I also hope that it has helped you to see that Christ is judging His christ now, and is binding the tares in bundles to be burned, now as we live out every word that has ever proceeded out of His mouth, not in letter but in spirit.

1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [ which God has for this time blinded, to His Truth].
Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike    I was asked by a friend this question:  if God doesn’t want us to kill our enemies than why did He have Israel wipe out their enemies?     I clearly see that we are not to take someone’s life literally or in our hearts by hating.  We are to love all, for God is love, and I am his son and He is in the process of perfecting that same love in me.  Plus He is Sovereign, and He causes the enemy to do what they do.  So one thought is that God told them to kill their enemies, but He tells us now to love them?     I do have another question about sin.  I see several places where it says those that are of God cannot sin.  My current understanding of this is we do miss the mark even now, but God will not hold it against us since we are his children.  For the son of the king doesn’t pay tribute for we are not under the law or its penalty? Have a very blessed weekend D____

Hi D____,
This subject is covered in quite a bit of detail in The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit.
In the sermon on the mount Christ is clearly reforming the law of Moses. Not once does Christ call it the ‘law of God.’ He always calls it “Moses’ law.”

Mat 19:8  He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

When we go back to the law and read it, the Pharisees were right. God, through Moses, permitted a man to put away his wife for almost any reason. Even if it was simply because he no longer “delighted in her.”

Deu 21:14  And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

… or if a man “found some uncleaness in her.”

Deu 24:1  When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2  And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

This “uncleaness” had nothing to do with adultery because the penalty for that was death. This “uncleaness” could be either personal or domestic hygiene. In other words a man could put his wife away for most any reason, under the law of Moses. All that was required of the man was that he write her a bill of divorcement, “and she may go and be another man’s wife.”
Women had no such rights under the law of Moses. I mention all of this to demonstrate that Christ came as a reformer.

Heb 9:10  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Christ’s appearance on the scene was “the time of reformation.” Until that time, killing their enemies and putting away unclean wives who no longer delighted them, were all types and shadows of spiritual realities of what is spiritually taking place in the spiritual lives of God’s elect since Christ:

Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [ and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

… or to say the same thing in other words:

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

So Israel’s putting away of unclean wives is a shadow of our “coming out of Babylon” and putting off the uncleaness of the flesh:

Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

And the “killing of anything that breathes” is our killing the sins and lusts and illicit passions of the flesh which rule our lives while we are still in the flesh and still in Babylon:

Deu 20:16  But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

Why did God cause all of this to happen? Why is this written down? Again:

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

“The ends of the aions” had not come upon the Old Testament saints. This was revealed to the prophets. They were actually made by God’s spirit to understand that all they did and all they wrote was being done, not for themselves, but for those to whom salvation would later come. It is through us that they will later be brought to God.

1Pe 1:9  Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10  Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [ that should come] unto you:
1Pe 1:11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

This is a hard pill for orthodox Christianity to swallow simply because their whole doctrinal house stands on the sand of the immortality of the soul and judgment at the moment of death. Nevertheless God’s Word is true and every doctrine of men is a lie designed to keep us from knowing Him and Christ:

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Your second question about “cannot sin” is addressed in 1 Peter:

1Pe 4:1  Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

“Hath ceased from sin” and “cannot sin” are one and the same thing. It is a matter of “abiding in sin” versus “abiding in Christ” and being of  “the same mind” as Christ. If we have Christ’s mind, then we are to reckon ourselves as dead with Christ to sin and risen with Christ to righteousness:

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

“If we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” This is a daily process that requires us to “die daily” as we are daily living as “quickened together with Him.”

Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

So when John says…:

1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

… the word translated ‘commit’ is also correctly translated as ‘continue’ and ‘abode.’  Here are the verses:

Jas 4:13  Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue [ Greek, poieo] there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue [ Greek, poieo] forty and two months.
Act 20:2  And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece,
Act 20:3  And there abode [ Greek, poieo] three months. And when the Jews laid wait for him, as he was about to sail into Syria, he purposed to return through Macedonia.

When we “die daily” Christ increases as we decrease:

Joh 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.

So then, “doth not commit sin” would better be translated ‘doth not contiue in or abide in sin.’
“Cannot sin” is then understood as ‘cannot continue to abide in sin.’

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Never do the scriptures teach that flesh is perfected. Quite the contrary:

Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [ this] one thing [ I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Verse 15, “be perfect,” does not contradict verse 12, “not as though I were already perfect.” Rather verse 15 is explained by verse 12. Paul is being perfected as he “dies daily.”

1Co 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Finally we are plainly told:

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I hope this helps you to see that perfection is not some thing we achieve while still in the vessel of marred clay. We have this perfect treasure, Christ, as our head and our captain of our faith. He has gone before us and has returned to be with us to the end of our age. We have this treasure, but we have it in marred and earthen vessels:

2Co 4:7  But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Not even Christ’s flesh was fit to inherit the kingdom of God. But the resurrected Christ is the Christ we now know and have within our marred vessels of clay.

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more [ after the flesh].

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

D____ wrote:

No surprise in my minister’s response to my departure letter. Here is part of what I wrote to him.

“As we have talked and you have known there is a growing difference between what the Lord has shown me to follow and what the church teaches.  Looking back I now see why I have been laid off for a short time. This is for me to spend time so I can clearly see what the cost will be.  I have attached a document that explains only a little bit of what I believe and why I am leaving.  You may or may not understand or agree with the scriptures that is written but that is ok.  I sincerely believe that God guides each of us to the see what He wants us to see at a given point in time.  Eventually everyone by God’s sovereign guidance will come to the same understanding of the truth but each in God’s own timing.  Our trials are customized for each one to eventually conform us into the image of his Son.  I know for certain that our paths will meet again.  But it is expedient that I go and obey what He has given me, for who can resist the will of God?

With love I love you all and you have a special place in my heart.  I have no negative feelings towards the church or any individuals for all things are according to His divine will and the memories will be cherished.  The Lord is sovereign and sometimes he tells his servants what he’s going to do ahead of time.  I knew this was coming years ago as the Lord has said to me worship leading will only be for a few short years.  I do ask for all to respect the path the Lord is leading me down and He is powerful enough to make any corrections in that course when He chooses.  Like wise I understand God’s sovereignty and what the church believes is what God wants it to believe at this time to serve His divine purpose.  For many try to covert others and they don’t realize that they are actually going against God’s plan for that person.”

Here is his response:

D____

“Hi D____,

First of all I’m not shocked at this letter and I mean just the part about you leaving. I am shocked with the attachment, and the doctrine you used to support your decision to leave. Many of the scripture you use contradict your own personality the love part of it. Would the love of Jesus write a letter to someone he has access to as much as you do? Would not the love of Jesus want that love to be displayed in the congregation, why are you withholding that love in you from us? If the world needs the love of Jesus, and you think we lack that and God revealed that to you why not show it among the people you claim to love?

I will share your decision with the leaders tonight in respect of them and love.

I would like to talk face to face with you about this instead of hiding behind an email, love, I’m confused.

You know where to find me, and how to get in touch with me. I have a lot to say to you but you remind me of old WCG “we know the truth and you don’t” Shock me I mean really shock me and man up on this.

L____”

Hi D____,

They really are going to miss you! Did they depend on you that much? This is nothing but sour grapes.

This man is part of Babylon and he is proud of it:

You know where to find me, and how to get in touch with me. I have a lot to say to you but you remind me of old WCG “we know the truth and you don’t” Shock me I mean really shock me and man up on this.

“I have a lot to say to you but you remind me of old WCG, we know the truth and you don’t.” is just another way of saying he cannot gainsay what you are saying. This is a confession that he does not know the Truth. It is also a slap in the face of the holy spirit which has this to say about that:

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

There that is a command of God. L____ dares to lecture you about love and he has no idea what love is:

1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

L____ doesn’t love God or he would do what he is told to do by God. He loves the praise of men, and he likes getting a regular pay check.

I hope I am not turning you off by pointing all of this out. I’m sure you love this man, and you probably have a certain amount of respect for him, but he cannot speak of ‘love’ and ignore God’s word without being called on that. The very definition of love is to “keep His commandments.” It is not defined as “Shock me, I mean really shock me and man up on this.” What utter hypocrisy!

Here is the mind of God which all of Babylon has abandoned by starting all the denominations we now see before us. Here is the mind of Christ which L____ and all the rest of the scribes of Babylon simply despise.

1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Sounds kind of like “we know the truth and you don’t”

You quoted that to L____, and he simply doesn’t like that scriptural, Biblical, Christ- like attitude. Here is how the scriptures describe L____:

Mat 7:28  And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29  For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

L____ is a scribe, and he is proud of it. He would never under any circumstance be guilty of  “speaking with authority” or ever say “We are of God: he that knows God hears us.” No, he cannot go there, and he will be judged out of his own mouth:

Luk 19:22  And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

“Thou wicked servant?” Isn’t that going a little overboard? All this man did was to hide his talent?

That is exactly how I used to think. It seemed that God came down kind of hard on a man who simply wasn’t as ambitious as his fellow investors. But what this man was saying was that God expects too much of us. And when ministers agree that no one can say…:

1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

… they, too are saying that God expects too much of us, He expects us to come out of Babylon and be separate from our brothers who claim the name of Christ. So when we are unwilling to come out of Babylon, we refuse to be separated from those who have the name of ‘the seed of Abraham’ but they are not willing to “do the works of Abraham.” Those are Christ’s words to those who believed on Him in His day and it is His word to those who believe on Him today:

Joh 8:31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue [ Greek – abide] in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

How can we “continue” or “abide in the doctrine of Christ” when we cannot even bring ourselves to confess to “know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error?”

But confessing to the truth of God’s Word makes us stand out from our Babylonian brothers, like Joseph stood out from His brothers, the seed of Abraham, who were not doing the works of Abraham. Continuing in Joh 8, speaking still to “those Jews which believed in Him,” Jesus had this to say:

Joh 8:37  I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and t he lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When we deny Christ’s words, we deny Christ. When we deny that we can “know the truth,” we deny Christ, who is “the Truth.”

Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Now let’s compare this to L____’s words to you: “You remind me of old WCG “we know the truth and you don’t”

At least the old WCG stood up for Christ’s words which taught us to love our enemies. It is so sad to see people like L____ taking off the coat of many colors and hanging it on the cross rather than to claim that their brothers are all wrong. It is that inability to “come out of her my people and be separate and be hated of all men,” which will cost us our inheritance which could be above our progenitors:

Gen 49:26  The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

“Separate from his brothers” is separate from those who “believe on Him… but do not the works of Abraham,” and “do not the things that I say.”

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Things like “try the spirits to see whether they are of God,” and things like “You shall know the Truth.”

D____, the scriptures tell us to admonish a heretic twice and then turn him over to Satan. If you have done this, then go no further. Twice is not twelve. On the other hand, if you have not done so, then “man up and shock L____.” Whatever you do, do it “with meekness and fear.”

L____, like all men, thinks love means getting along and being liked by all. Nothing is further from the Truth. Love actually means being hated of all men:

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

No one is more hated than those who realize that they have been given a coat of many colors, God’s Truth, which has been kept back from their own brothers who have never been given the knowledge that they are to rule over their brothers. Nothing brings on the hatred of your brothers faster than to be told that you have been given God’s Truth:

1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Please do not take this as a personal attack on L____. I love him even though I have never met him. I would love to “man up” to L____, but this is your battle, and God has not yet given L____ a disciple’s mind or a fear of His Word.

My prayers are with you, and God has promised to give you the words you need in the hour you need them.

Mar 13:11  But when they shall lead [ you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Your brother in Christ.
Mike