Godhead – Is, Was and Will Be – The Unknown Character of Christ and His Word https://www.iswasandwillbe.com Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty Sun, 10 May 2026 17:39:12 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cropped-headerlogo-32x32.png Godhead – Is, Was and Will Be – The Unknown Character of Christ and His Word https://www.iswasandwillbe.com 32 32 Are There Some Things Even Jesus Does Not Know? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/are-there-some-things-even-jesus-does-not-know/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=are-there-some-things-even-jesus-does-not-know Sat, 16 Nov 2024 21:00:09 +0000 https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=31381 Are There Some Things Even Jesus Does Not Know?
[Posted November 16, 2024]

 

Hi C___,

Thank you for your patience, and for your question.

You quoted:

Mar 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33  Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

I will take Christ’s word that He does not know the day nor the hour of His appearing in power and glory to rule this earth with His elect.

What your question highlights is the absurdity of the doctrine of a three headed Godhead, “co-equal in every way”. Christ made it clear that His Father was greater that He:

Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Why would we be surprised that there are things the Father does not at this time share with His Son if indeed “My Father is greater than I”?

Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Those who teach the false doctrine of a triune God argue that the Father’s superiority to Christ lasted only while He was in the flesh. Of course they have no scripture on which to base such a statement. On the other hand we have this statement which was made long after Christ had returned in spirit to be with His Father:

1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

The answer to your question… “Does this mean there are some things that even Jesus does not know?” is in that 3rd verse of 1Corinthians 11…. “…the head of Christ is God [the Father]. It is obvious that every thought originates in our head before our bodies manifest what is in our thoughts. So the answer is, Yes there is at least one thing the Father knows that Christ does not know and that is the day and hour of His appearing.

Mar 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The only people who would have a problem with the Father knowing more than the Son are those who are self-righteously invested in the false doctrine of a triune Godhead. If you have not yet done so be sure to read this link:

Is God a Trinity?

I hope this helps you, C___.

Your fellow servant,
Mike

]]> The Doctrine of the Trinity is “Above That Which is Written” https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/the-doctrine-of-the-trinity-is-above-that-which-is-written/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-doctrine-of-the-trinity-is-above-that-which-is-written Mon, 20 May 2019 23:11:28 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=18831 The Doctrine ​o​f The Trinity ​i​s “Above That Which ​i​s Written”

Hi ​H____​,

I looked at the link you sent me​,​ and to answer your question directly, yes, I do stand by the words in the article ‘Is God A Trinity?’ on iswasandwillbe.com. I saw so much heresy in the first part​ of the link​ you sent, including the false doctrine of ‘free moral agency’, the apostles creed, and the didache (an early manuscript written in the first century A.D.), that I was not led to waste any more of my time with it.

I was much more edified with the list of seven objections to this false doctrine than any of the arguments he used to justify attempting to deny that the God-head is supposed to be understood by “the things that are made”, especially the male and the female “things that are made”:

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This is what Paul tells us he meant by that very clear statement:

1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God… [“the Father”]

How can a three​-​headed monstrosity have a single “head”, as we see in all of “the things that are made”?

Paul had already made it perfectly clear in this same epistle what he means when he speaks of “the head of Christ”:

1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of [G1537​:​ ek, out of] whom are all things [including “the beginning of the creation of God”… Christ, Rev 3:14], and we in him; and [besides this “one God” there is also] one Lord Jesus Christ, by [G1223​:​ ‘dia’, ‘through’] whom are all things, and we by [G1223​:​ ‘dia’, ‘through’] him.

Notice, I never quote any of the apostate, so​-​called “church fathers”. The apostle Paul and I are on the same page… “There is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and [there is also besides the “one God the Father”] one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things”, just as Paul explains in that same 11th chapter. Adam, like God the Father, was first, and out of Him Christ brought a woman of whom Adam was to be the head, reflecting “even His eternal power and Godhead, so we would be without excuse” (Rom 1:20).

I read enough of that link to see this writer quoting Ellen White as if that meant anything. But the worst thing I saw was the circular reasoning of admitting and even quoting where the Catholic Encyclopedia admits, and one of the Popes admit introducing this heresy and then, because the apostasy of  the church was completed before the apostles died, this writer quotes those very apostates saying that the trinity is a Biblical doctrine, and calling me ”dishonest” because I notice how willing he is to use men as his authority instead of the clear words of scripture, a few of which I have quoted above.

Just look at how this man uses apostates as sources and then condemns those who reveal their apostasy as “dishonest” for simply pointing other​s​ to their confessions of tampering with and changing the words of scripture to fit the idols of their hearts:

“Charge 5 – The Catholic Church confesses to changing the words

This is probably the weakest of all the arguments. This can be considered to be debunked by all the evidence we have seen up until this point. However, sometimes there is a lack of care in reading the words of the Catholic writers. [Who cares about the “words of Catholic writers” – 1Co 4:6] Most of these so-called ‘confessions’ do not pertain to the text of Matthew 28:19 but the use of Matthew 28:19 as a liturgical baptismal formula. For example:

“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. II, p. 263)

Notice that this statement pertains to the formula used in baptism. We have seen that the words of Matthew 28:19 were not originally a formula and that this later development occurred in the second and third centuries. So this is simply a reflection of fact. Perhaps the most misused quote from the Catholic Church on this regard is from then future pope, Joseph Ratzinger.

“The basic form of our profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text comes from the city of Rome; but its internal origin lies in worship; more precisely, in the conferring of baptism.” (Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity, 2nd Edition)

This quote is used dishonestly by many who reject the words of Matthew 28:19. The “text” that is being referred to in the quote is not the text of Matthew 28:19, but the Apostles Creed. Note the discussion leading immediately up to the above quote:

“All that we have said so far has done no more than attempt to answer the formal question of what belief as such is and where in the world of modern thought it can find a starting point and a function to perform. The more far-reaching problems relating to its content thus necessarily remained open-with the whole subject permaps looking only too pale and ill-defined. The answers can only be found by looking at the concrete shape of Christian belief, and this we now mean to consider, using the so-called Apostles’ Creed as a guiding thread. It may be useful to preface the discussion with a few facts about the origin and structure of the Creed; these will at the same time through some light on the legitimacy of the procedure.” (loc. cit.)

In fact, Ratzinger later goes on to quote Matthew 28:19 as the basis for the Apostles’ Creed, showing that Ratzinger understands these to be the words of Christ.

“This again was fundamentally based on the words of Christ recorded in Matthew 28:19: ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (loc. cit.)

So it is clear that whoever first used this quote to question the wording of Matthew 28:19 did so dishonestly. All who have subsequently used these words have done so lazily, never checking the context. [End of Quote]

Just look at all the authorities this man quotes! He is obviously totally unaware of this verse of scripture:

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brothers, I applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us ye might learn not to think above that which is written, so that ye may not be puffed up, one over the one against the other. (ACV)

Why would we quote an apostate to begin with, and why would any truly honest person care what the doctrines of apostate so-called ‘church fathers’ are, who thought it completely scriptural to physically kill anyone they considered to be an apostate? I have never denied that I am commanded to “love [my] enemies”, not burn them at a stake and cut out their tongue before doing so, so that person cannot utter another word of his so-called heresy. These men were one and all as carnal as the first Adam himself, and their own mouths condemn them, and all who stand with them, and their hearts idols will receive the same reward:

Eze 14:7  For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8  And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze 14:10  And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him; 

This writer points out the apostasy of the doctrine of a triune God, even with quotes from the apostates themselves like these:

“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. II, p. 263)

“The basic form of our profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text comes from the city of Rome; but its internal origin lies in worship; more precisely, in the conferring of baptism.” (Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity, 2nd Edition)

“The text comes from the city of Rome… by the Catholic Church”, and it is certainly “above that which is written” which is “in Jesus’ name” as demonstrated throughout the book of Acts. What does it matter if “the text referred to is the apostles’ creed”? The subject is still “in connection with the ceremony of baptism”, and the scriptures reveal time after time the disciples baptized “in the name of the Lord Jesus”:

Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

What a slap in the face of an “equal but separate part of the Godhead” to be so sleighted over and  over and  over again throughout all the Gospels and Acts and all the epistles of the apostles, to leave out such an “equal but separate” person.

The false doctrine of a triune God is the trunk of the tree of all the false doctrines which shore up all the daughters of the great harlot. It is this doctrine which teaches that since God is triune, and we are in His image, therefore we, too, must be a triune being with a body and an immortal soul and a spirit. Without this foundation of lies, there could not be the other false doctrines of the immortality of the soul and an eternal hell of literal flames of fire tormenting me with excruciating pain for all eternity by a ‘God of love’.

Why is the Greek word ‘parakleetos‘ translated with two different English words if not to hide the truth that Jesus Christ was given His Father’s spirit so Christ Himself could come to us through His Father’s spirit, as the comforter to His elect, and through that same “holy spirit of God” (Eph 4:30) Christ is also our “advocate [parakleetos] with the Father”:

Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter [Greek​:​ parakleetos] that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 

How could the ‘holy ghost’ “dwell with you” if “it is expedient that I go away because if I go not away the comforter cannot come”???

“The comforter, the spirit of Truth, [and our] advocate with [the one God] the Father”​,​ are all through “the holy spirit of God” (Eph 4:30) one and the same… “the man Jesus Christ”:

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he [the parakleetos, also called…], the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15  All things [including “the holy spirit of God” Eph 4:30] that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The holy spirit clearly is not a person, rather it is “the holy spirit of God”, the holy spirit of the “one God, the Father, of whom are all things”, and who has given that spirit to Christ and through “the holy spirit of God” Christ is now accomplishing all His Father has placed upon Him, including being our “advocate with the ​(​”one God”), the Father”:

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not [including the teaching of false doctrines]. And if any man sin, we have an advocate [Same Greek word ‘parakleetos‘ translated as ‘comforter’ in John 14, 15, and 16] with the Father [And who is our ‘parakleetos‘, our ‘advocate with the Father’? Well, ​l​o and behold it is] , Jesus Christ the righteous:

The Greek for our English words “holy ghost” is hagios pneuma, and it is defined in scripture simply as “the holy spirit of God”:

Eph 4:30  And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Why doesn’t this verse read “the Holy Ghost of God” as these two words ‘hagios pneuma‘ are translated everywhere else in the New Testament? I think we both know why that is. It would reveal that the holy spirit is the power of God and is not a person of the Godhead which is to be “understood by the things that are made… the head of the man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God” (1Co 11:3).

Why did Christ say that His Father had given Him all things, including His Father’s spirit, which Christ was now free to give to others?

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15  All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Why is it “expedient that [Christ] go away”? Is the third part of the Godhead restricted by the second part? How absurd! The reason Christ had to go away was so He Himself could, through “the holy spirit of God”​,​ come and dwell within each of His elect. He does not dwell in any who are teaching lies about “His eternal power and Godhead” such as the false doctrine of a “triune God” of whom “the things that are made​”​ teach us nothing.

In these verses in John 16, Christ refers to the holy spirit as both “the comforter” and as “the spirit of Truth”. He also tells us “I am the way the Truth and the life”. Then after explaining all of this​,​ He tells us plainly​,​ “All things the Father [the “one God” of 1Co 8:6] has are mine, that is why I said that He shall take of mine [the comforter and the spirit of Truth] and shall show it unto you​.​”

Your brother who, Lord willing, will never “think above that which is written” (1Co 4:6),

Mike

]]> Are We Redeemed Back to The God Family? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/are-we-redeemed-back-to-the-god-family/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=are-we-redeemed-back-to-the-god-family Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:41:29 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=11859

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the wonderful teachings. They’re a Godsend. I heard that when you look up the word God, it’s a plural word and a title with Father and Son within the Godhead meaning divine ones and we were redeemed back to our family within the Godhead. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Yours sincerely,
J____

Hi J____,

Thank you for encouraging words of gratitude, and thank you for your question.

You asked:

There are times in the original Hebrew and Greek that a plural is used, and there are times in both languages when the singular is used. It certainly is not plural in this verse:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and [besides the “one God, the Father” there is also] one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

On the other hand, when we see the word ‘us’ used with the word ‘God’ as in Genesis 1, that Hebrew word is Elohim, and it is a plural form, which is translated with the singular English word ‘God’.

Gen 1:26 And God [Hebrew: Elohim – Christ and the Father] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Since you asked for my comment, I will assure you that our coming to know God and His son is a first time thing and not something we are “redeemed back to” as if we started out as part of the family of God. We are indeed ‘redeemed’, but we are ‘redeemed’ from sin and death, the “marred” state in which we came from “the Potter’s hand”:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

I will close by encouraging you to read ‘Is God A Trinity’ which can be found here.

Your brother and servant,

Mike

]]> Is It Possible for Christ to Pre-exist and Still Be a Created Being? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/is-it-possible-for-christ-to-pre-exist-and-still-be-a-created-being/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-it-possible-for-christ-to-pre-exist-and-still-be-a-created-being Mon, 05 Jan 2015 02:25:25 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=8642 Is It Possible For Christ To Pre-Exist, and Still Be A Created Being?

Hi A____,

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, it is obvious that we both have given this subject much thought.

You ask me:

“Have you ever thought that there was a time when Jesus was not the Son. Father and Son being human concepts, father presupposes that he is older than a son and son presupposes that he is younger than a father yet we know that both have no beginning, they have always existed.”

Yes, indeed, I have considered Christ’s origins, and I am aware that He pre-existed. But no, Christ’s pre-existence does not necessitate Him having no beginning. We are specifically told that we are to understand His eternal power and Godhead by the things that are made”, not by an unscriptural doctrine which the Catholic Encyclopedia admits was added to scripture, as I demonstrate in the paper on the trinity and in this link:

Can A Lie In The Translation Be Weeded Out?


http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/trinity.php/

Christ specifically calls Himself “the beginning of the creation of God”.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

According to scripture there was never a time when Christ was not a ‘son’ in the sense of having issued forth from His Father. That fact is plainly stated for us:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and [besides that “one God, the Father, of whom are all things, including Christ, there is also…] one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I simply believe that when I read, “one God the Father, of who are all things… [“all things” includes] one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things [is] the beginning of the creation… of [that] one God, the Father”. Why would I want to deny that the “one Lord by whom are all things” is not of the “one Father, “of whom are all things”?

Romans 1:20 tells us how we are to understand “the invisible things of God… even His… Godhead”:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

“The things that are made” refers specifically to the marriage union, because we are told who is “the head of Christ” in this verse:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

“The head of every man is Christ”; surely no one believes that “every man” is “co-equal” with Christ. “And the head of Christ is God” demonstrates exactly what Romans 1:20 is teaching us and what 1 Corinthians 8:6 is telling us. They all agree that “there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things”. “Of… God… by… Christ” is exactly what Paul says of the man and of the woman, which is “the things that are made [by which] the invisible things of God are clearly seen… even His eternal power and Godhead”.

1 Corinthians 8:6 teaches us the principle that “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things”. Notice the parallel Paul is making in the very same 11th chapter of 1 Corinthians:

1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

That is the scriptural way to understand “even His eternal power and Godhead”. Just as “the head of every man is Christ” so also “the head of Christ is God”.

You make this statement:

“Father and Son being human concepts, father presupposes that he is older than a son and son presupposes that he is younger than a father yet we know that both have no beginning, they have always existed.”

That is classic, human, circular reasoning which completely denies that “the invisible things of God are clearly seen… by the things that are made”.

Your doctrine, in the face of all these verses to the contrary, is: “We know that both have no beginning, [therefore we know] they have always existed”??? I must now choose whether to believe your doctrine that “We know that both have no beginning”, or Christ’s doctrine which tell me plainly that He is “the beginning of the creation of God”, and that “the head of Christ is God” just as “the head of every man is Christ”.

You say “Father and Son being human concepts”, and then attempt to use that fact to prove that human concepts of “the things that are made” are not used by God to explain spiritual concepts. The fact is that, according to the scriptures, Romans 1:20 in particular teaches us that the very opposite is true. I pray you are given to accept what you are about to reread concerning the mind of our “One God, the Father, of whom are all things” as He explains to us how we are given, by Him to understand what is His relationship to our “one Lord by whom are all things”. Here is how He will explain to us His eternal power and [the] Godhead, and His relationship with Christ:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Which “things that are made” will give us a proper understanding of the Godhead? Is this referring to the three parts of an egg? Is this verse referring to the three stages of water, as many trinitarians want us to believe?

If your belief in the trinity has become an “idol of [your] heart”, then nothing the scriptures tell us about who is, was and always will be “the head of Christ”, will change your mind, because you will just continue to believe that the Father and the Son are “co-equal, co-eternal, and co-substantial”.

I cannot agree that He had no beginning when He Himself tells me otherwise:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Here is your e-mail which I will deal with in order.

Your first paragraph:

“Where do I start? You are certainly a student of the scriptures and have plumbed its depths and certainly are to be commended. Yet there is always more we are learning, and only God knows all things. Col 2:3”

I could not agree more. “There is always more we are learning”. Yet while we are learning, we must be discerning what is and what is not “the voice of the… true shepherd”. Christ’s sheep know His voice and will not follow the voice of a stranger (Joh 10:26-30):

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

How could Christ possibly have left out and ignored the third equal person of the Godhead if the holy spirit is actually such a person?

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

“Have you ever considered 1 Cor 12:3 no one can say Jesus is Lord (Jehovah) except by the Holy Spirit. If we have the Spirit of God, Rom 8:9,14, 27 we are walking in the light even as He is in the light. Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.”

Yes, I certainly have considered that verse, and as you yourself use the phrase, “the spirit”, you need to know that”the holy spirit is the “holy spirit of God“.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

“There is one God, the Father, of whom are all things” certainly includes “the holy spirit of God”. It is not a separate person of the Godhead. That is why Christ and all of His apostles never refer to the holy spirit as a person, and that is why they call it, as you yourself did, “the spirit of God”.

“The gospel tells us that Jesus existed in the heavens from eternity Micah 5:2 Although He was existing in God’s form, He thought it not robbery to be equal with God but emptied Himself and became a man, the ultimate humiliation. Jesus did this because God cannot die, but as a man He could. Php 2:”

Here is what Micah 5:2 actually says:

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting [Hebrew, ‘olawm’.

Now let us examine what the translators have done with this verse to make it accord with their false doctrine of Christ having no beginning. This is something which men ought to fear to do, but which the translators did with impunity. Notice what Mr. James Strong, who was a trinitarian, shows us concerning this verse of scripture. Here is this verse with Strong’s numbers for each Hebrew word beside every English word:

Mic 5:2 But thou,H859 BethlehemH1035 Ephratah,H672 though thou beH1961 littleH6810 among the thousandsH505 of Judah,H3063 yet out ofH4480 thee shall he come forthH3318 unto me that is to beH1961 rulerH4910 in Israel;H3478 whose goings forthH4163 have been from of old,H4480 H6924 from everlasting.H4480 H3117 H5769

I have emboldened the three numbers at the end of this verse to draw attention to the fact that they are translated by but two English words, the words ‘from everlasting’. It is from this verse that you conclude: “The gospel tells us that Jesus existed in the heavens from eternity Micah 5:2”. But the translators were forced to ignore the Hebrew word to which James Strong has assigned the number H3117. Here is what Strong himself tells us that word means:

H3117
יום yôm
yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): – age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

But that word does not accord with the false doctrine which teaches that Christ is not “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14), and the Hebrew word behind the number H5769 is ‘olawm’, which is defined thusly:

From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: – always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.

It never pays to simply accept Mr. Strong’s definitions without checking how any particular word is used in the scriptures. When we do so, we find that his added words “(practically) eternity” and “eternal” are completely wrong. This Hebrew word is translated with the Greek word ‘aion’ meaning ‘an age’, as in these verses:

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Here is this verse with Strong’s numbers:

Psa 45:6 Thy throne,H3678 O God,H430 is for everH5769 and ever:H5703 the sceptreH7626 of thy kingdomH4438 is a rightH4334 sceptre.H7626

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Here is this verse with Strong’s numbers. Notice that the holy spirit uses just one Greek word to translate the two Hebrew words ‘olawn’ and ‘ad’

Heb 1:8 ButG1161 untoG4314 theG3588 SonG5207 he saith, ThyG4675 throne,G2362 O God,G2316 is for ever and ever:G1519 G165 G165 a sceptreG4464 of righteousnessG2118 is theG3588 sceptreG4464 of thyG4675 kingdom.G932

Here now is Strong’s definition of the Greek word which Mr. Strong has assigned the number G165:

G165
αἰών
aiōn ahee-ohn’

From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): – age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550

The Greek word ‘aion’ is properly translated as “an age”. The “by extension pertpetutiy” is admittedly not “proper”, and is again a blatant addition to the Words of God.

Here is how Rotherham has translated Micah 5:2:

Mic 5:2 Thou, therefore, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though little, to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee, shall Mine come forth, to be ruler in Israel,—whose comings forth, have been from of old, from the days of age-past time.

Mr. Rotherham was not constrained to leave out the Hebrew word ‘yom’, neither was he inclined to twist the Word ‘olawm’ into making it ‘for ever’. Christ has not always existed, and the scriptures will always bear out that Truth when they are properly translated.

“Jesus is now the son of God, He retains His humanity for ever. Have you ever thought that there was a time when Jesus was not the Son. Father and Son being human concepts, father presupposes that he is older than a son and son presupposes that he is younger than a father yet we know that both have no beginning, they have always existed. Jesus is the son because of the event 2000 years ago in Bethlehem. Jesus is the firstborn, it is a title which means first in preeminence.”

‘Father’ and ‘Son’, are both scriptural words, which are used to explain to us “by the things that are made… His eonian power and Godhead”.

“The bible tells us that the Father is greater than the Son John 14:28 This is true in regard to relationship, a father is greater than a son but this is in regard to rank not essence. The Father is not better than the son, they are both the same quality. As an example the husband is greater than the wife but he is not better than her as they are both human beings. Both the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have the same family name, Jehovah Matt 28:19”

“The Father is greater than the Son in rank” denies that they are co-equal, which is an integral part of the doctrine of the trinity, while at the same time saying the Son is subject to the Father. It is nothing less than the forked tongue of that old serpent the devil, who denied that Adam and Eve would die, while admitting that they would be like God to “know good and evil”. By convincing them they would never die, the serpent made mankind believe the lie that mankind is also an eternal triune being, and therefore it follows that mankind’s Creator was a triune being. This false trinity doctrine is the very foundation upon which the false doctrine of eternal torment is based. If mankind truly dies like a beast, then there is no eternal torment, and if there is not eternal torment then there is no immortal soul, which is exactly what the scriptures actually teach:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

“If words have meaning and the bible was inspired by God the Holy Spirirt and He chose to use the masculine pronoun ‘He’ in reference to Himself, it would be for us a contradiction and error to argue with Him.”

The masculine pronoun ‘him’ is used in scripture to personify sin:

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

So the use of the masculine pronoun to prove that the holy spirit is not the spirit of God is not a valid argument when the scripture teach otherwise:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God [“The Father”], whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It would amount to nothing less than a slap in the face of a third equal person to ignore him and leave him out of every mention by the apostles of Christ and His Father, which ‘Father’ just happens to be “the holy spirit”:

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Once again the holy spirit is “the holy spirit of God… the Father of whom are all things” (1Co 8:6).

“As I pointed out in my essay, how many Kings do you worship? How many can be First and Last? Who is the Husband, the Father or is it the Son? Or who is the Rock, Jesus or is it the Father? The correct answer is the one true God. Is Jesus part of the one true God? John 17:3 It is life eternal to know the only true God. Eternal Life lies in Jesus Christ for there is not another name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Jesus is certainly then a part of the one true God.”

Let’s just quote John 17:3 and see what it says:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

What an absolute insult it is to ignore the “third person of the Godhead” in such a disrespectful manner, if indeed there were such a “person”. But that is not how we are told to “understand His eternal power and God head” (Rom 1:20).

“The head of Christ is God… the Father, of whom are all things”, and that headship is “understood by “the head of the woman is the man”. It is not understood by ‘the head of the woman is Adam and Steve’.

“The Holy Spirit longs to have fellowship with us and give to us His gifts of love, joy, peace, forbearance etc. If you come to the table and do not regard the one next to you, just what kind of relationship is there to be had?”

My point exactly! Why is this supposed third person so ignored by all the writers of the New Testament?

2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

“Jesus says, If you do not believe that I am who I say I am, ye shall die in your sins. Similarly every sin will be forgiven men except the blasphemey (sin) against the Holy Spirit Matt 12:31,32 Why would you grieve the Holy Spirit with unbelief? Eph 4:30 Isaiah 63:10”

Indeed, why would we “grieve the holy spirit of God”? by teaching that the holy spirit is a separate person, instead of simply being the spirit of God of which all ‘the things which are seen [are] made”?

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Here is another link which demonstrates how crucial to the removing of the whole stay of bread is this false doctrine of the trinity:

http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/Free_will_fall_trinity.php
The trinity is the trunk of the tree of all false doctines.

Isa 3:1 For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,

While I have already covered the subject of Christ being the “beginning of the creation of God”, I will take the time to reiterate that point.

Albert Barnes, a trinitarian, in his commentary confesses that the Greek word ‘arche’ as “the author of creation, and in that sense the beginning, though expressing a scriptural doctrine… is not in accordance with the proper meaning of the word [arche] used here…”

“…it may be observed, that the first one – that he is the author of the creation, and in that sense the beginning – though expressing a scriptural doctrine Joh 1:3; Eph 3:9; Col 1:16, is not in accordance with the proper meaning of the word used here – ἀρχὴ archē. The word properly refers to the “commencement” of a thing, not its “authorship,” and denotes properly primacy in time, and primacy in rank, but not primacy in the sense of causing anything to exist. The two ideas which run through the word as it is used in the New Testament are those just suggested. For the former – primacy in regard to time – that is properly the commencement of a thing, see the following passages where the word occurs: Mat_19:4, Mat_19:8; Mat_24:8, Mat_24:21; Mar_1:1; Mar_10:6; Mar_13:8, Mar_13:19; Luk_1:2; Joh_1:1-2; Joh_2:11; Joh_6:64; Joh_8:25, Joh_8:44; Joh_15:27; Joh_16:4; Act_11:15; 1Jo_1:1; 1Jo_2:7, 1Jo_2:13-14, 1Jo_2:24; 1Jo_3:8, 1Jo_3:11; 2Jo_1:5-6. For the latter signification, primacy of rank or authority, see the following places: Luk_12:11; Luk_20:20; Rom_8:38; 1Co_15:24; Eph_1:21; Eph_3:10; Eph_6:12; Col_1:16, Col_1:18; Col_2:10, Col_2:15; Tit_3:1. The word is not, therefore, found in the sense of authorship, as denoting that one is the beginning of anything in the sense that he caused it to have an existence.”

Barnes believes in the doctrine of the trinity and goes right on to effectively deny the point he has just so profoundly demonstrated. Christ has just informed us that He is “the beginning of the creation of God”, and because of that He was able to divest Himself of “the glory [He] had with [His Father] before the world began” and die and be raised up again from among the dead.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

“All things are of… the Father” (1Co 8:6), so there is no possible way for the Father to “empty Himself and take on Him the form of a servant [or] the likeness of men”.

Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;

On the other hand, Christ is called “the image of the invisible God”, and as “the image”, instead of the “one God, the Father of whom are all things”, Christ was capable of “emptying Himself… [of] the glory He had with His Father before the world began”.

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

No “image” is the actual thing of which it is the ‘image. Therefore the “image of the invisible God” can be and is “the beginning of the creation of [the] one God, the Father, of whom are all things”, who ‘began his creation’ with Christ, “by whom are all [other] things”, simply because “it pleased the Father”.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Can A Lie In The Translation Be Weeded Out?

Your servant with Christ and His Father,
Mike

]]> When Were The Scriptures First Being Corrupted? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/when-were-the-scriptures-first-being-corrupted/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=when-were-the-scriptures-first-being-corrupted Mon, 27 Jan 2014 01:05:14 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=5862

Good afternoon,

Concerning the JFB commentary you cite on this verse, there is another source that is of greater weight in support of the 1Jn 5:7 verse and that is Cyprian in his first treatise, Unity of the Church, article 6:

“6. … He who breaks the peace and the concord of Christ, does so in opposition to Christ; he who gathereth elsewhere than in the Church, scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord says, “I and the Father are one;” and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, “And these three are one.” And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold this unity does not hold God’s law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation. (from Ante- Nicene Fathers, Volume 5, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright© 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)”

We know that he lived during the late second and early third centuries (200-258). Taking this into consideration it begs the question why he would quote such a verse if it were not handed down to him from first or second century witnesses. We know also that he studied under Tertullian who was born in 160 and converted between 190 and 200.

We also know “The precise year it is impossible to determine; but it was probably written before the destruction of Jerusalem; and perhaps about the year 68 or 69 A. D., though some think not before 80 A. D.”  (from Adam Clarke’s Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright© 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Again this is not that far removed from the dates of Tertullian’s or Cyprian’s writings.

Barne’s notes commentary:

“I. It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in NO Greek manuscript written before the 16 th century. Indeed, it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age- one the Codex Montfortianus, or Britannicus, written in the beginning of the sixteenth century, and the other the Codex Ravianus, which is a mere transcript of the text, taken partly from the third edition of Stephen’s New Testament, and partly from the Complutensian Polyglott. But it is incredible that a genuine passage of the New Testament should be missing in ALL the early Greek manuscripts.

II. It is missing in the earliest versions, and, indeed, in a large part of the versions of the New Testament which have been made in all former times. It is wanting in both the Syriac versions – one of which was made probably in the first century; in the Coptic, Armenian, Slavonic, Ethiopic, and Arabic.  (from Barnes’ Notes, Electronic Database Copyright© 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)”

It is interesting to me that in this commentary, as well as the JFB, there is no mention of Cyprian quoting this passage in dispute even though it occurred in the late second or early third century. This again begs the question that even though it may be wanting in many MSS, why was a third century writer quoting it? I realize there is no way to verify this, but his statement suggests that it is reasonable to believe that before the 2nd century the trinity was being taught. Now obviously one can assume that this would have been heresy, but then there is nothing in history to suggest that Cyprian was seen as a heretic.

What are your thoughts? I go back and forth on the entire subject of a triune God, and to be honest the statement by Cyprian is rather convincing evidence pointing to an early teaching on the trinity at least at the end of the first century which is not that far removed from the writings of John.

R____,

PS. I have enjoyed the teachings I have read on your site.

Hi R____,

Thank you for pointing this out. It is a quote of which I was unaware.

Nevertheless, “the sum of [ God’s] word” demonstrates that the “Godhead” is to be “understood by the things that are made”.

Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever. (ASV)

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We are not left to guess which “things that are made” reveal to us who is “the head of Christ”. We are told who is the “head” of whom in the “Godhead”:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God [“the Father” 1Co 8:6].

Right there in 1Co 11:3, as throughout the New Testament, only Christ and His Father are mentioned, and what the scriptures call “the holy spirit of God” is not mentioned, simply because it was never even considered to be a personality. Notice how the scriptures demonstrate the apostles used that phrase “the holy spirit”, or in the Greek “the hagios pneuma”:

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It is not Christ who IS the holy spirit. Rather what the scriptures do reveal is that God has given “all things that [He] has” to Christ, and Christ in turn is now empowered to give His Father’s spirit to a select few, and by “the holy spirit of God”, Christ can now dwell in all those who are given to Him of His Father.

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Again, notice there is no mention of the holy spirit as a person when our Lord refers to His “head”:

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine [ including the Father’s “hagios pneuma”]: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So what are we to make of that very early reference to 1Jn 5:7 by Cyprian in the late second and early third century? Here is what that indicates:

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

So the apostates who would lead the church into apostasy are clearly shown to have been right there among the very “elders of Ephesus” and in “all they in Asia”, before the apostles died and while they were yet ministering to the churches. Consider these verses of scripture:

2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

“Asia” is where Paul spent the bulk of his time, and where he received the bulk of his persecution. It happens to be the same area which as a type of the entire Babylonian, orthodox Christian church, the book of Revelation is addressed:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

The apostle Peter knew what was taking place in the church, and it provoked him to write this to the same people who were “wrest[ ing]” the words of the apostle Paul before the apostles had even died, much less “the late second and early third centuries” when Cyprian was quoting those who had already “wrested” the Word of God concerning what is the nature of the “Godhead”:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

John wrote the book of Revelation to the very people who had him put on the Isle of Patmos, and this is what he reveals about those people and what was already done in the church before he was ever sent to Patmos:

3Jn 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Diotrephes could not cast out those John had sent to the church if the church had not been behind Diotrephes.

“All they which are in Asia” had forsaken Paul. Peter tells us that those in the churches he was addressing were “wresting… the… scriptures”, and John tells us that he was not received by the church, and those he sent were “cast out of the church”. So the apostasy of the church was an accomplished fact before the apostles were even dead. How much more apostatized, wrested and corrupted had the church become by the time of Cyprian who “lived in the late second and early third centuries”? Old manuscripts do not equate to uncorrupted manuscripts. The fact is that the oldest manuscripts are some of the most corrupt. A much better and more Biblical way of deciding which manuscripts are most reliable is to go to “the sum of thy Word”, and when we use that method, we must most definitely confess that Mat 28:19 is not in the majority of the manuscripts, and neither Isa 1Jn 5:7.

For in depth proof of those statements read these links:

Can A Lie In The Translation Be Weeded Out?

Spurious Verses In KJV

So again I want to thank you for bringing this early quote from Cyprian to my attention. I hope you will continue to “enjoy what you are reading on [the] site”, and I hope that after reading all of this with a desire only to know the Truth, that you will understand why I am not surprised to find that “before the 2nd century the trinity was being taught”. Neither am I the least bit surprised to discover that Cyprian was quoting an already corrupted text as early as “the late second and the beginning of the third century”. The church had, in the words of the scriptures themselves “all… forsaken, wrested the scriptures, and cast out of the church” those who were faithful to the apostles teachings over a century earlier.

Your brother in Christ,

Mike

]]> Is it Permissible to Worship Christ? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/is-it-permissible-to-worship-christ/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-it-permissible-to-worship-christ Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:29:44 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=3004

Mike,

I have been carefully reading your article “Is God A Trinity?” Your argument directly from scripture lets Jesus speak for Himself. In spite of the fact that Christ was created by the Father, my question is: Is Christ as a deity to be worshiped?

Thanks,
B____

Hi B____,

Thank you for your question.
The answer is yes, Christ is to be worshiped, and He permitted people to worship Him.

Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

We “worship Him” as our head, yet recognizing the Truth which He testifies to us that He also has a head, which is God the Father.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

What does this tell us about Christ’s relationship with His Father?

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Is Christ God? Certainly! We just read where He permitted Himself to be worshiped. Yet we see Him telling us His Father is greater than He is. There can be but one supreme being. There are not two or more supremacies.
So Christ has a head whom He worships and to whom He submits Himself.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But the Father has decreed that the only way to worship Him is through His Son in whom He has placed the fulness of the Godhead.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

So just as Christ is the image of His Father and worships His Father, so too, we are commanded to become the image of His son and to worship our Father, Christ, “because it pleases the Father” to do so.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

“As He is, so are we” but not to the extent of having the power of the throne.

Gen 41:40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

So we cannot even come to the throne of God the Father without coming through the Father’s anointed, His Christ.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I pray these verses of scripture are sufficient to demonstrate to you that Christ permitted and even encouraged others to worship Him.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Your brother who worships his Head whom the Father has sent.
Mike

]]> Why Is Wisdom Portrayed in The Female Gender? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/why-is-wisdom-portrayed-in-the-female-gender/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-is-wisdom-portrayed-in-the-female-gender Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:46:13 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=5653

Hi Mike,

Had a question on my mind for a couple days. In Proverbs, Solomon, as well as Jesus himself, I notice refer to wisdom as her? Have you ever noticed this? Any significance to this?

Thanks,
J____

Hi J____,

Thank you for your question.

You ask:

Yes, indeed I have noticed this, and yes, there is great spiritual significance to the fact that wisdom is referred to in the feminine gender . Let’s just look at a verse in Proverbs and where Christ mentions wisdom in the New Testament in the feminine gender:

Pro 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

“Wisdom has builded her house, she has hewn out her seven pillars”. Who is “she [who] has hewn out here seven pillars”? To answer that question we need to notice that “the Lord by wisdom founded the earth…”

Pro 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

So wisdom is a ‘she’, and it was “by wisdom” that the earth was founded. Who is this ‘wisdom’?

What else are we told of this ‘wisdom’? Let’s add this bit of knowledge to our understanding of whom we refer when we speak of ‘wisdom’. It is in Pro 3, in the verses which immediately precede verse 19 where we are told that, “The Lord by wisdom has founded the earth”. Here is more information about who is ‘wisdom’.

Pro 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
Pro 3:14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
Pro 3:15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Pro 3:16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Pro 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
Pro 3:18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.

“She is a tree of life”. That is who ‘wisdom’ is.

The most basic knowledge of Biblical symbolism reveals that any reference to the female gender in scripture points us to the head of that gender. The head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, and “the head of Christ is God”. Now which of these is ‘wisdom’?

‘Wisdom’ certainly is not the woman, because her head is the man. Wisdom is certainly not the man because his head is Christ. But since God “by wisdom founded the earth”, and since wisdom “is a tree of life unto them that lay hold upon her”, and since “the head of Christ is God”, then it only follows that it was by Christ that the earth was founded, and it is Christ who is a tree of life to those who lay hold on Him, and it is Christ, who was with God “from the beginning”. It is only Christ that can be this ‘wisdom’, because it is Christ who we are told, was used of God to create all things,

Col 1:16 For by him [Christ, wisdom] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Look at how closely these verses agree with the characteristics of wisdom described in Pro 8:

Pro 8:23 I [wisdom] was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.

“Hearken to me… whoso finds me finds life”. Who is life?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So this all points to the fact that just as “the man is the head of the woman”, in the same way “the head of Christ is God”. So the Truth of this verse is confirmed in 1Co 11:3, “The head of Christ is God”. In other words Christ is not only the Son of God, He is also God’s wife, through whom He has produced all of His creation, and by whom we understand the godhead.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

“The things that are made”, refers to the creation of mankind as male and female in the garden of Eden.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It does not refer to the three forms of water, nor does it refer to the three parts of an egg. Three is the number of the process of judgment, and the three forms of water and the three parts of an egg reveal much about the process by which we are judged and brought to God. They have nothing to do with “His eternal power and Godhead”. Read this for a deeper understanding of the spiritual significance of the number three:

https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/numbers-in-scripture-three-the-process-of-spiritual-completion-through-judgment

So what do “the things that are made” reveal concerning “his eternal power and godhead”? Who exactly is the head who relates to “His eternal power and Godhead”?

Eve was said to be a woman because ‘woman’ means ‘out of man’, and Eve came out from Adam, the man.

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

There it is. That is the order which God the Father has established through Christ at creation. That is what makes the Godhead “clearly seen”. It is laid out for us in no uncertain terms in 1Co 11. Adam is the head of the woman because the woman “was taken out of Man”.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

If man is the head of the woman because “she was taken out of Man”, then it follows that God is the head of Christ because Christ came out of God the Father. The Father is not of Christ, but Christ is of the Father. Neither was the Father created for Christ, but Christ for the Father. Is that really what the scriptures teach?

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou [the Father] gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

So “the head of Christ is God”, just as “the head of the woman is the man”. What this all tells those with eyes that see and ears that hear is that God created Christ, and through Christ He created mankind.

Mankind may be confused about the Godhead, but Christ has never been confused. He did not say ‘The Godhead is a mystery which you cannot understand’. To the contrary Christ said “My Father is greater than I”, and I am “the beginning of the creation of God”.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

So it was Christ who created Adam at what the scriptures call “the foundation of the world”.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Abel was, of course, the son of Adam. But Christ tells us that He Himself is “the beginning of the creation of God”. So then it was through Christ that God created Adam, and it was through Adam that Christ created all of mankind, and all of mankind is said to be “in Adam”.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So Christ is headed up by God, and He submits to God as His head. Man is headed up by Christ, and in His time, will acknowledge that Christ is his head, just as the woman is headed up by the man, and in time submits to her husband.

In Isaiah, Christ can identify with Israel in the female gender as He identifies with Israel in Hos 1 as His son coming out of Egypt. Christ calls Israel both His wife and His son.

Isa 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

I hope this all serves to help you to see and to understand that it is the fact that “the head of Christ is God” that wisdom is spiritually referred to in the feminine, submissive gender.

Your brother in Christ, who is also, Lord willing His submissive bride.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ [‘wisdom’ with His Father] and the church.

Mike

 

]]> Who Is The Beginning of Gods Creation? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/who-is-the-beginning-of-gods-creation/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=who-is-the-beginning-of-gods-creation Sat, 14 May 2011 04:19:27 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=5545

Hi Mike,
For the past three days I have been relentlessly pursuing the truth about the Trinity. I want to know the truth even if it’s the opposite of what I’ve always believed. There is a couple of places that “hang me up”. I was wondering if you could help me answer a few things.
First of all, what Bible is closest to the Greek manuscripts? I’m so tired of learning all the things that have been added and taken out of my Bible. Why can’t I just have a Bible from someone who has no preconceived views? UGH!
Next: Here are the scriptures that stop me from completely throwing out the Trinity view. Joh 1:3 through him all things were made & Heb 1:2 …by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe – Gen 1 In the beginning God created… So if God created all these things but the first two scriptures say Jesus created these things, it leaves me confused again. I just want the truth.
Last but not least, I do not know where you got this below—THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD. That’s not what I read. And I don’t follow your point you are trying to make. The rest of the site is very informative.

Now let’s allow the risen Christ Himself to reveal to us His relationship to His Father. After all, it is He, not John, who is the revelator. Notice Rev 3:14 – And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD:
There it is! Christ Himself is calling Himself “the beginning of the creation of God.”

Thank you,
L____

Hi L____,
Thank you for writing us.
To answer your first question, there is no perfect translation. God is not in the business, at this time, of saving all of mankind. When He does set His hand to do that, He will get it done. But for now He is in the business of blinding those who see:

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

One of the ways He is doing that is by giving us many translations with many mistakes. Translating the word ‘aion’ into ‘eternal, eternity, for ever and ever” etc. is but one such example. So do what I do. Download e- sword and look at the entry of every Greek word in question or every Hebrew word in question. When you do that, then the holy spirit will give you the meaning that was intended. There are no translations that can be trusted completely.
Now here is your first question concerning the trinity:

This one is easy because the scriptures reveal that Christ was given the name of “God”.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Who is the one giving Christ these incredible names?

Col 1:19 For it pleased [ the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;

No mention of a third person called ‘the holy ghost’. Here is what the Bible teaches concerning the invisible God head:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This is not speaking of the three parts of an egg, the three forms of water, or the three sexes we hear of today. Here is “the things that are made” referred to in scripture which specifically concern the “Godhead”

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [ is] the man; and the head of Christ is God.

“The head of Christ is God”. Now here is what we are told about that “God” and who He is in relationship to our Lord.

1Co 8:6 But to us [ there is but] one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and [ besides this “one God” there is also] one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

So the holy spirit is the spirit of “the Father, of whom are all things…” That is how Christ was conceived of His mother “of the holy spirit”.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Now you are going to have to get back with me on your second question. Here it is:

That is what it says. Here is the verse that says just that. I try never to say anything without the scripture to support every word.

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The point is that if “There is but one God, the Father, and all things of HIm”, then Christ must be the very first thing the Father created, and by Christ, calling Christ “the mighty God, the everlasting Father” Christ’s Father created the rest of creation.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [ they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

We were told in 1Co 8:6, that all things were “of the Father” and “by Christ”. Here we are being told the same thing, adding the fact that Christ is “the image of the invisible God”.
Why is this so? Is it because Christ is “co equal with God”? Absolutely not! There is only one reason Christ is all these things, and here is that reason, according to scripture:

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

I hope this all make this verse crystal clear to you.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You are in my prayers. I pray you are given to place the Word of God above what men say about that Word.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

]]> Who Is Yahweh? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/who-is-yahweh/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=who-is-yahweh Mon, 09 Aug 2010 06:00:00 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=5555

Hi Mike,

I have been dipping in and out of your website for a few years now as I continue my own bible study. It seems that you teach what I have found on my searching over the years (this has been a long haul via concordant, unitarian and trinitarian universalism websites). Could I please check that I have not misunderstood your teachings? Am I right in thinking that you teach?…
1. God is totally sovereign
2. The ultimate reconciliation of all
3. Christians are now under the new covenant and thus to follow the teachings of Jesus, especially the sermon on the mount now
4. Jesus is the son of God (i. e the son of Yahweh) but not God (i. e. Yahweh) himself.
5. God (Yahweh) is ` one alone` as Jesus says when quoting the shema, but Jesus is ` a god` (elohim) to us and pre- existed as the first creation of God (Yahweh)
I would be very grateful if you get a chance to reply.

Best wishes,
G____

Hi G____,

I am glad you have been looking at the site. The answer to most of your questions is, yes, except for the fourth and fifth ones about Yahweh.
Yes, I believe God is totally sovereign, to such an extent that it was He who caused you to write this e- mail.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God really is totally sovereign and really is “working all things after the counsel of His own will”.
Yes, I do believe in universal salvation, preceded by God’s fiery judgment upon all unrighteousness of men.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Yes, I do believe that we are now under the New Covenant or New Testament, and not the law of Moses. I believe that Christ, like Moses, was a true reformer.

Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 9:10  Which [ laws of Moses] stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

On these last two you say:

On these two you do not yet understand what the scriptures teach. Christ tells us that He came to reveal, for the first time, the Father. Yahweh is not the Father. Yahweh is ‘I Am’ and ‘I Am’ is Christ.
Christ made this plain and simple statement:

Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

‘You have not at any time heard His voice nor seen His shape.’ Abraham both saw and heard Yahweh. Moses saw and heard Yahweh, as did others in the Old Testament, because Yahweh is Christ, and Christ was the God of the Old Testament. Israel simply was not aware of that fact. They actually thought that Abraham had talked with the Father and that Moses had heard His voice, and had seen His “hinder parts”.

Exo 3:4  And when the LORD [ Yahweh] saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5  And he [ Yahweh] said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest [ is] holy ground.
Exo 3:6  Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Christ was “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but neither Moses nor Israel was aware of that Truth. They actually thought they were talking with and seeing God. “Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.” And that was wise because while men did see Christ’s glory, no man can look on Christ’s face in His glory and live.

Exo 33:18  And he [ Moses] said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19  And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20  And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21  And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22  And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Compare those words, with these words of our Lord:

Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

I have already written about this, so I hope you do not mind reading this link:
http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ Did_ God_ The_ Father_ Ever_ Speak_ To_ The_ Disciples. php
Please read that letter, and if you still have questions about this subject then get back to me.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike>

]]> Does Calling Christ The Lord Prove A Trinity? https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/does-calling-christ-the-lord-prove-a-trinity/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=does-calling-christ-the-lord-prove-a-trinity Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:00:01 +0000 http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/?p=2372

Hello Mike,

This is something that no matter how hard I try, I can’t seem to come up with an answer so I thought you could help me. It’s regarding 1Co 8:6 which says:

But to us, there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Now I’ve used this scripture to tell my friends who believe in the “trinity” that there is a distinct difference of the function of God and that of Christ, in that OF whom are all things refers to God, and BY whom are all things refer to Christ. But my question about this came when I read Rom 11:33-36

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Now, I tried to conclude that this is speaking of God, as Paul outlined in the first sentence of verse 33, but when he then switches it to “Lord” in verse 34, this make me thing that he is talking about Christ, because referring back to 1Co 8:6, he is referring to Christ as the Lord, as he does many other times in the openings of his epistles. So it’s hard for me to see that Paul is not saying that OF the Lord Jesus Christ are all things in Rom 11:36. This I believe gives ammunition to the “trinity” supporters that it can indeed be said that OF whom all things refer to Christ, as it does the Father in 1Co 8:6.

Please help if you can!
D____

Hi D____,

Thank you for your questions concerning 1Co 8:6 and Rom 11:33-36. You are wondering how 1Co 8:6 can say that “all things are of the Father,” and then say in Rom 11:36 that “all things are of the Lord.”

1Co 8:6  But to us [ there is but] one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

I will explain that to you, and I feel surely you will understand clearly, but do not expect a trinitarian whose eyes are blinded to the words of 1Co 8:6 or Rev 3:14 to be capable of understanding spiritual matters.

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

First of all I want you to notice that 1Co 8:6 tells us that we are “in Him (the Father), “by Christ.”

1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Since we are ‘in’ the Father ‘by’ Christ, is it therefore impossible for us to be “in Christ… by the Father?” Or could it be scripturally possible that we could be “in” and “by” both the Father and the Son? There can be no doubt from the scriptures that if we are “in” Christ, then we are also “in” the Father. Therefore we are at the same time both “in the Son and in the Father.”

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Joh 14:10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
1Jn 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

But is not Christ also “by” the Father? Of course He is, and since we are “in Christ,” we too, are both “of” and “by” the Father.
So the answer to this dilemma is that God’s word is a book of addition. It is not a book of subtraction. It is not ever to be pitted one verse against another. Each verse of His Word reveals more of who He is. We are specifically told, for example, that God is love.

1Jn 4:8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

We are told that God is light.

Jas 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Therefore when the scriptures say that “every good and perfect gift is from above and comes down from the Father of lights,” no where in that verse does it say that bad gifts and darkness are not also from the same God. So when we read in His Word that He also creates darkness and evil, we must be careful not to say that the scriptures contradict themselves.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So the truth of the scriptures is that the “God, the Father, of whom are all things,” is the Creator of “all things,” good and “wicked.”

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

There is no contradiction at all in being told that God is the creator of light and darkness or of good and evil. In the same way, there is no contradiction between saying that “all things are of God,” and because “everything the Father has He has given to me,” therefore simply because “it pleased the Father,” it can also be said that “of Him [ Christ], through Him, and to Him, are all things.”

Col 1:12  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15  Who [ Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16  For by [ Greek, ‘en,’ in] him [ Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by [ Greek, ‘dia,‘ through] him, and for [ Greek, ‘ eis’ to, or into] him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by [ Greek, ‘en,’ in] him all things consist.
Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in [ Greek ‘en,’ in] him should all fulness dwell;

The word translated ‘by’ in the first part of verse 16 is the Greek word ‘en’ meaning ‘in.’ The second time we see the English word ‘by’ in verse 16, it is the Greek word ‘dia’ meaning ‘through.’ The verse ends by telling us that all things God the Father does, He does them “for Him”. This time the word translated “for” tells us that God is doing all things “for Him,” for Christ, by using the Greek word ‘eis,’ which means ‘to or into.’
So Christ is the Father’s crucible, of, through, by, to and for whom all the Father is doing is accomplished.

Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by [ Greek, ‘en,’ in] him all things consist.

If the Father has decided that “all things consist in Christ”, then it follows that it is Christ “of whom are all things.”
But this is only true in the same sense that Joseph was the almighty ruler of Egypt. Joseph was almighty in everything except the throne.

Gen 41:39  And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, [ there is] none so discreet and wise as thou [ art]:
Gen 41:40  Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

So also is Christ said to be the “the everlasting Father, and the Almighty of whom are all things.”

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

It is this same “Son” who is said to have died and is now alive who is, who was and who is to come, who is also called “the Almighty.”

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

On the day of Pentecost, Peter informs us that God has now made Jesus “both Lord and Christ.”

Act 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

I hope this helps you to see that Christ is “both Lord and Christ,” and that the “Lord” of Rom 11:34-36 is indeed Christ, in whom “all things consist.” I hope you can see how this is all so for this one reason; “It pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness of the godhead dwell,” even to the extent that it can be said of our “Lord” that “of Him, through Him, and to Him, are all things,” yet all “subject unto the Father.”

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him [ Christ], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [ the Father] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God the Father, through Christ, made man in His image and after His likeness so that we might understand the godhead.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

“The image of God” is “male and female”. As I have said before, this was done so we could understand the godhead:

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

It is the very “Godhead” that is being discussed here, and we are plainly told that “the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.”

1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

There is nothing in scripture that is any clearer than how God is making man in His image and likeness to show us what is the very Godhead. “Male and female made He them.” Just as Christ is called in Isa 9:6 the everlasting Father and we are both Christ’s sons and His bride, so too, is Christ both His father’s son and yet He submits Himself to God the Father as a wife submits to her husband.
The false doctrine of a triune Godhead, lends itself to the false doctrine which says that homosexuality, which is condemned throughout scripture, is natural and good.

Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in [ their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

This doctrine has so taken hold that many churches have discarded these words of scripture, and are now ordaining out- of- the- closet homosexuals, male and female, to the priesthood and to the ministry. But God did not make Adam, Eve and Steve. He made man in His image, and in so doing, He made Adam and Eve male and female, and this is what displays for us “His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.”

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

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