Hi Mike,

Today I asked my pastor question after question about the “living forever” doctrine and didn’t back down. Anyway, he said he is going to sit down with me to explain it, but he didn’t make sense. He said the fullness is now, but there is consummation fullness later on!

I felt that doesn’t make sense! Anyway, I had a dream last night, and I am trying to understand the symbols.

Who is the Beast in Revelation?

Who is The Woman riding the beast in Revelation?

Whenever you have time if you could help me that would be great! Talk to you soon!

J____

Hi J___,

Thank you for your questions. I hope you find the answers to be edifying and that they strengthen you to “do the things [ Christ] says” (Luk 6:46). You asked who the beast is, and who is the woman riding the beast? Here are a couple of the verses you allude to in your questions:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The answer is that you and I are the beast, simply because the scriptures tell us that 666 “is the number of mankind”, and that “men… themselves are beasts”

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

So when we read of the beast blaspheming God, we know that is speaking of us disobeying God’s commandments and doing what we want to do in spite of what His word tells us to do and in spite of the example He set for us to follow.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

We are told that our “bodies are the temple of God”, so when we are told that the man of sin sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God, we know that this is that same beastly flesh of Adam which by nature sits in the temple of God, doing what he wants to do and defies Christ to dethrone him, saying “Who can make war with the beast?”

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea [ the flesh of all mankind], having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw [“the first man Adam” in all mankind] was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death [ our “first love” which we lose, Rev 2:4]; and his deadly wound was healed [ by attending the churches and religions of the great harlot]: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies [ false doctrines like fulness now]; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God [ by denying the truth of Eph 1:13-14], to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle [ those who are faithful to His doctrines], and them that dwell in heaven [ same people].

Who is the harlot that rides this beast? What else is this beast called? What are the waters on which she sits? The answer is right here is the verses to which you allude:

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: [ verse three tells you these waters are the beast within all men. Verse 15 reaffirms this]
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. [ all of mankind]

So this “great whore” in your particular case would be the church you are attending, whose minister is teaching the false doctrines of this “great whore”. She is a whore because she actually sees nothing wrong with consorting with another ‘man’ while claiming to be the bride of Christ in associating herself with the doctrines of men other than her spiritual husband who she claims is Christ.

Isa 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread [ our own doctrines], and wear our own apparel [ our own “filthy rags… many wonderful works in thy name” righteousness]: only let us be called by thy name [Luk 6:46], to take away our reproach.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? [ Things like “Come out of her My people”]

She is so very beautiful, and she is full of good works, and thereby seduces “the whole world”, and this is what everyone who has fallen for her and her doctrines will do:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, [ the “many waters” on which this harlot sits, and who she continues to dominate] have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The answer is, yes they did prophesy false doctrines like ‘fullness now’ in His name, and in His name they cast out demons [ they came behind in no gift of the spirit – 1Co 1:7], and in His name they have done many wonderful works and they have performed miracles in His name. That is why it is called “strong delusion”. I have shown you that it is God who deceives the ministers of this great harlot which dominates all flesh, and it is He who gives her ministers the power to perform miracles in the sight of the beast within us.

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

So we are each the beast, and we are the image of the beast, and we are dominated by this great harlot in whom all these miracles take place to “deceive them that dwell on the earth”. But take heed of this warning from God, Himself:

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze 14:10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

I pray that all these verses of scripture will help you, through Christ, to “make war with the beast” and to “come out of” the great whore who rides upon the beast who, by being “the first man Adam”, is naturally within all of us.

Your brother in your struggles,

Mike >

Dear Mike,

I just wanted to make a comment and ask you if my thinking is correct and that you might, God willing, either expound or correct.
You say quote, ” I cannot tell you how much it means to me to know that you really are praying for me.”
I think I might know how much it means to you that you are in my prayer. Correct me if I am wrong please.
For me, being in the prayers of the brethren is where we are made manifest and present to our Dear Loving Lord and Savior. THIS, is for me, the invisible place, separate to all carnality and worldliness, wherein the Family of the Lord and the Kingdom are made spiritually manifest as in the manifestation of the Sons of God. It is as a fulfillment and expectation that is coming true and the dawning in my heart of the manifestation of the Sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

No longer being a “creature” but a member in the family of God, I am given to see the significance of being in the prayers of the brethren and likewise holding the brethren in my prayer. I am aware of the fact that is told to me by Paul.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

So, Mike, consequentially, it means a lot to me to have you present in my prayers… but more that you have me in yours!
If this thinking is radical or twisted or incorrect, please, I would pray that you edify me accordingly..
I am very blessed to be in your prayers.

Blessings to you,
D____

Good morning D____,

Thank you for sending me your thoughts and for asking for my discernment concerning those thoughts. I agree with you. We are “in Christ” (Act 17:28), and Christ is “in us” (Col 1:27) if indeed He is there.
What I have had to fight is what the apostle Paul fought, and that is the mixing of the consummation with the present situation of being “sealed with the holy spirit of promise… the earnest of the spirit [ down payment] until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also [ trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So we are “resurrected with Christ… in earnest” at this time, and even though we are also “resurrected with him in newness of life”, and even though “Now are we the sons of God”, we still cannot say “the resurrection is already past”. It is not past, and saying it is past “overthrows the faith of some”.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

We are “sealed with the holy spirit of promise” and “God knows them that… have this seal”. “We are saved by hope… but why does a man hope for that he already has?”

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit [ of promise], even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body “the purchased possession” Eph 1:14].
Rom 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

So yes, we are one with Christ already. Yes, “Now are we the sons of God”, but everything we have now, being one with Christ, being buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him in newness of life is only in earnest and not in fullness. So be very careful to avoid the ‘fullness now’ false doctrine which sometimes dominates many Christian fellowships.
I hope you find this edifying. It is intended to encourage you in your walk. I certainly believe that all you want is to know what is the mind of Christ and His Father because “this is life eternal”.

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I just read the recent email post on fullness now – lying with the beast. Very timely for me. A couple weeks ago I taught to a small group on the meaning of unclothed, and it lead to a discussion on Christ coming to us now (while in the flesh) and what that means and the future resurrection and the redemption of the purchased possession. Some were having difficulties with reconciling it to the “fullness now” doctrine they were taught and believed, so I have another opportunity tonight to continue on that subject and will reference some of what you shared in this post.
Thanks again and be blessed.
M____

Good Morning, M____,

I am glad that you read and was edified by the e- mail post on Fullness Now – Lying With The Beast.
Now let’s consider your question about “being clothed.” Here are those verses you quoted. I have added verse ten because it helps to clarify what Paul has in mind. I will comment between each verse.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Paul is contrasting “this… earthly house,” this temporary clay tabernacle, with the “building of God” we have promised us at the resurrection.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

At this point, while still in this “earthen vessel,” we “groan together” with all the rest of creation, simply because as long as we are in this “sinful flesh” we will be constantly striving against our flesh by virtue of the “earnest of the spirit” we have been given while still in this flesh. I will indent farther the verses that bring this out:

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure [ Christ in us, verse six] in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. [ I hadn’t noticed this is the previous chapter of this same epistle]
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

‘Naked’ is Biblespeak for “shapen in iniquity conceived in sin.” But Paul is not speaking of nakedness in the flesh only. He is speaking of nakedness at resurrection. Since there are no ‘naked’ people at the first resurrection, Paul is, of necessity speaking of the second resurrection. What he is saying is that he is striving to be in that blessed and holy first resurrection:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

This is the same ‘earnest of the spirit’ Paul speaks of in Ephesians one:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. [ That purchased possession, is that blessed and holy first resurrection to a spiritual body which is being purified, and judged, at this time.]
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The answer to Peter’s question, “What shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” is that they will be “raised a spiritual body” with “terrestrial glory,” yet in dire need of “being clothed.”

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked [ at the resurrection of the dead]

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: [ This is not primarily a physical statement. Those who leave this flesh while still having “enmity against God,” while still of a carnal terrestrial mind, are raised with that “terrestrial glory… unclothed… { spiritually} naked”]
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Paul is not saying that he does not have Christ within. He is not denying that he has been “sealed with the holy spirit of promise.” What he is saying is that “whist we are at home in this [ physical] body” we have not yet been given, “the redemption of the purchased possession.” We have at this time and in this clay body, the holy spirit as a down payment of “the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Co 5:8 We are confident, [ I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present [ in “the body” of flesh] or absent [ from the body of flesh, in the grave, awaiting resurrection “and being present with the Lord”], we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all [ those being judged now, who will be in that “blessed and holy first resurrection,” as well as those who will be judged as carnal minded spirits with terrestrial glory] appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his [ physical] body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

“The end of them that obey not the gospel” of whom Peter inquires, is to be judged later at the “great white throne…” judgment, raised up, “unclothed,” yet in “terrestrial glory.” It was all figuratively “written in thy book” for each person who was ever born of woman, and it was all written “When as yet there was none of them.” And it is out of all of these “books” that the second resurrection, white throne judgment is made and account is given:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened [ of Psa 139:16]: and another book was opened, which is the book of life [“the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ]: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [ first resurrection] is one, and the glory of the terrestrial [ second resurrection] is another.

The “glory of the terrestrial… has no glory at all by reason of that which excels.”

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [ second resurrection, terrestrial glory] be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness [ first resurrection] exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

No, I am not saying that 2Co 3:9-10 is speaking of the first and second resurrections, but what I am saying is that the principle of the glory of the first has no glory by reason of the glory that excels” is just as relevant to the resurrections at it is to the two covenants. The order is reversed, but the principle remains the same. Those who are blessed to be in that first resurrection are given heavenly glory, which makes the reflected glory of the earth, by comparison to “have no glory,” but rather to be in need of purification by either many or few stripes. Here again is the scriptural rule which governs all judgment:

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Paul, like Christ, is consumed with “the things of the spirit.” This physical body is merely a vessel, at this time, for the workings of the spirit. Being absent from this physical body, and being present with Christ, at the resurrection, is better for each of us. But for the sake of those to whom we minister, it is, as you so rightly note, better for them. Either way we must be clothed with Christ and not with the things of the flesh. If not we will be found to be “unclothed” at the second resurrection. But while we are still in a physical body we are “clothed” with this physical body, and “absent from Christ,” in the sense of not yet receiving the purchased possession, which is our spiritual body, at the resurrection of the dead.
I hope this helps you to see that Paul, in these verses, is dealing with both the physical and with the spiritual meaning of “being clothed.” That is why I included verse 10. Verse ten makes it clear that Paul is dealing with both those who are clothed with Christ in the resurrection and those who are not.

2Co 5:10 For we must all [ those being judged now, who will be in that “blessed and holy first resurrection,” as well as those who will be judged as carnal minded spirits with terrestrial glory] appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his [ physical] body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Paul is willing to be unclothed of his body of flesh, but he looks forward to being clothed with his spiritual body at the resurrection.
I will close by quoting a couple of verses in this very same chapter which I pray will give you more clarity on this subject of “being clothed.”

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The “he is a new creature” is true “in earnest, until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [ trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

These truths are in God’s Word for all to see but they truly are encoded as “the things of the spirit” and are intended to be understood only by the “few… chosen” while being considered as “foolishness,” by the “many called” masses of orthodox Christianity:

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [ even] the hidden [ wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this [ orthodox Christian] world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit o f God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your brother in the Christ,
Mike

Mike
After all has been settled in my mind about the Holy Spirit and being born again and how it all ties together, Lev. 18:23 came to mind. “Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [ is] confusion.”
God does not impart to us the Holy Spirit while we are still in the beast stage. Just had to share that with you. R___

Thank you R____,
That is rather conclusive if you can see it. All that is being done at this time is being done in a vessel of clay that cannot ever under any circumstance, inherit the kingdom of God. So all the statements about being born again, being the firstfruits of the spirit, receiving the spirit and being begotten of the spirit are all true only in down payment, not in actual possession of the inheritance. If it were otherwise then there would be no need for hope or faith. And we are saved by hope and faith:

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

And faith is the assurance of things not seen, things for which we are still hoping.

Heb 11:1  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

You see how easy it is to get off on one point and be derailed in several other points. That is why the trinity is so very important to all of orthodoxy. If that tree called the trinity ever fell, then the entire orthodox Christian doctrinal structure of a triune man with an immortal soul, which goes to hell at death, would fall with it. There would be no rich man in hell, no baptism for the dead, no purgatory, no spirits in prison and no thief in paradise, or heaven to go to and look down on all of that. It is the trinity that holds all of that together.
And in like manner, it is this ‘fullness now’ doctrine that has us already born again, with all of the abilities of being in a spiritual body, being neither male nor female, having no sense of structure, no head and no body, no need for the written word and on and on; the confusion is endless. But this is the Truth straight from the mouth of our Lord and in complete accord with all of His apostles:

Joh 3:6  “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8  “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (NASB)

So when I become invisible to the natural eye that is when I will no longer be enjoying all of these promises in faith and in hope. That will be when I am in possession of the inheritance and not just possessing all of these things through “the holy spirit of promise.” We are standing in the land of promise, not in the land of possession. Yes, I am fully aware that it is the “promised land,” But I am also aware that it is we who now possess “all the promises” so they must still be future:

2Co 1:20  For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
2Co 7:1  Having therefore these promises [ Gentile Corinthians], dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Which promises? “All the promises.” They certainly were never realized by anyone in the Old Testament.

Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

We too, are “strangers and pilgrims on the earth” living in faith and hope. But there is one thing that separates God’s elect from all the Old Testament types of God’s elect and from all other false elect. Here is what marks God’s elect:

1Co 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

And how would the holy spirit have us to see all that we possess in promise at this time. It is in the previous verse:

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

How anyone can say that we are in the fullness of the possession at this time and read about the need now for faith and hope and seeing through a glass darkly, etc. would seem almost incredible, except for the fact that that is what I myself was teaching only yesterday.
Thank you for this exchange. God does not give his spirit to a beast. What He does give that beast is the promise, “the holy spirit of promise,” that it will not always remain a beast.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So I would not say that “God does not impart His spirit to us…,” but I would say it is given only in earnest, in promise, while we are yet in this vessel of clay called flesh, or the beast. We are “now sons of God,” but not in the sense that we will be sons of God:

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

That doesn’t sound like ‘fullness now’ to me. It sounds as if God’s spirit is working within us to destroy and dethrone that beast within, so that when we shed this beastly body we can step into a spiritual body which has already taken on the mind of Christ through spiritually dying to that fleshly, beastly body.
It is all contradictory to the natural man to say “I am crucified… nevertheless I live.” “I am blind… so I see.” “I have lost my life… so I have found it,” etc. But in the spirit it simply hides the truth from the natural man. ‘We are beasts, but we are dying to that beast and living to the spirit’ in earnest or down payment of the spirit.
It is always good to seek out the mind of God with you.
Mike

How is it going?

1. What does it mean for you to be born again?

2. When is a person born again?

3. Does whoever is born of the Spirit (the new creature born of God) die?

Joh 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God–
:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Joh 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
:4 How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Joh 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit

This is all accomplished right now, Adolfo, but it is only in down payment form:

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace [ be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [ from] the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3 Blessed [ be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [ places] in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

And what has He made known to us? Has He made us to know that we are immortal spirits, or has He made us to know that this will be accomplished
“in the fulness of times?”

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest [ Greek- down payment] of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

And when are we told we receive “the redemption of the purchased possession?”

Here it is:

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [ is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

If there is no resurrection then “they which have fallen asleep in Christ are perished.”

The resurrection is the time of “the redemption of the purchased possession.”

I hope this is of some help, Adolfo.

Mike