(Key verses: Gen 37:3-11)

Genesis is the book of beginnings or the book of generations, and here God established certain principles which are foundational in our spiritual growth. We know that the end of a thing is better than its beginning, but the beginning initiates the process (Ecc 7:8). Through the first man Adam, God focuses on the generations of certain individuals in this book – among these the names of Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob stand out before we come to the last section of Genesis. In this last section of Genesis, we meet one of Jacob’s sons, namely Joseph, and all this man had to endure to reach rulership. Genesis highlights the process in us of being brought from spiritual darkness to the marvelous light of Christ of which the first chapter gives us a general overview (Jer 18:4; Joh 1:1-5; Act 26:18; 1Co 15:22; Eph 1:17-23; Eph 5:8). Here are the first five verses of chapter 1 of Genesis which introduce this whole salvation process through Christ, the beginning and end of this process (Col 1:13-17; Joh 1:1-4; Rev 1:8; Rev 3:14):

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So with each of these main characters mentioned in Genesis, we see a part of our own spiritual development through the main themes connected to them. The life of Joseph connects with the theme of spiritual glorification, which is the ultimate purpose of God for all in Adam. This spiritual glorification is first reserved for God’s elect, and through Joseph we can see different aspects highlighted for our learning. The first aspect we dealt with in an earlier study was the fact that Joseph was not in accord with the evil slanders of his ten brothers, and he made that known to his father:

Gen 37:2 These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old, was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah, and with the sons of Zilpah, his father’s wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report.

These evil slanders of the brothers of Joseph point to all the false doctrines preached by our brethren in spiritual captivity in Babylon, which has a form of knowledge, but they instruct in foolishness to bring insult to the holy character of our heavenly Father:

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Jacob also loved Joseph more than his other children and gave him a special coat which relates to the glorious reward of the righteousness of God bestowed on His elect through the gift of the faith of Christ (Rom 1:17; Rom 3:22; Eph 2:8-10; Gal 2:16; Php 3:9):

Gen 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
Gen 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.

God’s Word is a parable to the natural mind, and the purpose of this parable, and all written in God’s Word, is to keep the multitude away from spiritual truths:

Mat 13:1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
Mat 13:2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
Mat 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables….

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

As with the cloud in the wilderness, all parables bring either light to the few elected ones or darkness to the multitudes, which are those with a fleshly or carnal understanding of things, typified by Egypt:

Exo 14:20 And it [the pillar of the cloud] came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

This brings us to another important aspect which is highlighted in Joseph’s life. God indeed speaks to people in general through many parables, and dreams are but one way of doing this as seen in the life of Joseph:

Gen 37:5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.

Dreams are used by God to either be an obstacle (an idol of the heart) to some, or a light on our path to spiritual glorification. Dreams are therefore a spiritual tool to bring separation in order for God to work with His elect to establish His kingdom in them first of all. The theme of dreams is therefore intimately connected with the theme of spiritual glorification as seen in six instances where dreams were important catalysts in the life of Joseph to bring him to rulership. This also helps us to see how God will establish His rulership through His elect on the earth and “bring into one the whole in the Christ”:

Eph 1:9 (YLT) having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,
Eph 1:10 (YLT) in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth–in him.

All dreams reveal spiritual symbols which should be interpreted according to other spiritual concepts in the scriptures alone. However, we all start off with understanding the spiritual principles and meanings from the things that are made in the physical creation:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

Through this knowledge we develop understanding of spiritual concepts, which is then used by the spirit of God to teach us how to compare and connect one spiritual thing with another spiritual aspect in Scripture to keep us safe from going beyond what is written, and prevent us from becoming entangled in carnal and temporal things (Pro 26:11; Luk 5:39; Gal 3:1-3; 2Pe 2:20-22):

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

This is also revealed in the progressive nature of the six dreams, and their interpretations in which Joseph was involved, as written down in scripture. This first dream we see in Joseph’s life is an announcement about his superior calling to his brothers. The purpose of this initial dream was therefore not only about his election above them, but also how this calling will bring about the necessary “ingredients” to fulfill his journey to the throne. One of these “ingredients” is the hatred which was caused in the darkened hearts of his brothers which will be used by God to bring Joseph to Egypt:

Gen 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field [Hebrew: “śâdeh” or “śâday” – country, field, ground, land, soil, the wild], and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.

This is a dream which God’s elect are given to see why we are given relationships on the earth first of all and why the elect of God are then taken up to be seated in heaven with Christ (Eph 2:6):

Rev 12:5 And she [the woman whose place God prepared in the wilderness] brought forth a man child, who was to rule [Greek: “poimainō” – tend to/shepherd] all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

It was actually Joseph’s brothers who were used to give the meaning or interpretation of these symbols in the dream of Joseph. Spiritual Babylon has limited insight in God’s words, and that is where we all start, although they have it all from the wrong perspective as if the elect are given to rule according to worldly models of rulership (Mat 20:25-28; 2Co 1:24; Rev 3:9):

Gen 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

Joseph’s second dream witnessed and confirmed his high calling:

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

With this second dream, a progression is also perceived from who interpreted these dreams. First, it was his brothers, and now Joseph’s father is involved in the interpretation:

Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

The rebuke of Jacob against Joseph’s dream places Jacob in this instance as an opposer or adversary to God’s purposes for Joseph. This antagonistic position of Jacob as Joseph’s father typifies the role of our first spiritual father when the truth is resisted:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Our spiritual dead mother is our first church experience in Babylon, in the synagogues of Satan, where God’s true elect in His spiritual Israel are rejected at this time, but they will bow to those elected by God one day (Gal 6:16):

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The symbol of stars connects spiritually to the offspring of this evil parenthood which is the role Joseph’s ten brothers fulfilled. While there is a second witness to Joseph’s rulership, and thereby a positive progression for Joseph, envy was now added to his brothers’ hatred toward him indicating a negative spiritual growth on their side:

Gen 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

While the new spirit man grows in us, the importance and relevance of the old man decreases all the time (Mat 10:38-39; Mar 10:29-30; Rom 12:1-2; Rev 11:15):

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Joseph’s glorification was not in the knowledge of these things alone, but more in the doing or application of these dreams and words (Mat 7:24-25). Even when these dreams of Joseph applied in his life, we again see that it was not fulfilled according to the false “free” will doctrine that is also part of spiritual Babylon’s slanders. The effecting of these dreams was all done according to God’s will Who directs all the steps of all creatures (Jer 10:23; Pro 20:24). Joseph’s dreams of rulership also required evil that was to be done toward him, and this evil was under God’s control from start to finish, as Joseph later also revealed to his brothers (Isa 5:20; Isa 45:7):

Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it [the evil] unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

God wanted Joseph on the throne in Egypt, and He gave Joseph the dreams to initiate that desire for rulership as God also will use Joseph’s wicked brothers to fulfill their part in that process:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Spiritual glorification will be established only through bitter trials and suffering which brings the context of spiritual maturity and rulership for God’s elect. This is also how Paul saw glorification in the elected church of God (Eph 1:17-18):

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure.

Joseph’s first two dreams of rulership caused him to be almost physically killed by his envious brothers, and through much tribulation he arrived in Egypt as a slave in the house of Potiphar, an officer of the Pharaoh (Gen 39:1-6). Through the false accusations by the wife of Potiphar, Joseph was then innocently held in prison (Gen 39:7-20). Here in prison we see how dreams reappear again in the life of Joseph. The third time in the scriptures dreams are mentioned in Joseph’s life was in connection with two other dreams which the butler and the baker of the Pharaoh had while they were also in the same ward in jail where Joseph was held. The theme of dreams in Joseph’s life has now progressed to helping others with their dreams:

Gen 40:5 And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison.

No one could interpret their dreams, but when they told these dreams to Joseph, he knew the meaning. First, there was the dream of the butler, and here again we learn so much of how God establishes these meanings and spiritual concepts written down in the book of Genesis:

Gen 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.
Gen 40:9 And the chief butler told his dream to Joseph, and said to him, In my dream, behold, a vine was before me;
Gen 40:10 And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes:
Gen 40:11 And Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh’s cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh’s hand.

Joseph gave the interpretation of this dream, which came true precisely as Joseph said:

Gen 40:12 And Joseph said unto him [the butler], This is the interpretation of it: The three branches are three days:
Gen 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh’s cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.

In this man’s dream we also see the process of the road to the throne for God’s elect, indicated by the number three. This also brings to mind how Jesus emptied Himself to come to this prison of flesh to die and to be raised to glory again (Isa 61:1; Joh 1:14):

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The elect are the true branches of the true Vine, Christ, and our heads will be lifted and filled with the mind of Christ to bring forth fruits of righteousness (Php 1:11). This is done through a crushing process for us as well (Gal 2:20; Php 1:29). Even as grapes are crushed to bring forth the wine, so we are crushed through the many trials for the furtherance of the gospel and to establish spiritual atonement and glorification (Lev 16:1-34; Mat 12:40; Joh 2:19; Joh 15:5-10; Joh 17:5; Php 1:12-15). This is where the second dream which Joseph heard in the prison, that of the baker, applies and how it connects with the dream of the butler:

Gen 40:16 When the chief baker saw that the interpretation was good, he said unto Joseph, I also was in my dream, and, behold, I had three white baskets on my head:
Gen 40:17 And in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bakemeats for Pharaoh; and the birds did eat them out of the basket upon my head.

Here is Joseph’s interpretation of this dream:

Gen 40:18 And Joseph answered and said, This is the interpretation thereof: The three baskets are three days:
Gen 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.

As the new man is lifted up to the throne, the old man decreased and is crushed (Joh 3:30). Because this baker of the Pharaoh was killed, this dream associates with death and the negative applications of all the symbols in his dream. This includes all in our old fleshly man in “the body of death” and his carnal mind (the white baskets filled with bakemeats) being progressively influenced by evil spirits represented by the birds or fowls of the air (Mat 13:4; Mat 13:19). Although the butler forgot his promise to Joseph to mention his name in front of Pharaoh for two years, his restoration was used as a precursor to what eventually would lead to Joseph’s rise to power (Gen 40:14; Gen 41:9-14). Through all these dreams God was progressively moving toward the ultimate rulership of Joseph, which again came through two dreams which the Pharaoh dreamed one night. This is the third grouping of the six dreams in Joseph’s life, written down in scripture, which also indicate the process involved in the spiritual glorification of the elect. The first dream was about cows (kine):

Gen 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.
Gen 41:2 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven kine, well-favored and fat-fleshed; and they fed in the reed-grass.
Gen 41:3 And, behold, seven other kine came up after them out of the river, ill-favored and lean-fleshed, and stood by the other kine upon the brink of the river.
Gen 41:4 And the ill-favored and lean-fleshed kine did eat up the seven well-favored and fat kine. So Pharaoh awoke.

Then the second dream of the Pharaoh:

Gen 41:5 And he slept and dreamed a second time: and, behold, seven ears of grain came up upon one stalk, rank and good.
Gen 41:6 And, behold, seven ears, thin and blasted with the east wind, sprung up after them.
Gen 41:7 And the thin ears swallowed up the seven rank and full ears. And Pharaoh awoke, and, behold, it was a dream.

These disturbing dreams were the tools God used to bring Joseph to the butler’s remembrance, as not one of the wisest men of Egypt could decipher the dreams. Through the butler, Joseph was called to the Pharaoh’s attention to give the right interpretation of these two dreams:

Gen 41:25 And Joseph said unto Pharaoh, The dream of Pharaoh is one: God hath shewed Pharaoh what he is about to do.

The second dream relates to the first dream, and here the spiritual connections of these symbols are also given by Joseph:

Gen 41:26 The seven good kine are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years: the dream is one.
Gen 41:27 And the seven thin and ill favoured kine that came up after them are seven years; and the seven empty ears blasted with the east wind shall be seven years of famine.

All the symbols in these two dreams of the Pharaoh were all connected and had one meaning concerning God’s Word and its complete judgment on all to bring spiritual nourishment through His elect. These last two dreams of the Pharaoh also bring the previous two groupings of two dreams to fulfillment. God also establishes the spiritual insight in His elect to see that He uses different symbols in scripture to say the same thing albeit from different perspectives and experiences. This spiritual principle also applies to so many aspects of the one truth that all things are from the one God, the Father, and He uses His Christ to bring this all back to Him eventually. All six dreams written in the scriptures as relating to Joseph’s life were about this one truth of the glorification in spirit:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Detailed studies and emails relating to these foundational themes in Scripture are available on the iswasandwillbe.com website, including these topics and links:

Numbers in Scripture
Rev 12:1-5
The Kingdoms of This World are Become The Kingdoms of Our Lord and of His Christ
The Biblical Overview of The Plan of God – Part 13
Awesome Hands – Part 30 In The Vines Were Three Branches
Awesome Hands – Part 31 Dreamer of Dreams
Colors – White – Part 1

Mike,
Please comment on these scriptures for me.

Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid [ his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues (G1100), and prophesied.
Act 10:45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46  For they heard them speak with tongues (G1100), and magnify God….
1Co 14:18  I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:39  Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues (G1100).

Guess I am still hung up on this “tongues” subject. It sounds to me like there was still a prayer language, not to be spoken in the church without an interpreter, etc. At Cornelius’s home, they possibly all spoke the same language. Would you straighten me out? Do you think Paul was saying that he spoke many more languages than the rest of them?

Thank you for your time, when you get it.
YSITC,
F____

Hi F____,

I understand this struggle because I have endured it myself. I hope this is of some help in your understanding of what happened on the day of Pentecost. What happened then was, according to Peter, the very same thing that happened at Cornelius’s house, and there is no reason to think that it was not the same in every instance.
As I point out in this e- mail, there simply is not one scripture as a Biblical basis for speaking in unknown tongues. The fact that Paul says “my understanding is unfruitful” and “in the spirit I speak mysteries” in no way proves that Paul or anyone with the gift of tongues had an ‘unknown angels tongue’. What it does prove is that the people who spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost did not understand the language they were speaking. But that does not make it any less a language. We are told that those speaking were speaking “in our own language”.

Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

As you can see in the verses you have sent me, the number for the word ‘tongues’ is G1100, and the word is glossa, and it means a language. You cannot interpret a nonexistent language. There is no need for a nonexistent language because there would be no way of “interpreting” that language. The tongues of scripture are intended to be “spoken clearly… for a sign to the unbelievers,” and then they were to be “interpreted” for the benefit of the believers also. We are even told that it is incumbent upon the person with the gift of tongues to seek out an interpreter before he speaks in that language as a sign to an unbeliever, and if there is no interpreter available, then the person with the gift is told not to speak in that language at all.

1Co 14:27  If any man speak in an [ unknown] tongue, [ let it be] by two, or at the most [ by] three, and [ that] by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28  But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

We are not told to speak first and then find out if there is an interpreter, instead we are told “If there be no interpreter let him keep silence” Do any of those who practice this doctrine follow these instructions?
Yes, the holy ghost did cause people to speak in other tongues, and I certainly would never “forbid anyone to speak in tongues”; known or unknown. But I always demonstrate with the scriptures, that there is no scriptural basis for speaking in something that is not a tongue, and is instead a counterfeit of what happened on the day of Pentecost in Act 2. Yes, the holy ghost was given after believing and being baptized in many instances, like at Samaria in Act 8 and Ephesus in Act 19. But that just demonstrates that newborn babes are still carnal. It does not demonstrate that anyone spoke in unintelligible syllables, and there is no reason to believe that the language of prayer is any different than the languages of Pentecost.
I hope this helps you to understand this subject. If not please let me know what is still unclear.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Posted March 11, 2004

Hi Mike!

Thanks for your response. I do want to discuss this, I just wanted to explain how I’ve believed this. I had a few thoughts, you mentioned that not everyone receives the gift of tongues.

Thanks, M____

Hi M____,

Yes, Paul makes it very clear that all who receive the Holy Ghost do not receive the gift of tongues when he lists all the gifts and offices and then poses seven questions. The obvious answer to every one of those seven questions is an emphatic, no! His point being that each member of the body has a different function. No one sincerely seeking to know the mind of God on this subject, can read the twelfth chapter of 1 Corinthians and conclude that everyone who has the Holy Ghost has to speak with tongues. Read that chapter. After each verse ask yourself, “Does this person have to speak with tongues to have the Holy Spirit?” The only verses where the answer is yes will be the verses which deal with the gift of tongues. Yet they all have the “selfsame Spirit.”

1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Tongues are mentioned only three times in the book of Acts:

1. When they were first given on the day of Pentecost in Act 2, as a sign to the Jews from all over the world, followed by Peter’s witness to all those Jews.
2. At Cornelius’ house, as a sign that the gospel was to go to the Gentiles, again followed by Peter’s witness to both the Gentiles present and to Peter and the Jews that were with him that the gospel had, indeed, been given to the Gentiles.
3. To the 12 men at Ephesus, again as a sign, to the very “Jews of Asia,” who were later to be so instrumental in attempting to stop Paul’s ministry. “Tongues are for a sign to unbelievers.” That is the only scriptural purpose given for this gift. Tongues, in scripture, are always real languages.

Let’s just let the scriptures speak for themselves. I will embolden a few words for emphasis:

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. [There; if you have Christ, you have the Spirit]
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [ we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The many members with many gifts and functions have only one “Holy Ghost”- verse 3. The “more excellent way” is the way of ‘agape,’ love, that seems to be totally ignored when seeking to know one’s spiritual condition. Speaking with ‘unknown tongues’ is by far a more reliable sign of how close one is to God in the mind of many than the “more excellent way” revealed in ‘the love chapter’ of 1 Corinthians 13.

These gifts here in 1 Corinthians 12 are listed in descending order of importance. Tongues are always last. Paul concludes with the admonition to “covet earnestly the best gifts.” Why then is it that the emphasis today is the exact opposite? Apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, gifts of healing, helps, governments are all around, but they can’t hold a candle to the popularity of ‘unknown tongues.’ Why is that? Could it be that a healing is a bit harder to perform? Well, in truth, that is certainly not the case for God, but that is the case for the Adversary. And yet it seems that the only gift being sought so diligently by most Christians is ‘unknown tongues.’

Again, the obvious answer to every question Paul poses is NO! Not every one who receives the Holy Ghost, talks with tongues, and NO one talks in ‘ unknown tongues’ because they are not even mentioned in scripture.

The “Holy Ghost,” is “Christ in you.” That is why He said, “The Father will take of mine and give to you.” That is why Christ said, “I will not leave you Comfortless. I will come to you.” [Be sure to read Is God A Trinity? on the web page.]

In Act 2, it says that they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues. Okay, here we have them all speaking in other tongues. There seems to be an indication that, when a person is filled, he begins to speak .

Of all the conversions mentioned in the book of Acts, from the 3000 on the day of Pentecost to the Ethiopian eunuch, to all the people Paul and Barnabas brought to Christ, to Paul and Silas’ jailer, etc., tongues are mentioned only three times. 1 Corinthians 12 explains why. Not every part of “the body,” needs the same gift. Besides that, the only tongues mentioned in Acts 2, or anywhere else in scripture, are real languages, spoken clearly by people who weren’t even able to interpret what they were saying. They were of no value to the person speaking, as far as being edified by what was coming out of their own mouth. However, those words were very edifying to “unbelievers.”

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem [unbelieving] Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

These as yet unbelieving Jews knew that these men were all uneducated “Galileans.”

Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The languages spoken by those given the gift of tongues are enumerated:

Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? [This was a “sign to unbelievers”]

I have never denied that on the day of Pentecost, that “they all spoke in other tongues [languages].” But this is a bonafide gift of God. This is the real thing. If the Spirit is moving in this way as is claimed, why have we not one modern case of such an event. Television news magazines have from time to time been forced to admit to a bonafide healing. Ppersonally, I have yet to see or hear of any such event as was witnessed by thousands on the day of Pentecost. I want to experience such a miracle, but I want it to be as real as it was that day when “speaking with tongues … profit [ed] you, …[by] speak[ing] to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine” (1Co 14:6). This is what happened with real languages on the day of Pentecost, and every time tongues are mentioned in scripture. Again, there is no mention in scripture of ‘unknown tongues.’

We know this is so because Paul goes on to tell us that the tongues he is discussing in 1 Corinthians 14 are so real he makes this statement:

1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds [Distinction means that it has significance to someone in the room], how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound [how in the world can anyone be certain about a language that is not mentioned in scripture and is understood by no one on earth?], who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood [does this sound like Paul is talking about ‘unknown,’ tongues], how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

That last verse is in contrast to: He that speaketh in an [foreign] tongue [when there is no one there who needs that particular tongue] edifieth himself [hey, look at me, I’ve got my gift]; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church (1Co 14:4). The “edifieth himself” of this verse is not talking about spiritual edification, because the man himself does not understand what he is saying in the language he is speaking. Nevertheless, it is a real language under discussion, as real as the languages on the day of Pentecost, or Paul would never have made the statements we have just quoted or the statement that follows that: “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying” (1Co 14:5).

An ‘unknown’ tongue would serve no purpose whatsoever. It is a false ‘sign’ because none can possibly know whether it was being properly interpreted, because it isn’t even a language. That is why Paul poses the question, “How shall it be known what is spoken?” (verse 9). Paul is not even talking about ‘unknown tongues.’ He asks that question in the context of having no one around who would be benefited by the real foreign language being spoken. ‘Unknown tongues’ as that phrase has come to be understood, are not even part of the discussion in 1 Corinthians 14, or anywhere else in scripture.

In Luke it says wait until you’re endued with power from on high. Do you believe that at salvation you receive the Holy Ghost as well?

The phrase “at salvation” is not in the scriptures. I am not intending to offend you, but the way you have framed this question, demonstrates that you are not aware that ‘salvation’ is a continual process. Of course you receive the Holy Ghost when you receive Christ. The Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit. Both English words ‘ghost’ and spirit’ are translated from the same single Greek word ‘pneuma‘. The Greek is Hagios Pneuma. The translators have done us a very great disservice by not giving this Greek phrase a consistent translation.

Getting back to the subject of ‘salvation,’ Paul says:

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How does “salvation nearer” square with the concept of “at salvation?” And again he says:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [Why not ‘Holy Ghost?’]

Then he also reveals this:

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

These verses reveal that ‘salvation’ is a continual “working out” process. We receive the ‘Holy Spirit [Ghost] of promise immediately “after ye believed.” Just because the twelve men at Ephesus had never even heard of the Holy Spirit does not mean that one must wait for a “separate work of the Spirit.”

‘Work, works, working or workings of the Spirit’ – none of these are scriptural phrases. Nevertheless, “there is one Spirit” is a scriptural phrase.

So, to answer your question as to what I believe, based on these and many other like scriptures, I do believe that you receive the Holy Spirit immediately upon conversion, but I do not believe that you are mature in the Spirit at the moment you become aware of your need for a Savior, and the fact that a Savior has been provided. Salvation is an ongoing process. Though you have been given God’s Spirit, right from the beginning, God’s Spirit does not yet have you complete right from the beginning. The steps involved in our maturing process are outlined for us in Israel’s experience and history. Paul tells us so in 1 Corinthians 10:11.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I am sending you another email on this subject of The Seven Steps To Salvation.

So there’s no need for what Paul did was to lay hands on believers that they’d be filled with the Holy Ghost?

Peter ‘laid hands’ on no one at Cornelius’ house. Yet they were given the Holy Ghost:

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

As Paul’s ministry matured, he was brought by God’s Spirit to see that many things he once did were simply no longer necessary for him

There was a time when Paul baptized. Later he tells us:

1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:

And then he tells us:

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.

It was to Paul that God first revealed that the ritual of circumcision was totally uneccessary. There was a period where anointed cloths were sent out from Paul’s presence for the healing of others. God honored these actions because they were done in faith, as they still are by some. But as Paul matured, he became aware that sometimes our faith is “tried.” Not all our prayers are answered, anointed cloths or not, hands laid on or not.

He tells Timothy, who apparently suffered digestive issues, to drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities (1Ti 5:23).

Again we are told:

2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Again Paul’s faith was tested:

Php 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
Php 2:26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
Php 2:27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Why didn’t Paul just send Timothy an anointed cloth or lay hands on him and pray for his healing? I feel sure that Paul had prayed fervently for Timothy’s “often infirmities.” Does anyone doubt that Paul prayed for either Trophimus or Epaphroditus? Of course Paul prayed for them all. Their healing was not in God’s will at that time, but Paul’s faith did not depend on outward signs. Likewise our Faith must be based on more than outward displays. If not, the fiery trial of our faith will shake anything that can be shaken.

To answer your question directly, circumcision, water baptism, foot washing, the Lord’s supper, anointed cloths and the laying on of hands, are all outward displays of one’s faith. They are not a sin any more than “another who is weak in the faith eats herbs.”

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

So it is with those who must have these displays of their faith. I believe in laying my hands on a person when I pray for them, but I do not for one minute believe that this ritual is a requirement for an answered prayer. You cannot do physical things to become spiritual.

Tongues are no exception to that truth. When we take the spiritual truth of the new covenant and turn them into physical requirements like water baptism and ‘unknown tongues’ we are not fooling God at all. He still will have our heart.

I have never heard of anyone without the baptism of the Spirit that has healed anyone, had a word of knowledge, prophecy, etc? Have you?

No, I haven’t. Christ healed the sick, had all knowledge and prophesied. Yet He never once spoke in an unknown tongue. The same is true of every one of the apostles. As a matter of fact they did all these things before they were even converted. Yes, they did!

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The 12 and the 70 performed miracles before they were even converted.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord,even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Years later, the night of His apprehension by the Jews, Christ tells Peter:

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Spiritual gifts are not a Biblical equivalent to the fruit of the Spirit. They are not even in the same league. I cannot over-emphasize this. Paul tells the Corinthian church:

1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Do you see that? The Corinthians “came behind in NO GIFT. Yet in the next breath Paul tells them:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So do not measure a man by the gifts he possesses. Measure him only by the fruit he produces. How does he react to being mistreated? Is he even capable of “loving his enemies?” That is a far better measure of a man’s spiritual condition then whether he can pray for the sick and experience healings. It is far superior to ‘unknown tongues’.

And so when beleivers sincerely ask to receive the Holy Ghost and begin to speak in tongues, God is giving them a counterfeit gift? Is that what you’re telling me? I’m curious, I thought Jesus said if you ask your father for a fish will he give you a stone?

If you insist on equating ‘unknown tongues’ with the Holy Spirit, with no other reason than the fact that on three occasions in the book of Acts (Pentecost, Cornelius’ house, and the Ephesian converts) people spoke in a new language, then you alone must decide, “Am I asking sincerely, wanting only to know the truth of the word of God on this subject, or am I attached to a personal ‘idol of the heart?'” I cannot answer that question for you. I can tell you that ‘unknown’ tongues have no basis in the scriptures. Known languages? Sure! However, the word ‘unknown’ is not in the Bible regarding tongues. God will not give you a stone for asking for a fish, but if you come to His word with your mind already made up, and then try to make His word fit into your heart’s idol, then yes, God will answer you according to the multitude of your idols of your heart.

Again I’m not trying to argue with you, just want to understand what God’s word teaches us in this regard.

Keep this attitude. Ask God not to deceive you but to give you a love of the Truth.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Maybe you already have read Strong Delusion. If not, please be sure to do so.

Posted March 11, 2004

Hi Mike!

I was reading some of your comments in “You asked” regarding the function of the spiritual gifts and specifically on speaking in tongues.

Although, I can see your point that prophecy is preferred to tongues, I believe that you are missing it that we should not be speaking in tongues.

I have never said ‘we should not be speaking in tongues.’ Here is what I did say:

There! That is my commentary on the tongues part of 1 Corinthians 14 – ‘The Tongues Chapter.’ I believe it is true to the scriptures. I simply cannot vouch for something God has given me no experience in. When I witness a true Acts 2 tongues experience, I will immediately share it with my reading audience. Just because I have never experienced something does not mean that others haven’t.

You cannot show me where I have ever said that the gift of tongues has passed from the scene. It is true that I believe that as one matures gifts become less and less of a factor in one’s faith. I have gone on the record as saying that any gifts we possess should rest upon our faith and not vice versa. In other words, our faith should not depend upon the number of gifts we possess and the number of prayers we have answered. This would lead to nothing less than immaturity and a whole church full of spoiled rotten spiritual “babes in Christ.” I welcome anyone, who has never spoken in French, being able to communicate the gospel to someone who does not know English but only French. That is the true Acts 2 experience. Anything less is a sign to no one and is without scriptural basis.

What is your understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Do you believe in this second experience which parallels the feast of pentecost?

There were no ‘unknown,’ tongues on Pentecost, at the home of Cornelius, or at any of the cities where Paul met believers who had been ‘baptized into John’s baptism.’ The word ‘unknown’ is never used in conjunction with tongues. All the tongues spoken at Pentecost are enumerated in Acts two:

Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Crees and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Incoherent ‘unknown tongues’ would never have produced such questions and such astonishment. Rather they would have produced just what Paul tells us they produce when virtually no one can understand what is being said:

1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

If this is true of a real tongue, how much truer is it of a non-existent, ‘unknown’ tongue? My personal ‘experience’ has demonstrated the truth of that statement on several occasions when I was a believer in ‘unknown tongues.’ I do not despise what I once was. I thank God for that experience. If I had not been there, I would not be able to write this email with any sense of conviction. However, I have asked God to help me to rid myself of any ‘idol of the heart.’ This ‘I-have-the-baptism-of-the-Holy-Ghost-and-you-don’t’ doctrine was one of the first ‘idols of the heart’ I had to give up. It was no easier for me than it will be for you. As long as you come to the word of God with your “experience” ahead of scripture, you are exactly where Ezekiel says the elders of Israel were when they came to “enquire of the Lord:”

Eze 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Eze 14:2 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?

Their ‘experience’ had led them to preconceived conclusions, and they wanted God to now put His stamp of approval upon their ways.

Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
Eze 14:5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
Eze 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet [comes to God’s Word and adds ‘unknown’ where the Lord simply said ‘tongue’ or language] to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

God answers us according to the multitude of [our] idols;

Eze 14:10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

“I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols,” means that if you have your mind made up about this, or any subject, before you go to the scriptures, if you are not sincere in seeking only the mind of God, then God will use your own deception to deceive you. For example:

Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, [This is a false doctrine] reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

The Lord did not even bother to show this man how wrong he was. He answered him “according to the idol of his heart.”

Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

David puts it this way:

Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

Now, with these stern warnings against allowing anything other than the word and mind of God to be our guide, let’s go two chapters earlier, to where Paul poses this question:

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

These gifts are all listed in order of importance, ‘First … secondarily … thirdly…’ etc. The answer to every question asked here is emphatically, No! Yet according to what I understand you to be saying, your answer to this question would be, “No, except for the gift of unknown tongues, because if you don’t have that gift then you cannot be ‘built up in your faith’ to be a prophet, teacher or a worker of miracles, etc. Without the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which equates to speaking in unknown tongues, you cannot build up your faith.”

Am I wrong about what you are saying? I know that is exactly what I used to think in my puffed up immature spirit. The Truth revealed in these questions, however, is that God does not give any one of these gifts to everyone. Neither does He give all of these gifts to any one person.

The “fruit of the Spirit,” is not ‘unknown tongues.’

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Verse 26 is speaking directly to those who believe that their physical “experience,” has somehow given them a spiritual edge over those who merely bear the “fruit of the Spirit.”

I have had acquaintances of mine who have discussed my page and my teachings with their Charismatic friends. Inevitably the first question out of the mouth of the charismatic is not, “Does Mike Vinson have love, joy, peace, etc.? Has he crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts?” No, the first question from charismatics is invariably, “Does he speak in tongues?” The word ‘unknown’ is understood. It is strange to me that with all the tongues all around that the only ones spoken on the day of Pentecost (I mean known languages that serve as a useful ‘sign to unbelievers’) are not to be found anywhere here in Georgia. I have heard a lot of ‘tongues’ spoken here in Georgia.

First of all, I agree that prophecy is better IN the church. If you read 1Co 14:5, you’ll see that Paul refers to tongues that are interpreted EQUALLING prophecy, thereby the church is edified.

Certainly, a true Pentecostal experience would be very edifying. A language is being spoken by a person with no training in that language, and it is being understood by people who know that the person speaking that language doesn’t have training in the language he is speaking. This is a miracle. Faking this experience and telling your followers that this is just as good as what happened at Pentecost, edifies no one but the person who falls prey to this doctrine. He can now feel spiritually superior to his fellow Christians who haven’t yet been able to have this “experience.” Why would God speak to anyone in a language that exists nowhere on earth and then “interpret” it? The word “interpret” means that it is a known language, and yes, when a person speaks fluently in a known language in which he has no formal training, this is the exact same thing as prophesying. Furthermore it becomes, under those true Pentecostal conditions, a powerful “sign, not to them that believe but unto them which believe not.” None of this is true for what is passed off as a language spoken nowhere on earth.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Yes, there is, and that ‘tongue that no man understands howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries’ is an earthly language that is uninterpreted. It clearly tells us that it is “speaking mysteries” – not speaking incoherently.

You didn’t really comment on this verse in your responses. There is a tongue that by a believer is speaking to God, and speaking mysteries! In verse 4 it says he is edified, or built up. Your comment was this was not a compliment from Paul.

The ‘no man understandeth him’ is merely a statement of fact when you have someone speaking French when there is no one around who understands French. Paul is having to tell these overzealous and immature Corinthian ‘carnal… babes in Christ’ that they ought not be abusing their gifts to simply show off or “edify himself.”

I am going to cut and paste my comment to this verse:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown – this mistaken insertion is quoted as if it were scripture] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Since “no man understands him,” Paul says, “He edifies himself.” This is not a compliment, nor is it advice. It is a reprimand, and is contrasted with “edifying the church” (vs 4).

1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [This is the preferred gift of this chapter.]
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown – leave this word out. It was not in the original texts.] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Here is one of the least quoted verses of this chapter, and it is the heart of this chapter.

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues [I wish all my children could receive the gift of languages, not mumblings], but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

This is the required product of both prophesying and tongues. I, too, would rather that my children prophesy than speak in languages.

1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Paul is telling us, with this verse that the gift of languages should be used for the purpose of edifying the church, not to demonstrate for the whole congregation that this brother has ‘received his gift.’

I don’t believe tongues are just for a sign, but they are to build up believers. See Jude 20, we’re exhorted to build ourselves up PRAYING in the holy ghost.

What you are saying to me, and to all those without what you consider to be ‘the baptism of the Holy Ghost’ is that we cannot be ‘built up’ without speaking in an unknown tongue because we don’t know what we should ask for, and therefore if the Holy Ghost does not ask for the things we need in a language that cannot be understood then we (those of us without this gift) are at a disadvantage, and will never have the things we need presented to the Father because we don’t have the gift of unknown tongues.

So I believe that you speak in tongues unto God mysteries and then pray to interpret which in turn edifies the body with a revelation, etc.

If I take your statement: “a man with a theory is at the mercy of a man with an experience” and live by it, then I must confess that my “experience” has been that God did not begin to open my eyes to all the truths of His Word, for which you have expressed your gratitude, until I matured to the point that I did not consider my ‘gift of tongues’ and my ‘gift of interpretation of tongues’ to make me any closer to God than those without such gifts. Eventually I was brought, through the scriptures, to see the truth about ‘unknown tongues.’ At that point I saw that I had to choose between a doctrine that I had stood up for for all my life, and the truth about that doctrine which I was beginning to see in the scriptures. Any revelation I have received has come to me since I have seen through the false doctrine of ‘unknown,’ (a word not found in the original in 1 Corinthians 14) tongues. The only thing better than having an experience is seeing through an experience. If King Saul could have seen through his experience at Endor, he would never have fallen in battle. God had told Adam that he would return to the dust. The serpent had told Adam that he would not surely die. Saul’s “experience” lined up with the serpent’s lie, and Saul went with his ‘experience’ and against the scripture. So in the final analysis a man with an experience had better be at the mercy of the scriptures, because the scriptures are dictated to by neither ‘experience’ nor ‘theory.’

Verse 17-19 Paul says speaking in tongues gives thanks WELL [in the spirit] but then you must then speak in english so others are edified.

That is not what Paul says at all. Here is what he does say:

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

I left ‘unknown’ out, because it was added to the Word of God.

1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?[Does that sound like Paul was speaking of a secret prayer language?]
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Read and reread that last verse. Don’t overlook the whole point of this chapter. Paul favors and encourages “understanding.” Yes, he does say not to forbid to speak with other languages, with the understanding that you seek out an interpreter first and do it for a sign to unbelievers and do it in order and not all at one time. ‘Unknown tongues’ is an unscriptural phrase found nowhere in this or any other chapter in scripture.

You apparently want me to believe that if I pray with the understanding that I am not ‘praying in the Spirit.’ I don’t think you realize what you are implying. You are saying that if Paul (or I) were to pray with the understanding, then we would not be praying in the Spirit. You go as far as to quote Jdg 20 as proof that we are to pray in unknown tongues. Here is Jude 20:

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Do you see now how you are equating ‘unknown tongues’ to the words ‘Holy Ghost’ here in Jude 1:20. You point to that scripture and ask me if I can’t see that we are to pray in unknown tongues. The plain scriptural answer is I do not see the words ‘unknown tongues’ anywhere in the book of Jude or anywhere else in scripture. The kind of tongues being spoken of here are revealed in verse 21. We need not speculate:

1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

There it is. Paul makes it clear that what he is talking about throughout this chapter are the “tongues… and … lips [of] other… men.” This is a reference to Isaiah 28:11-12, where Isaiah is prophesying the impending fall of the northern kingdom of Israel at the hands of the Assyrians. The ‘men of other tongues’ referred to there are men of the Assyrian tongue.

Paul says he speaks in tongues more then them ALL [Greek: all of them put together]. Should we not see that Paul himself who said to imitate him, encourages us to speak in tongues??

We know from the book of Acts that Paul was at least bi-lingual. Nowhere are we told that Paul had the gift of tongues. Paul is not making that claim here. You have to read that into the text.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Does that sound like Paul is encouraging the Corinthians to speak in ‘unknown tongues?’

1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Does one single verse of this section of this chapter sound like Paul is encouraging you to pray in an unknown tongue? I appreciate your zeal. It seems that many people who come to my site are charismatics who are serious and zealous to serve God. I repeat Paul’s advice:

1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

That is what Paul is encouraging these zealous but “childish” (Chapter 13), and “carnal” (chapter 3), Corinthians to do in this chapter. There is not one word about praying in an ‘unknown tongue here or anywhere else in the Bible.

Also, notice vs 19: yet IN the church [inferring that he speaks in tongues not JUST in church] but when he comes to church is to edify and teach others.

That is the exact opposite of what Paul is saying. Here is the proof:

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my [clearly understood English] voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [foreign] tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Every time you see that word ‘understanding’ Paul is contrasting it with the much abused gift of languages that these zealous but mislead and ‘carnal’ ‘babes in Christ’ wished to posess. Paul is right up front with these people. He first tells them:

1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Then only two verses later he tells them:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Then in the next breath he is telling us this of this congregation:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

But they “came behind in no gift,” and they were especially proud of their gift of languages.

We use tongues to speak to God mysteries from our spirit to His. We prophecy to edify the body of Christ.

I know, I did, too.

Let me close with vs 39: Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophecy, and FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES.

I welcome a true Pentecostal experience with the true gift of true “men of other tongues and of other lips.” I see through the zeal that has led me and millions of other sincere ‘babes in Christ’ to fall for a very poor counterfeit of what actually happened on the day of Pentecost.

I’ve had this experience and recieved ‘tongues’ not by making something up but by the Sprit. I believe the saying that a man with a theory is at the mercy of a man with an experience. I cannot deny this baptism in the Spirit.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Again, I have been encouraged and blessed by your writings; it’s just on this point that I felt I needed to share this with you.

I appreciate you sharing this with me. I hope that “a man with a theory is at the mercy of a man with an experience. I cannot deny this baptism in the Spirit” does not mean that you and I can no longer discuss this subject. I believe that a man with an experience should “try the spirits” just as diligently as a man with a theory. The Truth of the scripture is determined by neither ‘experience’ nor ‘theory.’

I have the same concern for you and for your spiritual welfare. Let’s both pray that God will remove any idol of our heart and reveal His Truth to us. That is truly and honestly all I want.

God bless!

God bless you as you seek to know the mind of Christ.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Mike

December 27, 2003

Part 1

C____ wrote:

Dear Brother Mike,

I just read a good bit of your discourses on your site. I must say that I am very grateful to the Holy Spirit for the insight you have. What I have read thus far, I believe to be the truth. I too, have come out of a Pentecostal Church. I have also seen the things that I believe you refer to as counterfeit “tongues.” I have also seen someone filled with the Spirit and praising God in perfect English and later when I went to speak to them they could not speak but a few words and needed an interpreter to speak to me.

I know “tongues” are real in that case just as you yourself probably have seen that also. My question however, comes from the point that you believe that tongues are no more when we become mature. I agree in spirit with what you say, because I also do not speak in tongues often. But sometimes, in my Secret Place, I do. Paul later ended his teaching with I speak in tongues more than you all. He then said I will pray with the understanding and I will pray in the spirit. Of which I am sure he meant “without understanding,” meaning he spoke in a language that he did not understand, but it did “edify” or build up his faith. As the word itself states.

Where is the scripture for this belief? Paul asks ‘Do all speak with tongues?’ This teaching would have you believe that if you don’t, then you cannot ‘build up your faith.’ That is simply not so. God never intended to give anyone all the gifts, and He certainly never intended to give everyone the least important of the gifts, that is the gift of tongues.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, [and eighth and last] diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: [‘rather that ye may prophesy’] and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I know and am assured that much of which is passed off as tongues is indeed not the “spirit.” I do know that we have the Spirit and can speak to God in it and it is at times not just a language but also groaning and moaning that can not be uttered. So I guess my question is this, do you believe that all tongues have ceased. And if so, why not prophecy and the other gifts of the Spirit. Which we know if one has passed then prophecy is also passed because Paul stated this also would go away. And if it has gone away, then why has the church not been “perfected” yet as Paul said it would be when all these things ceased!

I do not believe that any of the gifts are ‘passed’ any more than I believe that the law is ‘passed’ or ‘done away’ for those still coming to Christ. The law is necessary to bring us to Christ, but after that faith is come we are no longer under the schoolmaster (Gal 3:19-23). So it is with gifts. They are necessary to lead us to Christ, but eventually (1Co 3:13) every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. Every man’s work will be tried by fire. Our prayers will not always be answered, and our gifts will sometimes force us to “leave Trophimus sick at Miletum” (2Ti 4:20). This is in spite of promises like: (Jas 5:15) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. All this simply because our Creator has decided that we should count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing [this], that the trying of your faith worketh patience (Jas 1:2-3).

I know that I have written a long letter, but I have come out of “darkness” and cannot just take anyone’s opinion on the matter; it has to be established by the word of God without any contradictions for me to believe.

I could not agree more. I only hope that you realize that I am in that same boat.

Not that I am saying that you have contradicted yourself, but maybe just did not explain it as well as I needed. Thanks, Brother. C____

Thanks for reading my discourses and thank you for your kind words about our ‘insight.

As I said, I was reared a Pentecostal, and I have heard thousands speak in ‘unknown’ tongues over the years.

You say:

I have also seen someone filled with the Spirit and praising God in perfect English and later when I went to speak to them they could not speak but a few word and needed an interpreter to speak to me. I know “tongues” are real in that case just as you yourself probably have seen that also.

No, I have never had such an experience. I have never witnessed anything resembling an Acts 2 experience. Please don’t take that fact to mean that I do not believe that God cannot give someone today the ability to speak in a language (‘tongue’) that they have never spoken in before. I know good and well that God can do that, but I have never witnessed it. All I have ever seen were unscriptural ‘unknown tongues.’

Why do I call them unscriptural? Simply because there is not one time in the scriptures where anyone is ever said to have spoken in an ‘unknown’ tongue. As I am sure you are aware, every time you see the word ‘unknown’ in the KJV, it is in italics. The italics were used by the translators to let us know which words they added to the text to ‘help make the meaning clearer.’ Since Anglicans (King James was an Anglican) are not generally tongues speakers, I seriously doubt that they meant ‘unknown’ in the sense that today’s Pentecostals mean it. It is undeniable that the person speaking ‘in tongues’ on the day of Pentecost did not understand what they were saying as they spoke was heard “every man in his own language” (Act 2:6). Nevertheless, what they were speaking was not a non-existent tongue but “every man in his own language.” It was the same at Cornelius’ house, because Peter said it was:

Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

All languages mentioned in scripture are known languages. They are not the incoherent syllables run together and passed off as the experience of Pentecost. This is obvious delusion. Here is what Paul had to say about the tongues he was discussing: I have adopted this as my own understanding of this particular gift:

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. [Through out this chapter Paul contrasts the gift of ‘prophecy,’ (he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort vs 3) with the gift of tongues.]
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown – this mistaken insertion is quoted as if it were scripture] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [ him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [Since “no man understands him,” Paul says “he edifies himself.” This is not a compliment, nor is it advice. It is a reprimand, and is contrasted with “edifying the church” (vs 4).]
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [This is the preferred gift of this chapter]
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown – leave this word out] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. [Here is one of the least quoted verses of this chapter, and it is the heart of this chapter.]
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues [I wish all my children could receive the gift of languages, not mumblings], but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. [This is the required product of both prophesying and tongues. I, too, would rather that my children prophesy than speak in languages]
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? [Paul is telling us, with this verse that the gift of languages should be used for the purpose of edifying the church, not to demonstrate for the whole congregation that this brother has ‘received his gift.’]
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? [If this verse is not the death knell of the doctrine of ‘unknown tongues,’ then I do not know what Paul’s point is. Please enlighten me.]
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain [‘unknown’] sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. [Paul is talking about real languages!]
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices [actual languages] in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice [this real language], I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. [This is Paul’s assessment of a language that no one understands]
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. [I really admire the zeal of unknown tongues talking Pentecostals. But just as Paul (who was not even dealing with counterfeit tongues, but with abuse of a real gift), I, too, would rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues…]
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown – foreign] tongue pray that he may interpret. [What profit are ‘unknown tongues?’ They are ‘a sign’ to no one. There is nothing to ‘interpret.’]
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown – foreign] tongue [when there is no one there who would understand that tongue and therefore no one for whom this tongue would ‘be a sign’], my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. [Again, this is an admonition not to abuse God’s gifts just to draw attention to one’s self.]
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit [only if it is “a sign to unbelievers,” and therefore “edifies the church”], and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit [only if it is a “sign” and “edifies”], and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks [in a real language] well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: [We have no record of Paul ever having a Pentecostal experience and speaking in a language he did not understand. “Praying in the spirit” is not synonymous with, nor exclusive to, praying in a foreign language. “Praying with the spirit” is not to be understood as something we should desire to do without understanding what we are saying. That is the exact opposite of the tenor of this whole chapter. It is certainly not to be understood as “the spirit praying for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.” If it were to be taken that way, then those who did not have this least desirable gift, would not have such a mediator. What Paul is saying is “I will [always] pray with the understanding also.” Paul considered himself to be just as unedified by speaking in a language he didn’t understand as the church would be unedified if it could not understand what was being said. This chapter is an admonition against abusing a real gift with a real purpose to it. That purpose was most certainly not to edify the one with the gift. Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. They, therefore, are certainly not “the initial evidence of the gift of the Holy Spirit.”]
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue. [Some day God will open the eyes of Oral Roberts, Gloria and Kenneth Copeland, Billie Byrne and all others who have this false doctrine of ‘unknown tongues,’ to see the truth of this verse. Mind you, Paul is speaking of a real language, not a counterfeit, when he makes this statement.]
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: [Don’t abuse this real gift, just to draw attention to yourself.] howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding [this word is the theme of this chapter] be men.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [This verse is quoted from Isaiah 28 and is a prophecy of the invading Assyrian armies.]

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [This verse alone should give the lie to the false doctrine of ‘unknown tongues.’ The Assyrian ‘tongue’ may not have been understood by Israel, but it was certainly a real language.]

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. [This is THE purpose for tongues! The exact opposite of the doctrine that tongues are ‘proof of the initial evidence of the gift of the Holy Ghost’.]
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? [As well they should, even if the languages are real, much less when people by the hundreds of thousands are falling for a very poor counterfeit.]
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, [speak clearly in plain English which he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort] and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. [Because he could understand what was being said.]
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue [to be used as a sign to an unbeliever and to edify the church, not for self edification], hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown – foreign] tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. [This verse proves that it is incumbent upon the person with the gift of languages to seek out an interpreter prior to the service, before he begins to speak in a language that most of the audience may not understand. If there is not an interpreter, “let him hold his peace.” It does not say. ‘Let him speak first and hope that there is someone there who can fake an interpretation of a non- existent language’]
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If [anything] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. [This verse was flagrantly violated by Gloria Copeland and her friend Billie Byrne, on TBN just last night, as they demonstrated how we were to “pray together in unknown tongues.” “Not doing this is what is holding the church back from maturing and becoming a more effective witness for Christ,” they falsely affirmed. This is pathetic, unscriptural nonsense!]
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. [What group of ‘unknown tongues’ talkers practices this verse.]
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [They teach just the opposite; ‘You can’t control the Spirit.’]
1Co 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. [This verse amounts to nothing less than ‘Quenching the Spirit,’ to some ‘unknown tongues’ practitioners.]

There! That is my commentary on the tongues part of 1 Corinthians 14, ‘The Tongues Chapter.’ I believe it is true to the scriptures. I simply cannot vouch for something God has given me no experience in. When I witness a true Act 2 tongues experience, I will immediately share it with my reading audience. Just because I have never experienced something does not mean that others haven’t.

You cannot show me where I have ever said that the gift of tongues has passed from the scene. It is true that I believe that as one matures that gifts become less and less of a factor in his faith. I have gone on the record as saying that any gifts that we possess should rest upon our faith and not vice versa. In other words our faith should not depend upon the number of gifts we possess and the number of prayers we have answered. This would lead to nothing less than immaturity and a whole church full of spoiled rotten spiritual “babes in Christ.”

Christ told doubting Thomas: Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen [ gifts displayed and prayers always answered], and yet have believed (Joh 20:29).

James tells us:

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

For some reason, our Creator places great stress upon this thing called ‘patience.’ So much so that He says: In your patience possess ye your souls (Luk 21:19). Babes in Christ, constantly caught up in demonstrations of the gifts they possess and believing that they can “concerning the works of my hands command you me” (Isa 45:11), cannot even discern an admonition from advice or a compliment.

It is “strong meat” to be told that God intends to try the faith of every son He receives. Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is (1Co 3:13). My prayer is simply, ‘give me the strength to endure to the end.’

Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Part 2

Dear Brother Mike,

I am sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to make it sound like I was stating that you taught that tongues had ceased. That was not my intention. That is however what I thought you were saying. I see now that it is not. As far as the movie star preachers are concerned, I don’t much watch them because I get physically ill to my stomach. Really, I’m not joking. I did appreciate your comments on the gifts and it helped me out.

I also do not believe that the gift of tongues is the evidence of the Holy Ghost, which, like I made a mistake, I think you assumed that I did. I am also still learning, just as you are. I think that you, as well as I, are doing just fine without some of the things we were taught. I was in the UPC organization for about 17 years. All the while, God was beating me out of it. You know how it is when you are taught one thing and you find out it is another way. It is a hard road to travel because you seem to be on it alone, although we know that we are not! I have enjoyed your teaching, although I can’t say that I am in total agreement on everything. I am, as I said before, still studying and learning.

May the Lord continue to bless you in knowledge of him. By the way, the scripture you quoted in Isaiah about the stammering lips: I had the Lord quote that to me one night in prayer because I felt so foolish in all the things I have been doing and teaching people about trying to warn them of things to come. He told me it meant by the mouth of the foolish and the tongues of the foreign I will speak to this people. I looked up the word stammering and it means buffoon or foolish. I think it goes along with the scriptures because I have been warning people of us being chastised by foreigners. I hope that you are not put off by me, but that is what I have been teaching. Well, God bless. C____.

Hi C____,

You did not at all offend me. I, too, am at a disadvantage, when communicating by email. It is hard to determine one’s ‘tone of voice’ in an email.

When I ask a direct question, please don’t take it as anything but that. I am just trying to learn what you are thinking and why you believe as you do. I have learned a lot from those who are willing to take the time to tell me why they see the scriptures as they do.

As a matter of fact, I was ‘edified’ by what you had to say about Isaiah 28. All those who are still controlled by ‘the first Adam’ and are opposed to ‘Christ in you’ are indeed ‘foolish buffoons.’

Whether immature Christian, Islamic or total heathen, they are all acting as “evil men.” This is exactly what God uses to punish His own rebellious children.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

These verses tell me that God always has and always will use the heathen to punish His own hypocritical people.

Here it is again from David’s perspective:

Psa 17:13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
Psa 17:14 From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world…

It seems to me that ” the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land” (Isa 10:23).

Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

I believe that these 21st century ‘Crusades’ that we have embarked upon are only “the beginnings of sorrows.”

Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

While these scriptures seem clear to me, I believe that the weight of the scriptures are directed toward ‘the beast within,’ not some man in a temple made with stones.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

This is just some ‘food for thought.’

I appreciate your fellowship.

Mike

November 24, 2003

Dear Mike,

I have been reading from your web site and see that you welcome questions and comments. I have a question regarding spiritual gifts, especially tongues.

1Co 12:1-11 “And concerning the spiritual things, brethren, I do not wish you to be ignorant; ye have known that ye were nations, unto the dumb idols– as ye were led– being carried away; wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit. And there are diversities of gifts, and the same Spirit; and there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord; and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God – who is working the all in all. And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit; for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; and to another faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healings in the same Spirit; and to another in- workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues: and all these doth work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intendeth” (YLT).

So it is clear that spiritual gifts are real and serve a purpose. Gifts are dispersed as the Spirit intends.

1Co 12:28-31 “And some, indeed, did God set in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, afterwards powers, afterwards gifts of healings, helpings, governings, divers kinds of tongues; are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all powers? have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? and desire earnestly the better gifts;…” (YLT)

This again suggests gifts are dispersed among the body. Some teach that there are two types of tongues; a quiet, personal prayer language and another to edify the church aloud. Are you aware of this distinction in Scripture?

Also, usage of gifts in this age will clearly end. My question is: does the “perfect” below refer to Jesus’ return (end of this age) or my own maturity – “teleios” – completeness: of full age, man, perfect (maturity of character, etc.)?

1Co 13:8-10 “The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless; for in part we know, and in part we prophecy; and when that which is perfect may come, then that which is in part shall become useless.” (YLT)

Thanks for receiving my questions and I look forward to reading your response(s).

God bless you,
P__

Hi P__,

Thanks for reading the web page. Thanks especially for your question. You ask:

Some teach that there are two types of tongues; a quiet, personal prayer language and another to edify the church aloud. Are you aware of this distinction in Scripture?

No, there is no such distinction ‘in scripture.’

Yes, I am aware of this distinction in the minds of those who believe in ‘unknown tongues.’ I notice that you have not used the phrase,’unknown tongues,’ and I don’t know how you personally feel about this subject. If we are interested in The Truth, then our ‘feelings’ become secondary and irrelevant. I am going to approach this question as I do every question I receive and answer with only one criteria; what saith the scripture?

“Some teach that there are two types of tongues; a quiet, personal prayer language and another to edify the church aloud.” I ask simply, where is the scripture for this teaching? I know very well how it is deduced, because I was raised an interdenominational Pentecostal. I spoke in ‘unknown’ tongues with the others in my church. Our ‘tongues’ were as good as anyone’s. I was as sincere at that time as I am presently in my desire to know the mind of God and to let Christ live His life in me. I love those who believe in ‘unknown tongues’ and appreciate the sincere desire to please God that many of these brothers have. Having said that, I am compelled to add that I was not, however, as informed of The Truth at that time as I am 40 years later. At that time I also believed in ‘free moral agency’ and another Satanic doctrine, the doctrine of an eternal burning hell for immortal souls.

Simply by the grace of God I have been shown in the scriptures that Adam, as he came from the hand of the Creator, was totally unfit for eternal life in the kingdom of God and had not yet ‘put on immortality.’

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Eze 18:4… the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

I now reject the teaching of an immortal flesh and blood Adam, or an inherent immortal soul. They are “Idols of the heart” (Eze 14:9).

I have been shown that instead of ‘free will’ the scriptures teach, (Rom 9:16) … it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Eph 1:11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I now reject the teachings of free will and of free moral agency. It is an “Idol of the heart.”

Instead of eternal burning hell, I have been shown that God (1Ti 2:4) … will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1Ti 4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [not exclusively] of those that believe. (2Pe 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (1Jn 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours [believers] only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I now reject the teaching of eternal hell fire or eternal death. They are both “idols of the heart.”

Likewise when I saw that…

1Co 14:2… he that speaketh in a tongue [a foreign language, when there is no one there to interpret] speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth [speaks in ‘plain English’] speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an [foreign] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church [and what is the point of this statement?].
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with [foreign] tongues, but rather that ye prophesied[ speak in a language everyone understands]: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you [anyone who speaks in ‘unknown tongues’ care to answer this question of Paul’s], except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?1Co14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? [Does this sound as if Paul is talking about ‘unknown tongues’ understood as unknown to any culture on earth?]
1Co1 4:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound [unknown tongues], who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood[ here is the force of this entire chapter], how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1Co 14:3… he that prophesieth [speaks in ‘plain English’] speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

So I repeat:

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an [foreign] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

At that point I decided to, (1Co 14:1) Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

I was shown that even though Paul could, (1Co 14:18) … speak with tongues more than ye all:

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [foreign] tongue.

How many people who claim to have the gift of tongues have this scriptural attitude?

Finally, I was shown the purpose for tongues. I now know that (1Co 14:21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [So the ‘tongues under discussion are, “men of other tongues.”]

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe[not ‘the initial evidence of the gift of the Holy Ghost’], but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe [this is the “language… to edify the church aloud,” as you put it.]

Now that I know the function of ‘tongues,’ I understand how the ‘tongues’ spoken on the day of Pentecost were used by the ‘Holy Ghost.’ They were for a sign to them [the Jews] that believed not. What tongues were they speaking? We don’t have to guess. We are told specifically:

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So the 120 on whom the ‘Holy Ghost’ came on the day of Pentecost, did not understand what they were saying, but they were speaking in one of the above listed ‘tongues.’ No one ever spoke in a “tongue of angels.” The reason we have this phrase in scripture is to distinguish it from human languages. In the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [foreign] tongue [even a foreign ‘tongues of angels’].

Co 14:2… he that speaketh in a tongue [a foreign language, when there is no one there to interpret] speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [This is not a word of praise, it is a reprimand. The solution to this infantile behavior of verse two, which simply “edifieth himself,” is verses 3-5.]
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth [speaks in ‘plain English’] speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.1Co14:4 He that speaketh in an [foreign] tongue edifieth himself [when no one understands him]; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church [and what is the point of this statement?].
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with [foreign] tongues, but rather that ye prophesied[ speak in a language everyone understands]: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying [ as well as the person or persons for whom it is “a sign.”]

Once this scriptural purpose for ‘tongues,’ as a “sign to them that believe not,” is understood and believed in, the false doctrine of ‘unknown tongues’ falls away. The ‘unbeliever’ may be a called out saint, such as Peter at the house of the Gentile, Roman centurion, Cornelius. Still, “tongues were for a sign to them that believed not.” It took a duplication of the exact event that occured on Pentecost to convince Peter and all of the Jewish apostles, that God was no longer bound by physical descent in His dealings with mankind.

This was but one of the many (Joh 16:12) “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now” that Christ had referred to on the night before His apprehension by those of the ‘church’ of His day.

Part of the problem involved here is that very few people notice that we are given the scriptural definition of ‘prophecy’ here. How is prophecy defined? (1Co 14:3) He that prophesieth speaketh [speaks in ‘plain English’] unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Now since (2Ti 3:16) All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: “All scripture” is therefore prophecy. ‘Doctrine’ is certainly ‘edification,’ and ‘instruction in righteousness,’ is certainly ‘exhortation.’ But for what purpose? To prove that we have ‘the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost?’ Is this the purpose for anything given to us? No, such phraseology is without scriptural basis whatsoever. Though it may not always be pointed out in the context, such as Acts 19:1-5, we are assured that the purpose for tongues, even here, is “for a sign to them that believed not.” God is not into edifying the flesh. Paul exhorts us, “rather seek to prophecy” for this purpose: (2Ti 3:17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now let’s examine the events of Act 19:1-5.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.
Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Notice that immediately after these disciples receive the gift of tongues, he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

As with Peter, and as with the Jews at Pentecost, these disciples receiving the gift of languages was “for a sign to them which believe not.” The Jews of the synogogue were as obstinate as the Jews at Jerusalem. They were as attached to their privileged position as ‘descendants of Abraham’ as was Peter, while he napped on the roof of the home of Simon the tanner.

“John’s baptism” knew nothing of “Christ [‘dying daily’ to the things of the flesh] in you the hope of glory”

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There is one other point that needs to be brought out in this 14th chapter of I Corinthians.

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This verse does not say, ‘Speak first and wait to see if someone can interpret.’ Paul says it is incumbent upon the person with the gift of tongues to use his gift wisely, as “a sign to them that believe not.” He was to “keep silence in the church” if he had not first determined whether someone was present who was capable of interpreting this particular tongue.

1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy[ even an interpreted language was to edify] one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

In summary, Paul gives us his understanding of the place and comparative importance of tongues:

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [foreign] tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

If only this were the attitude of us all, we would all “in understanding be men,” at least on this one subject.

Again, I do not disdain those who are more concerned with the gift of tongues than with the gift of prophecy. It was only yesterday that I was just such a person. However, yes, to answer your question, “When that which is mature is come that which is in part shall be done away.” Here it is:

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part [We have just been shown how tongues stack up to prophecy].
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [Why interpret something no one on earth understands in the first place? That is “a sign” to no one.]
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In closing, let me point out that, in Peter’s case at Cornelius’ house, he said:

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

What God had “given them… even as he did unto us,” was real languages which served “as a sign to them which believed not.” Paul was not discussing “tongues of angels” in 1 Corinthians 14. He certainly was not discussing what is passed off as ‘unknown tongues’ in the ‘charismatic’ world of today. This was ‘the real thing.’ It was so powerful that it served as a “sign to them that believed not.” Take it from someone with personal experience, ‘unknown tongues,’ often serve the exact opposite purpose and drive away many who are honestly seeking to know The Truth.

I hope I haven’t offended you. That is certainly not my intent. But I have discovered that many who have experienced ‘speaking in unknown tongues’ find it difficult to admit that they have been believing in, and partaking of, a counterfeit. I myself had just such a struggle. It was a real relief to get to where I did not feel superior to those who had “not yet been baptised with the Holy Ghost.”

I hope this has been of some help to you.

Let me hear from you.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike Vinson

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Now all any spiritually honest person has to do is to ask himself, did Paul actually remove any mountains? Had he actually given his body to be burnt? The answer to these questions is as obvious as the answers posed by Paul himself in the previous chapter, where he proves that not everyone who has the Holy Ghost possesses all the gifts of the Holy Ghost. No one has all the gifts, and certainly not one of the gifts of the Holy Ghost is required to be shared by every believer. Here are those very revealing questions:

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to all seven of these questions, for any honest person, is a resounding ‘No, all are not apostles, all are not teachers, and all do not work miracles! Yes, all these worketh that one and the selfsame [ Holy] Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will (1Co 12:11). Yet all do not possess the gifts of healing, all do not speak with tongues, and all do not interpret. And yet Paul assures us:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the [ Holy] Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Paul does not distinguish between ‘the Spirit of God’ and ‘the Spirit of Christ.’ As we are plainly told they are “that one and the selfsame Spirit” (1Co 12:11). ‘Unknown’ tongues are unknown to the scriptures. They discourage those who are too honest to “receive them,” and they “puff up” those who, as I myself once was, have a “zeal for God but not according to knowledge” (Rom 10:2).

When I use the words ‘spiritually honest,’ I am not at all implying that Pentecostal and charismatic people are all spiritually dishonest people. Quite to the contrary, my experience has been that some of the most honest people I have ever known have been charismatics and Pentecostals. And I am not telling you that I was at one time spiritually dishonest. That is not my point. But once I saw the truth revealed when honestly answering Paul’s seven questions; once I saw that the reason “no man understands him” was simply because there was no man there who needed or understood that language, and there was no one there to interpret that language; once I saw that the gifted person was to first determine if there were someone who could interpret his foreign tongue which would be a “sign to unbelievers; once I saw that “in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries” simply because those speaking real languages on the day of Pentecost did not understand what they were speaking, but that there were others there who did; once I saw that the only reason given in scripture for this gift of tongues was as “a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers;” once I saw that in the law it is written, ‘with men of other tongues [ not angels of other tongues] and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord;’ once I saw that the “tongues of angels” matter was a hypothetical question; once all of this became clear, then I would have been a spiritually dishonest person to continue clinging to what I now knew to be scripturally unfounded beliefs.

Once truth is seen, if at that point, we do not relinquish our faulty doctrines; then what was up to that point simply a matter of having “a zeal for God but not according to knowledge” (Rom 10:2), has now progressed to become an “idol of the heart” (Ezekiel 14:1-10). Let us look carefully and prayerfully at these verses:

Ezekiel 14:1 Then came certain of the elders [ Today’s leading ministers] of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Ezekiel 14:2 And the word of the LORD [ The scriptures] came unto me, saying,

Ezekiel 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart [ false, unscriptural doctrines], and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face [ living and acting in accord with their heart’s idols]: should I be enquired of at all by them?

Ezekiel 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart [ continues to cling to his false doctrines after the truth has been presented to him], and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet [ Comes to the Bible trying to force it to fit his heart’s idol]; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols [ God Himself will “send them strong delusion,” and it will be “according to” what they want the Bible to say. It will be “according to the multitude of their idols”];

Ezekiel 14:5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.

Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols [ relinquish your scripturally unfounded doctrines]; and turn away your faces from all your abominations [ living in accord with your unfounded teachings, like: ‘free moral agency,’ ‘the immortality of the soul,’ and it’s accompanying ‘eternal hell fire’ doctrine, the ‘secret, pre- trib rapture, the teaching of tithing in the new covenant, and yes, the unscriptural teaching of ‘unknown tongues.]

Ezekiel 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

Ezekiel 14:8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people [ God’s “people” are not in “buildings made with hands;” they “come out … of Babylon”]; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Ezekiel 14:10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh [ unto him];

‘Unknown tongues’ are not an idol of the heart until one is faced with the truth of the scriptures on the subject. But once we see the truth on this or any other false doctrine, if at that point we begin to reason, ‘My whole church believes and teaches this doctrine. Surely my minister and many other great men of God cannot be wrong about this doctrine. Besides I have believed and taught many others this doctrine all my adult life. Why, if I change my tune now, no one will ever believe a word I ever say again.’ These and a thousand other arguments just like them are the building materials of “idols of the heart.” Any criteria other than ‘what saith the scriptures’ is nothing less than an “idol of the heart.”

Getting back to your question about the ‘tongues of angels,’ in 2Co 13, after reiterating the point that he had made in the first three chapters of this epistle, that you can “come behind in no gift:”

1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

And yet these very same ‘gifted’ tongues- endowed Corinthians we are told were yet “carnal.”

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

After reiterating this point in Chapter 13: ‘though I have all gifts and have not love,’ Paul then tell us what it really is that truly distinguishes a man who has come to know Christ:

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

I can well remember how I used to bristle at any suggestion that my ‘unknown tongues’ were not of God. But the scriptures themselves constrain me to confess that the Truth is “forbid not to speak with tongues,” but ‘unknown tongues,’ as I have said, are unknown to the scriptures.

I cannot speak for others, but as I understand the scriptures, every verse from Genesis to Revelation is part of the ‘revelation of Jesus Christ.’ Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end and everything in between. As such, His word has the same qualities. What this means is that all the gifts of God are still available when they are needed for those who are not yet brought to the point that they can function without them. This is true for every newborn babe in every generation. It is an obvious fact that as long as all of one’s prayers are answered, his faith will never be tried or proven. Spiritual maturity, as the experiences of Paul and all the apostles show, necessitates that we will not always enjoy the benefits of the gifts of the Spirit. It is because we have grown to the point that we value the fruit above the gifts that we are able to be weaned from the outward demonstrations of faith. We cannot have our spiritually mature cake and eat it too. Children need gifts. Mature adults need to give to others whatever it takes to bring them to maturity.

No child yet has ever matured by getting everything he wanted. Withholding the gifts of childhood are a necessary step to spiritual maturity. ‘Charity,’ the true measure of spiritual maturity, “beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things” (1Co 13:7). “Enduring all things” is a strong indication that at some point in the development of every generation of the Christian experience, our faith will be tested.

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

If the gift of real tongues is simply not available today, then neither is the gift of knowledge and neither is the gift of prophecy; we need never ask for healing, and we can never expect to see a miracle. I have yet to witness an Act 2 experience, but I have witnessed healings that, though not instantaneous, were nevertheless miraculous. If Christ truly “is, was and will be,” then the same is true of His Word. It too, “is, was and will be.” If you haven’t yet done so be sure to read Biblical Examples Of Rightly Dividing the Word. It will give you a valuable tool for understanding the way the apostles themselves used the word of God. That tool is not even allowed in the hermeneutics and exegesis of today’s orthodox seminaries.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I received an e- mail last night asking about ‘the tongues of angels,’ of 1Co 13. I will be answering that today. Again the part Paul is deliberately trying to de- emphasize is the part that is being emphasized. Paul, in chapter 13, is, in essence, flatly stating that you can speak in real foreign languages that you have no training in and yet “have not love [agape].” It is undeniable that Paul spoke “in the tongues of men.” But the “of angels” is in the same category as “give my body to be burnt.” Paul had spiritual gifts in their proper perspective. A “carnal … babe in Christ,” with spiritual gifts, would never be able to deceive Paul on any point because Paul was not looking for ‘gifts’ or ‘experiences,’ but for the “more excellent way,” the ‘agape‘ in the life of any man. It is only ‘agape,’ that ‘never passes away.’

Wherever spiritual gifts are mentioned, ‘tongues,’ are always last on the list and healings are always ahead of tongues. Remembering that fact, look in Galatians where Paul tells us that he had an, “infirmity which was in my flesh,” which many believe was a disease in his eyes.

Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Gal 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

I again remind you that Paul could not convince God to heal Trophemus, Epaphroditus or Timothy with his “often infirmities.” If Paul’s faith had been based on a constant physical display of gifts, as Pentecostals require with their ‘gift of unknown tongues,’ then Paul’s faith would have failed him. But Paul knew that gifts were for newcomers. A newborn babe is not “chastened and scourged,” as a young adult is. You don’t spank a new born baby. You wait till it can begin to respond to your instructions. That happens to be a whole lot earlier than most people in today’s society believe, but that is another subject for another time. I am today posting two new letters. One has to do with the different steps that a Christian takes toward maturity. The other has to do with the prophetic sequence of events. Both reveal that maturity is, by God’s own sovereign plan, a time consuming process that is designed to “try our faith” (Jas 1:2-4). God fought the Egyptians for Israel, at the very beginning. Later they were required to do their own fighting, even before they had ever ‘crossed over Jordan,’ and while they were yet uncircumcised. Never ever fail to realize that even though God tells us to ‘go out and fight the Amorites,’ that in reality, the real truth is that “ I have [ already] given them into your hands.” These things “are written for our admonition.” As in life itself, God ‘carried Israel’ for a very short time. The earlier we encourage our children to stand on their own two feet the better off they are. And the sooner the ‘trying of our faith,’ begins, the better off we are.

Having prayers answered, and answered soon, is essential, for those with untried faith, that is for new born babes. It would absolutely inhibit the spiritual growth of a more mature ‘uihos.’

In conclusion, “forbid not to speak with [ foreign] tongues,” but have nothing at all to do with ‘unknown tongues.’

1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

God bless you as you mature in Him,

Mike