“The Spiritual Significance of Earthquakes”

Whose Voice then Shook the Earth

[Study Aired Dec 31, 2024]

Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:26-29)

Scripture shows that earthquakes reveal both God’s presence and His work within us. As Christ taught us, “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:20), therefore these shakings have both an outward and inward application. This dual nature is first seen at Mount Sinai:

And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. (Exodus 19:18)

God demonstrates how His presence brings shaking when He revealed Himself to Elijah:

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12)

An earthquake during King Uzziah’s reign was so significant that it served as a historical marker:

The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake. (Amos 1:1)

This earthquake was remembered generations later:

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zechariah 14:5)

These physical earthquakes point to how God shakes and removes false doctrines. This is shown when God’s temple is opened in heaven:

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

This earthquake comes during the time of God’s two witnesses who prophesy against false doctrines:

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Revelation 11:3)

The result of their testimony brings a great shaking:

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Revelation 11:13)

This pattern of God’s presence shaking foundations is confirmed in the Psalms:

Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. (Psalm 18:7)

In the New Testament, we see these shakings marking pivotal moments of God’s work. At Christ’s death:

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. (Matthew 27:51)

This earthquake signified the shaking of the old covenant system. At His resurrection:

And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. (Matthew 28:2)

When Paul and Silas were imprisoned, an earthquake led to spiritual conversion:

And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone’s bands were loosed. And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas… and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16:26-30)

The pattern of shaking is mentioned earlier in Revelation. With the opening of the sixth seal:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. (Revelation 6:12)

Under the seventh seal:

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (Revelation 8:5)

These earthquakes symbolize God’s judgments and the shaking of all Babylonian doctrine foundations. The prophet Haggai foresaw this universal shaking:

For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come. (Haggai 2:6-7)

The writer of Hebrews reveals the ultimate purpose of this shaking:

And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. (Hebrews 12:27)

Just as earthquakes break down old structures, God’s word breaks down our old nature:

Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (Jeremiah 23:29)

Through these shakings, we learn to anchor ourselves in what cannot be moved:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil. (Hebrews 6:19)

Just as earthquakes disturb the natural foundations, spiritual battles establish what cannot be shaken:

Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. (Psalm 46:2-3)

These shakings reveal who truly sits on the throne of our hearts:

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. (Jeremiah 10:10)

The process connects directly to God’s sovereignty:

The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. (Psalm 97:1-4)

Through every spiritual shaking, God is fulfilling His word:

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2 Peter 3:12-13)

These shakings are not for our destruction but for bringing us to a contrite and trembling spirit:

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and trembling spirit, and that trembleth at my word. (Isaiah 66:2)

Let us therefore embrace these spiritual earthquakes, knowing they serve to establish Christ’s kingdom within us:

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. (Hebrews 8:10)

Next week, Lord willing, we will examine North, South, East and West.

Act 15:1-21  The Apostles and Elders Came Together to Consider this Matter

[Study Aired May 14, 2023]

Act 15:1  And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2  When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3  And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4  And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6  And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11  But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12  Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13  And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14  Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18  Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19  Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20  But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21  For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

We will finish this chapter next week and stop here for today.

We have finally come to Acts 15. This is the chapter which reveals how the apostles set us an example of how we are to deal with doctrinal differences which do arise within the body of Christ. Remember what we have been told:

1Co 11:18  For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Before we examine how these heretical differences are to be dealt with, let’s first examine why the Lord sends us “divisions among you” and doctrinal differences. It is not what we might think:

1Co 11:19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

The Lord says that there must be heresies among us… “that they which are approved may be made manifest.” We would just naturally think the Lord would send heresies among us for the purpose of revealing what is the truth of the matter. Indeed, the Lord does show us what is the truth is, but that is apparently secondary to ‘manifesting… they which are approved among [us].’ Notice what Paul, in the previous verse, tells us what heresies produce when they are brought into our fellowship:

1Co 11:18  For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

Heresies divide us, and the fact that there are 40,000 plus Christian denominations, each one formed generally over doctrinal differences, belies and reveals the great whore and all her daughter churches.

This is the mind of Christ as it concerns the unity of His body:

1Co 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11  For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16  And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Paul tells us:

2Ti 1:13  Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 1:14  That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
2Ti 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

“All they which are in Asia” includes “the seven churches of Asia” to whom the book of Revelation is addressed:

Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

The number ‘seven’ signifies that the whole church had already apostatized before the death of most of the apostles. The apostasy was so strong that Diotrephes was “casting…out of the church” the people whom the apostle John had sent to minister to them:

3Jn 1:9  I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10  Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Diotrephes was not interested in ‘being persuaded by his leaders and deferring to them’ as we are commanded of the holy spirit, not of any man:

Heb 13:17 Be persuaded by your leaders, and be deferring to them, for they are vigilant for the sake of your souls, as having to render an account, that they may be doing this with joy, and not with groaning, for this is disadvantageous for you.

Under the inspiration of the holy spirit, Paul told us “there must be heresies among you that those who are approved might be made manifest” (1Co 11:19). Let 1 Corinthians 11:19 sink into your spirit, as we examine this 15^th chapter, which demonstrates for us how the apostles dealt with the heresy which teaches that the Gentiles must be physically circumcised before they can receive salvation.

Heresies are listed as one of the works of the flesh which will rob us of our crown and of inheriting the kingdom of God:

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev 3:11  Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Christ Himself tells us that false prophets with their false doctrines and heresies will periodically be found among the Lord’s “very elect”:

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

The Lord’s people all “come out of [Babylon]” (Rev 18:4), and therefore we were all the victims of the “damnable heresies” of all these “false prophets” at the time appointed for each of us. These ‘damnable heresies” are also called “strong delusion”:

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned [G2919: ‘krino’, judged] who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The Greek word translated as ‘damned’ here is ‘krino’. It appears 117 times in the Greek, and this is the only time this word is mistranslated as ‘damned’.  Those who reject the truth in this present time will be judged in “the resurrection of judgment” (Joh 5:29), which is the lake of fire, which is the second death (Rev 20:14).

Notice how similar these words here in 2 Thessalonians 2 are to the words of Christ Himself:

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

We will now begin reading the story of how the apostles set us an example of how to avoid being divided against Christ and His doctrines. If we follow their example, we will ‘all speak the same thing, and have no divisions among us and we will remain perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment’ concerning what constitutes His doctrines.

1Co 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Here in this 15^th chapter of Acts the apostles are confronted with the first recorded false doctrine which attempted to divide the Lord’s flock:

Act 15:1  And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2  When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

The apostle Peter, the apostle the holy spirit had chosen to be the first, who through miraculous circumstances, was privileged to take the gospel to the Gentiles in the house of the Roman centurion, Cornelius, just happened to be visiting the church at Antioch at the same time that Paul and Barnabas returned to Antioch from their first missionary journey. This is just over two years after Peter had visited the house of Cornelius. We know this is so because Barnabas was sent to Antioch immediately after the Gentiles had received the holy spirit when Peter was still speaking in Cornelius’s house, and as soon as Barnabas had seen all the holy spirit was doing in Antioch, he went to Tarsus to get Saul to help minister to all the synagogues in Antioch:

Act 11:25  Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
Act 11:26  And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

After ministering “a whole year” in Syrian Antioch, Barnabas and Saul are sent to Jerusalem at the time of the Passover to present a gift from the churches in Antioch to the drought-stricken saints in Jerusalem. When Barnabas and Saul returned to Antioch from Jerusalem the holy spirit immediately sent Barnabas and Saul on an evangelical mission which occupied another year at the most. Therefore, Peter and Barnabas separating themselves from the Gentiles in Antioch occurred just a very few years after the holy spirit told Peter to call no man common or unclean.  Paul’s rebuking of Peter and Barnabas happened shortly after Paul and Barnabas had returned to Syrian Antioch after their first missionary journey:

Gal 2:11  But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12  For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13  And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Peter then returned to Jerusalem and is there at Jerusalem when the church at Antioch sent Barnabas and Paul up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question of whether the Gentiles must be physically circumcised to be saved:

Act 15:3  And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4  And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6  And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Before we continue our narrative, let’s remember just how contentious this doctrine was which taught that the Gentiles must be physically circumcised to be converted or they could not be saved. The contention began in Antioch. I will repeat:

Act 15:1  And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2  When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem  unto the apostles and elders about this question.

This same contentious spirit was still alive and well among “they of the circumcision” when they got up to Jerusalem:

Act 15:4  And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6  And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

What are we to do when there is a heresy among us? Heresies are essential to our walk “to have our senses exercised to know good and evil” as well as to reveal who among us is approved of God:

1Co 11:18  For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Those words are expressing the mind of God in this matter, and so are these words:

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Any of us who think we do not need a teacher “are become such as have need of milk and not of strong meat” simply because you simply have not yet had your “senses exercised to know both good and evil”.

Christ’s apostles are mature enough to acknowledge that they do need teachers, and they are humble enough to seek the counsel of all the apostles and elders to settle this question and to root out the heresy which is attempting to divide the church. Notice that we are twice told that this question was brought before “the apostles and elders” to consider and to deliver a decision. As clearly as it can be stated “the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.” This was not something the whole church discussed and considered as we once thought.

We had misread the Lord’s words “tell it to the church” and made it say, “Take it to the church.” That was a grievous error for which all our leaders at that time have repented.

Here is what the scriptures actually teach:

Mat 18:15  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

The church did not ‘come together for to consider of this matter.’ In fact this is what the church did:

Act 15:12  Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

The consensus of the apostles and elders was that the doctrine which held that the Gentiles must be physically circumcised to be saved was spurious heresy. However, it was also agreed that the Jews must continue to be circumcised and to live by the law of Moses.

Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11  But we [Peter, Paul and Barnabas] believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we [physical Jews] shall be saved, even as they [the believing Gentiles].
Act 15:12  Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Why would the church at Antioch “determine that Paul and Barnabas and certain other of them should go… to the apostles and elders about this question?” (vs 2)

That determination was made because the leaders of the church in Antioch knew what both Christ and the Old Testament instruct us to do when legitimate doctrinal questions arise within the body of Christ. We have already quoted Matthew 18:15-17, where Christ instructs us how we are to deal with being offended by a brother. Nothing is more offensive to a brother than to “bring in damnable heresies.”  These words of Christ in Matthew 18:15-17 are simply the New Testament version of these words from the Old Testament:

Pro 11:14  Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Pro 15:22  Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.

Pro 24:6  For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.

The only Biblical way to wage spiritual warfare is “in the multitude of counselors.” The only Biblical way to establish purposes and doctrine is with “a multitude of counselors.” The only Biblical way to stay safe in the Lord is to obey His commandment to seek “a multitude of counselors” when deciding whose doctrine is Christ’s doctrine.

Now let’s all pay very close attention to how this Jerusalem conference played out. Peter, speaking for himself and Paul and Barnabas, had made their case by declaring their position:

Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11  But we [Peter, Paul and Barnabas] believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we [Jewish believers] shall be saved, even as they [Gentile believers, saved by grace through faith, Eph 2:8].

While there was one hundred percent consensus that the Gentiles need not be circumcised or keep the laws of Moses to be saved, none of the original twelve apostles, other than Peter, thought the Jews did not need to keep the law of Moses:

Act 15:13  And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14  Simeon [Peter] hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18  Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19  Wherefore my sentence [G2919, ‘krino’, judgment] is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20  But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21  For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

As we will see in our next study, even though the judgment of James and the other apostles and elders was that the Jews needed to remain under the law of Moses, Peter, Paul and Barnabas were “persuaded [by] and deferred to” the consensus of the elders that the Jews must continue living by the law of Moses even though they had just declared plainly that they (Peter, Paul, and Barnabas) believed that the Lord put “no difference” between Jews and Gentiles. In time it was revealed that the Lord was indeed ‘making of twain one new man’ and was taking down the middle wall of partition between the Jews and the Gentiles. That “middle wall of partition” was the very determination made at the Jerusalem conference expressed in a letter sent to the Gentiles which informed them that they need not keep the law, but the Jews must keep the law of Moses.

Eph 2:11  Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Lest we fail to understand that Paul was living under the law while teaching the Gentiles that they need do no such thing, the decision agreed upon at this conference is repeated for us in Acts 21, which takes place after Paul’s third missionary journey:

Act 21:18  And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19  And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20  And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: [of Moses]
Act 21:21  And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22  What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

If Paul had forsaken Moses during his past two journeys, then this was the perfect opportunity for him to speak up and say so. However, Paul had not forsaken the law of Moses and was himself living under it even as he was telling the Gentiles they need not to do so. Paul would die before being a hypocrite, so he had no problem with what James was asking him to do so that “all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law” [of Moses].

Act 21:23  Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24  Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25  As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Act 21:26  Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Paul wanted everyone to know, and the holy spirit wants us to know, that when Paul agreed with the conclusion of the Jerusalem conference, he lived his life by that decision of the apostles and elders.

Neither he nor Peter nor Barnabas took the attitude that “Me and Jesus got a good thing going, me and Jesus got it all worked out, me and Jesus got a good thing going, we don’t need anybody to tell us what it’s all about” – to quote a country song by Tom T. Hall, which expresses the divisive evil spirit which rules over many who claim that they know the Lord. The ‘Jesus’ they know is not the same Jesus Peter, Paul and Barnabas knew and loved and obeyed, and all those who subscribe to the ‘Lone Ranger’ doctrine of Tom T. Hall know “another Jesus”, and they are building their spiritual house upon the shifting sand of this earth and not upon the Rock that is Christ:

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47  Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49  But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

2Co 11:4  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

When Paul says, “Which is not another” it is obvious by what follows that he is telling us that those who are attempting to remove us from Him that called us into the grace of Christ unto another gospel will always tell us it is not another gospel, yet we are plainly told that they “would pervert the gospel of Christ.”

We have all been through the experience of being forced to discern what is and what is not the voice of the True Shepherd and what is “the gospel of Christ” versus what is a perversion of that gospel. In our next study we will learn how to choose our counselors and to know which counselors are the Lord’s counselors.

Here is some very good admonition from a very reliable source:

1Th 5:12  And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
1Th 5:13  And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
1Th 5:14  Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

Greetings Mike,

I read one of your articles on the topic: Born again. In it, you mentioned that we become born again when God in his sovereignty brings us to our knees via circumstances of life.

Where then is the place of preaching?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Cor 1:21)

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Rom 10:14)

Ybic,

M____

Hi M____,

Thank you for your question concerning the place of preaching in the maturing process of a child of God.

You say you read an article on the website which said we become born again when God in His sovereignty brings us to our knees via the circumstances of life. Then you ask me “Where is the place of preaching?” Then you quoted two scriptures:

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

The answer to your question is that preaching is just the first step in the process of our salvation. The original twelve disciples of Christ are our example of how we hear and accept the preaching of Christ, typified by the feast of the passover, long before we are converted and experience our own day of pentecost.

Christ was offered up for our sins after three and a half years of preaching the gospel to and with His original 12 disciples. During that time his twelve disciples heard the preaching of the kingdom of God, and they were even sent out to preach the gospel, yet the preaching of the gospel by itself did not convert them or those who heard their preaching.

Here is what they did during that three and a half years of both hearing and even preaching the gospel:

Mar 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

Later Christ sent out seventy by twos to preach the gospel of the kingdom:

Luk 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

The kingdom of God comes ‘near unto us’ when we first hear the gospel, but what is the spiritual condition of all of Christ’s disciples who first hear the gospel and actually believe on Christ? This was the spiritual condition of Peter after three and a half years of hearing the preaching of Christ Himself. Here are Christ’s words to Peter the very day of His apprehension of the Jews:

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Here is Peter three and a half years after hearing and even preaching the gospel, and we are told by our Lord Himself that Peter is not yet even converted. Do these words contradict the verses you quoted:

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

If we are “save[d]… by the foolishness of preaching” how can anyone say the humbling circumstances of life have anything to do with our conversion and eventual salvation? Is it not clear that Peter and the other apostles were not yet converted, even though they had heard the preaching of Christ for years?

But someone will contend that this is only because the holy spirit had not yet been given to the twelve apostles, and therefore those who accepted Christ after the day of Pentecost were saved as soon as they heard the preaching of the gospel and believed on Christ and repeated a ten second ‘sinner’s prayer’. But is that true? Here is what the apostle Paul informs us of our spiritual condition immediately after hearing and accepting the gospel. Notice what is said of us after we have been called to be saints, and after being sanctified and after we are told that we came behind in no spiritual gift.

Here is that statement right at the beginning of the first epistle to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Is it even possible to be ‘sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be a saint, have the grace of God given by Jesus Christ, have the testimony of Christ confirmed in us, come behind in no spiritual gift, and yet be an unconverted, carnal babe in Christ’? If hearing the preaching of the gospel is all that is needed to save us, then surely all these added blessings must surely prove us to be saved.

But what do the scripture reveal about these “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints”, Corinthians? The third chapter of this epistle tells us this of these very same Corinthian Christians:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

It is now obvious that there is such a thing as a “carnal… babe in Christ”, who is “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be [a] saint…given… the grace of God, have the testimony of Christ, and come behind in no gift [and still be a] yet carnal… babe in Christ”.

So “where then is the place of preaching?” It is plain that we are indeed saved by “the foolishness of preaching”, but is not that very preaching to include all of “the Word”? The answer is, yes, any true preacher who is sent by Christ to preach the gospel will “preach the Word”:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

It is “the Word” we are commanded to preach, which tells us that we enter the kingdom of God only “through much tribulations… so as by fire… [and through] suffer[ing] with [Christ].

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

That ‘fire’ which saves us is the same as the preaching by which we are saved, because both are “the Word”:

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

It is ‘the Word’ which tells us of all the fiery trials of life which will cause us to cry out for our salvation because it is “the Word” Who “makes [even our] wicked” man for Himself and who is “working all things after the counsel of His own will”:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I hope all these verses of scripture have served to demonstrate that God has given mankind an experience of evil to humble us and to bring us to see our need for a Savior through the foolishness of preaching the Word.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Your brother who, with you, must enter the kingdom of God “through much tribulation”:

Mike

Mike,

Reading in Malachi chapter four referring to the day of the Lord, we read that “Elijah” would turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. Dysfunctional families have become a staggering problem. Society is overall a reflection of the family. It is a composite of all that is transpiring in the family. And our leaders (the “fathers”) lead society in a manner reflective of their family of origin. The citizens(the “children”) respond accordingly. Somehow a sense of true family values has to be engendered in society. I don’t know precisely what the Lord has in mind. But a dialogue in society at large has to begin to focus on true family values. And that analogy applies to churches. Leaders have to nurture that family concept, rather than the arrogance that typifies so much of ‘churchianity.’ Pride is also an issue we all have to address: God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.
Again no judgments implied. Just observations.

In Christ,
A____

Hi A____,

You mention Mal 4 and turning the hearts of the children to the fathers and the hearts of the fathers to the children during “the day of the Lord”. This certainly is not the time that God is outwardly “turning the hearts of the children to the fathers” because Christ plainly tells us that at this time, He has given them eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear… the mysteries of the kingdom of God… lest He should heal and convert the multitudes who come to Him. That is all found in Mat 13, as I suspect you know.
But that is happening both physically and “in the spirit”, within God’s elect at this time, which ‘time’ is “the Lord’s day” or “the day of the Lord” of Rev 1.

Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

After the “little season” which immediately follows the millennium, and the worldwide deception of that time, God will, through a thing call a “lake of fire”, “turn the hearts of the children to the fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children”, and “all in Adam will be made alive”.
Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Addressing your Strong Delusion writing:

Out of Context. The next verse says this: “in order that they all may be judged WHO DID BELIEVE THE TRUTH, but took pleasure in wickedness.” 2Th 2:12.

E____

Hi E____,

Just a few scriptures for your consideration:

Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Pro 20:24 Man’s goings [ good or evil ] are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

And here is a scripture to back that scripture up:

Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye [ Joseph’s brothers] thought evil against me; but God meant it [ that very evil] unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

So it appears that those who “receive not the love of the Truth,” receive it not because “God sent them strong delusion… lest they should be converted…” (2Th 2:11 and Mat 13:

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Why do the seeing see, and why are the blind blinded?

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made [ by the maker] subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

What hope?:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

The fact that God gives them strong delusion because they receive not a love of the truth does not mean that their lack of love of the truth is not also the working of God in them, just as Joseph’s brothers’ evil was really intended by God to bring about good.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

All evil will eventuate in good by the working of God!

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy [ or hardens].

Read the article After The Counsel of His Own Will for further information.

Mike

Hi, Mike,

This is simply a straight forward question. Have you had a conversion just like the apostles did on the day of Pentecost, and I don’t mean cloven tongues of fire or a sound like a rushing mighty wind or speaking in other tongues, etc? Thanks.

Yours in Christ,
T____

Hi T____,

Thank you for your question. You ask if I have had the same experience that the apostles experienced on the day of Pentecost?
Yes, I certainly have. One day I was nothing more than a beast ruled by his passions and lusts, and the next day I realized that I would never again, Lord willing, go back to all that vomit. I was just as changed as the apostles who one day fled from and denied their Lord, and fifty days later were endowed with the power to be willing to go to prison and even die for their Lord.
The New Testament is just as full of types and shadows as the Old Testament. Christ taught in types and shadows which He called parables. The days of unleavened bread came fifty days prior to the day of Pentecost, as a shadow of the spiritual fact that our conversion takes seven times seven plus one. Pentecost is interpreted ‘count fifty’. Our conversion takes place only after we have “fallen seven times” and we come face to face with the undeniable fact that we can do nothing of ourselves but to deny and curse the name of our Lord. Jacob bowed himself before Esau seven times as a type and a shadow of how we all must acknowledge our own helplessness before our flesh. But just like Peter who already knew Christ, this acknowledgment of the power of his flesh over his life, was not given to Jacob until after he had wrestled all night long with Christ and had become a physical cripple. It was as a physical cripple that Jacob became a symbol of a spiritually strong man who had “prevailed with God”.
Eventually we come to see that not even our sins and submitting ourselves to Esau is of ourselves.

Gen 33:3  And he himself [ Jacob] passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.[ Esau]

No man yet has ever been truly converted until he, like Jacob, like King David, like Peter and like the apostle Paul, comes to realize that he is a complete slave to his own flesh and blood. Only after that acknowledgment can the miracle of conversion that took place on the day of Pentecost be worked within any of us.

Mat 26:69  Now Peter was sitting without in the court: and a maid came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus the Galilaean.
Mat 26:70  But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71  And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and saith unto them that were there, This man also was with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72  And again he denied with an oath, I know not the man.
Mat 26:73  And after a little while they that stood by came and said to Peter, Of a truth thou also art one of them; for thy speech maketh thee known.
Mat 26:74  Then began he to curse and to swear, I know not the man. And straightway the cock crew.
Mat 26:75  And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
Pro 24:16  For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.

As all the examples above prove, we are all “the wicked… overthrown by calamity.” We all “fall seven times”, meaning we come to see that we are of ourselves, a complete failure. We all “bow seven times” to our own flesh, and then in God’s sovereign mercy, we “rise again” as “a righteous man”.

Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [ how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

It was both a literal and a figurative sevens of days after denying and cursing that he did not know Christ, that Peter was given the mind and spirit of Christ, and he was then, for the first time, able to see and to say the things he saw and said on the day of Pentecost.
Have I had this experience? “Simply and straightforwardly” I can honestly say, emphatically yes, I certainly have. I first had a false Pentecostal experience with a false tongue, and many years later I was given a tongue, which speaks of the “hidden wisdom… in demonstration of the spirit and power” and a tongue which never “thinks above what is written”, just as Peter was given on the day of Pentecost.

1Co 2:4  And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5  That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6  Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdo m, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8  Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [ it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 4:6  And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [ of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Christ said that “His words were spirit and life.”

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth [ Greek, gives life]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

So verse 10 of 1Co 2 explains the meaning of “the demonstration of the spirit” in verse 4. Peter was quoting the written words of God in Act 2 on the day of Pentecost, and those who were given eyes to see and ears to hear received those words and began the process of conversion that had already been working in Peter and the other apostles.

Luk 22:31  And the Lord said, Simon, Simon [ Peter], behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Those for whom Christ prays “before His Father” will not fail. It is all His work, but we are still to admonish one another and “provoke one another unto love and to good works”.

Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Heb 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

I thank God that He is doing that very thing to me through brothers like you. Christ’s words are the tongues of fire that are resting on our lives, and they are also the rushing of His mighty spirit in our lives.
I hope this has answered your question about my ‘day of Pentecost’ experience. If not, then please let me know.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hello Mike,

I had emailed you a while back to tell you I was going to approach my pastor with all I was learning.  You emailed me back, in short and paraphrased, “Get ready to be under attack and rejected.”  Well, you were right. 

After meeting with my pastor and excited with what God was revealing to me, I left with him about 100 pages of articles.  He only read through 17 pages before I got a very angry, threatening letter back telling me what I am opening myself up to is what he believes is the movement in the last days that will deceive many and not to share this belief with anyone in our church because it goes against what leadership understands as truth. (This is funny, because I know the leadership better that he does because I’ve been here much longer than he has and know our elders would never react like this, but out of love, so I know he never brought it before them) In that quick to judge summary after reading 17 pages, he thinks it is Unitarianism and told me to pray because if I am wrong, I would be devastated later and ask me if I was angry yet at the end of the letter.   Chuckling in my spirit, in short, I wrote him back and said, “Am I angry, absolutely not; shocked might be a better word. 

In what I am learning, devastation is a good thing because it burns up the flesh and I would rather be devastated now than miss the mark in the end.  I have to follow what I sincerely believe God is revealing to me and this is not something that I just came up with recently, but answers to questions that have haunted me my whole life concerning the doctrines of men that do not reveal Good News.”
I was reluctant at first to share with him, but heard God tell me, “Share it with my son and he will receive it.” Anyway, the seed is planted and I am glad that he reacted so intensely because it shook his foundation. God’s timing and season will dawn in his future and I will continue to pray for God to open his eyes.
Again in short, I retired from leading worship for 16 years this last October. It has been very difficult because I realized that my identity was wrapped up in that position and was the main reason for remaining in that church; so I could sing and play for God corporately along with my Christian family. I am better now and look forward to what He has next in my life. All things in their season.
The above was just a snap- shot of what has happened since I last wrote. What prompted this email is I was listening to a worship song on Youtube that our worship team used to sing. This video is very much like the type worship I am used to, but only with 500 in the congregation. I have not found the sincerity in many, many, many, churches, (mostly hype) that I saw as this young lady (the composer) sang. It seemed to come from a heart that loves God. What made me think of y’all was, within the lyrics of the chorus, there is a line that says:
Holy, Holy, Holy
Is the Lord God Almighty
Who was, and is and is to come
Much love to you and Sandi.
S____

Hi S____,
It is good to hear from you. I remember you very well. Thanks for sharing this story with me.
Thanks also for that inspiring song. I do not say this in any way to belittle any of the sincere people at that service, but nevertheless it is by God’s own design that not one person in a thousand is aware of the meaning and significance of the fact Christ and His Words “are, were, and will be, and will never pass away.” Those words, like the words “Christ and Him crucified,” have one meaning to a babe in Christ and an entirely different meaning to a son who is maturing in Christ.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

It was a spiritual earthquake for me to realize that it was even possible that these words could be true for me, and at the same time I could be just like these Corinthians:

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [ to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [ am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

That was where I remained for the first nearly half century of my life. So too do we all for some time, when we first come to Christ.
Your minister may be “sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be a saint,” just like all of Christ’s apostles before the day of Pentecost. And just like all of Christ’s apostles, your minister and you and I, we may all “come behind in no gift” and still be “carnal babes in Christ.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

At this time Peter had been with Christ for 3 1/2 years, and was still not converted. At first we are all “carnal babes in Christ.” We all “Live by every word of this “two- edged sword.” The fact that we are given the good with the evil is what is meant by “a sharp two- edged sword,” and without the pain that comes with the evil we receive at the hand of the Lord, we would experience no spiritual growth.

1Co 3:21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22  Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23  And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.
Job 2:10  But he said unto her [ Job to his wife], Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

The “foolish women” are the “five foolish virgins” who are bereft of the spirit, which is the truth of God’s Word. “One of the foolish women” means one of the churches which, as your pastor demonstrates, “cannot be spoken to as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.” They are “carnal babes in Christ, still slaves to sin.”

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child [ Greek – nepios, an infant still on milk], differeth nothing from a servant [ Greek – ‘slave’ to his carnal mind, “yet carnal”], though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children [ nepios – spiritual, carnal infants], were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son [ huios – mature son], made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons [“Adoption of sons” is all translated from the one Greek word ‘huiothesia’].
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons [ huios] , God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son [ Huios] into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

What strong delusion has been given to all who would replace these words which distinguish an infant from an adult with a ten- second sinner’s prayer, which would dispense with the need for persecution and judgment on the house of God.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. ]

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

How well I remember another minister, for whom I had much respect at the time, preaching a sermon which exhorted us, as his congregates, to be thankful that we were living in a country and at such a time, that being persecuted, enduring tribulations and being “hated of all men” because of our faith was no longer a reality.
What a total blindness to the ‘is, was and will be’ character of the words of our Lord who taught both that His Words would never pass away and that evil men and seducers would wax worse and worse, not better and better.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

The people at that little conference you attended with us were from all over the United States and Canada, and in accord with your experience while surveying the group, I certainly do consider all who are given eyes to see what the spirit says to be clothed with the white linen of the saints. That is what God is saying to you and to us all.

Mat 5:20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees [ spiritual leaders], ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I think you know that I am not surprised at your experience with your minister. I would be shocked if it had happened any other way.
We are just now covering the seven churches of Rev 2 and 3. It will of no benefit to us to see these “seven angels” to whom this entire book is addressed as celestial beings with nothing at all in common with you and me. On the other hand, if we can just remember that we have been told that it is you and I who are expected to “read, hear and keep, the things written therein,” then we will know that those angels are you and me and all of our “fellow laborers,” and that all that is said to those seven angels of those seven churches is actually being spoken to “he that has an ear.”

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him [ the angel who had just shown John the judgment of the great harlot]. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he [ the angel who had shown John all these things] unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The “seven angels” whether they are “of the seven churches… blowing seven trumpets… or pouring out seven vials,” they are all our fellowservants and of our brothers;” they are all God’s elect, who are commanded to ” keep the things written therein, the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”

Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the church es.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Judgment is now on the house of God, and it is now on Babylon within the house of God. But your minister and all who cannot yet see the need to “keep the things written therein” are not at this time being judged and will not be “hated of all men” at this time.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

So, if the spirit sees fit to give you “eyes that see and ears which hear the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,” and you are made to see that we are “not to think above what is written,” but that “all that is written is ours,” then He will also give you the strength and the patience to “endure to the end.”

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [ to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [ of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

That is my prayer for you and for us all. God bless you as you share the Truth which is Christ with those who God sends to you.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,          
What happened first Act 15 or Gal 2? You said something in a paper how in Gal 2 Peter shouldn’t have been with the Gentiles in the first place. I don’t follow your thought. Can you explain? Thanks, M____

Good morning M____,
Thank you for your question.
You ask:
“What happened first: Act 15 or Gal 2 ? You said something in a paper how in Gal 2 Peter shouldn’t have been with the Gentiles in the first place. I don’t follow your thought. Can you explain?”
The answer is that Gal 2 happened first. You say “in a paper,” so I am not sure which paper, but that really doesn’t matter because I have consistently pointed out that Paul was holding Peter to the standards of THE gospel. Not ‘a’ gospel, but THE one and only “gospel of Jesus Christ” which is also referred to in scripture as “the gospel of the kingdom of heaven, the gospel of the kingdom of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God, the gospel of the grace of God and the gospel of peace, ” So, as Paul made so clear to Peter in Gal 2, whether it is “the gospel of the circumcision or the gospel of the uncircumcision, it is all called “THE gospel.”
When I said ‘Peter should never have eaten with the Gentiles in the first place, what I was saying was IF there were any truth to this Concordant doctrine of two separate gospels with two separate requirements of their respective adherents, then Peter would have been completely within his rights to have informed Paul, right then and there that he, Peter was not of the ‘gospel of the uncircumcision,’ if indeed the phrase ‘gospel of the uncircumcision’ meant what the Concordant writers claim it means. But that is not what Peter did. Peter agreed with Paul that there was “no difference between us;” we are both “purified… by faith.”

Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Here is Peter, who the Concordant writers, including A. E. Knoch himself, refer to as the chief “circumcision apostle,” telling you and me and the whole world that the Gentiles are “purified by faith, no difference between us and them.” But, as the Adversary always does, the Concordant writers and all of orthodox Christianity, equivocate and contradict themselves, and say there really is a difference between us and them. All the while Truth remains the Truth. Here is Paul continuing his admonition to Peter and Barnabas and all the Jews who had separated themselves from the Gentile brothers:

Gal 2:15  We [ Paul, Peter, Barnabas, etc] who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

That seems to be beyond need for discussion. “We who are Jews by nature, know that a man is not justified by the works of the law.” But when God blinds eyes to His word, those eyes cannot see those words and so the whole world to this very day cannot see that “he is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly…” (Rom 2:28).
Let’s take a look at what really happened. Peter was in Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, fellowshipping with, and eating with all of the Gentile converts who were in the church at Antioch. While they were fellowshipping and eating with these Gentile converts, “certain [ men] came from James” and all of a sudden Peter and Barnabas, “fearing them that were of the circumcision,” withdrew themselves from the Gentiles, and hypocritically reverted to the law of Moses, which forbade an uncircumcised Gentile to eat of the sacrifices offered to God. To a Jew this meant do not eat with a Gentile. So here is what happened next:

Gal 2:11  But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12  For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13  And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation [ hypocrisy].
Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

The entire orthodox Christian world and the Concordant Publishing Concern teach that God has two “chosen people,” the Jews, whether they believe in Christ or not, and the Gentiles who believe in Christ. This is a lie, and here is the Truth:

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly…

That is right, the physical nation of Israel are NOT Jews. They “say they are Jews, but are NOT.”

Rev 2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

All who continue to act as Peter and Barnabas and all those Jews who acted as if the Gentiles of Antioch were not now part “of the commonwealth of Israel,” be they Christian or Jewish, are now “them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” You simply cannot spit on Christ’s doctrine that “we brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise… he is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly,” and at the same time claim to be a representative of the gospel and kingdom of God and His Christ.
But just like John Hagee and the entire orthodox Christian church today, Peter and Barnabas acted as if being circumcised outwardly and being an outward Jew, were tenets of the gospel. They most definitely are NOT! So Paul, at that very moment called out Peter’s hypocrisy in front of the whole church. Had Paul not done so, then the doctrine of two chosen people would have prevailed. But God will have no part of such hypocrisy:

Gal 2:13  And the other Jews dissembled [ played the hypocrite] likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Gal 2:15  We [ who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17  But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [ is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18  For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19  For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [ come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Look at verse 18. Paul was “destroying” that law which said Jews and Gentiles could not eat together. He was doing so simply because the law itself had foretold a time of reformation, just like all the reforms given by Moses:

Deu 18:15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16  According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17  And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19  And it shall come to pass, [ that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [ it] of him.
Deu 18:20  But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

“Horeb” is Sinai. “In Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not” was all right there at the original giving of the ten commandments on two tables of stone. It was at that same time that the law itself foretold of its own reforming, “a change also of the law,” through “a prophet… like unto thee.” Here are the verses which give the time when the people asked Moses to not let them hear or see God.

Exo 20:17  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [ is] thy neighbour’s.
Exo 20:18  And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [ it], they removed, and stood afar off.
Exo 20:19  And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Christ told his own twelve apostles the night of His apprehension that He had “many things” to tell them which they could not yet receive. One of those “many things” was that the Gentiles were to become part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Eph 2:11  Wherefore remember, that ye being i n time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [ between us];
Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [ even] the law of commandments [ contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [ so] making peace;
Eph 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17  And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18  For through him .
Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [ stone];

Peter had already been to the home of Cornelius. It was Peter who first ate with those Gentiles there in the home of Cornelius, and yet he, at that time, just as Christians to this very day, still believed that being born an outward Jew somehow counted for something with God. It does NOT. “He is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly and circumcision is of the heart, not of the flesh.”

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Peter finally learned this lesson at Syria and Antioch. Immediately after that confrontation in Antioch it was decided that those men who came from James would go with Peter and Paul up to Jerusalem to settle this question of physical circumcision, and find out if it were indeed necessary for salvation. Act 15 is the result of that decision, and it is clear that James and Peter still were not able to receive the Truth that physical circumcision, was totally irrelevant to salvation, even for the salvation of a physical Jew.

Act 15:22  Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [ namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Act 15:23  And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [ send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24  Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [ such] commandment:
Act 15:25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26  Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27  We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 15:30  So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

All this epistle from the church at Jerusalem said was that Gentile converts did not have to be circumcised. It is clear from what happened in the very next chapter of Acts that the Jews did not understand that epistle to exempt them from this outward ritual. Paul himself took Timothy out and circumcised him “because of the Jews in those parts.” Paul’s own understanding of the depth of Christ’s reformation was still growing, and Gal 2 had not yet been written.

Act 16:1  Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father [ was] a Greek:
Act 16:2  Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3  Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

This is another subject which is already covered in the article The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit. This whole story demonstrates for us that conversion is a lifelong process. We “die daily” to the “law of sin and death” and we are “resurrected to newness of life” and “live by the faith of the son of God.” It is all right here in Galatians two, the chapter which has provoked your question:

Gal 2:19  For I through the law [ the prophecy of “another prophet” at Horeb] am dead to the law [ Deut. 18:15-20], that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20  I am crucified with Christ [ to the law of Moses, Rom 7:1-3]: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I hope this answers your question and that you can see that conversion is not a ten- second sinner’s prayer, but a lifelong process which doesn’t even begin until we come to see that after we have been called, we still deny our Lord three times. Then, after we see how totally helpless we are of ourselves, at that point only can the holy spirit come into us to begin the process of conversion.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

D____ wrote:
    Just a quick question, is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ? I know the apostles were converted at Pentecost. Are we converted when we receive the Holy Spirit? Do you have any articles pertaining to salvation and its process?

Hi D____,
Thank you for your question.

You ask:

“Is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ? I know the apostles were converted at Pentecost. Are we converted when we receive the Holy Spirit?”

That is right, the apostles did not even begin to become converted until they received the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost.
The apostle Paul tells us unequivocally the difference between being spiritually minded and being yet carnally minded:

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

We read these verses and think that on the day of Pentecost, everyone on whom the “cloven tongues of fire” rested was transformed at that moment from a carnal to a spiritual mind. But that is not the case at all. Conversion typically began within God’s elect at that point. Peter, as a type of all who were there that day, and as a type of all in Christ since that day, at that point began to overcome his carnal mind. Never again would he run away from Christ in order to save his own life. But the Adversary simply becomes more subtle in his manipulation of our carnal minds. While Peter never again deliberately denied his association with Christ, he did do so inadvertently when he separated himself from the Gentile converts in Antioch, after eating with them “before certain men came from James.”

Gal 2:12  For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

This was several years after Pentecost. It is obvious that conversion is an ongoing process that doesn’t even begin until after the holy spirit begins to open our eyes and ears to see that “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair…”

Act 2:16  But this [ the events surrounding the day of Pentecost] is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19  And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

The day of Pentecost typifies the beginning of God’s spirit opening our eyes to see God’s “wonders in heaven, and signs in the earth…” It is at the beginning of our conversion that we finally recognize that we are, of ourselves, totally blind; “the sun is turned into darkness” on the first day of the beginning of the process of conversion. These prophecies mean nothing until we come to see What and Where Is Heaven. Read the paper on iswasandwillbe. com by that title.
Understanding that conversion is a process, we should be able to understand why Christ chose a little child to make His point about who will and who will not come to be great in the kingdom of heaven. Look at what Christ told His apostles:

Mat 18:3 and said, Verily, I am saying to you, If you should not be turn ing and becom ing as little children, you may by no means be enter ing into the kingdom of the heavens. (CVL)

I have emboldened the ‘ing’ on all the words in that verse to demonstrate the fact that this thing called ‘conversion’ is an ongoing process which doesn’t even begin until we are “born again.’
Look at the context of that verse:

Mat 18:1 Now in that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who, consequently, is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?
Mat 18:2 And, calling a little child to Him, He stands it in their midst,
Mat 18:3 and said, “Verily, I am saying to you, If you should not be turn ing and becom ing as little children, you may by no means be enter ing into the kingdom of the heavens.”
Mat 18:4 Who, then, will be humbl ing himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.” (CVL)

Why did Christ call a child to him to demonstrate how one is being converted and entering the kingdom of heaven. Was he telling us that we should be naive and gullible and let every heresy that comes down the pike enter into our spiritual homes? No, that is not what Christ is saying at all. Christ wants us to be vigilant and diligent heresy hunters.

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
2Pe 3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

The reason Christ called a little child to Him was to demonstrate to His puffed up, carnal minded apostles, the humility and the teachable attitude of a child, not the naive or gullible attributes of a child:

Mat 18:4 Who, then, will be humbling himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.”

It is the humility and the ability to be taught that a little child characterizes in Christ’s statement.
The apostles were with Christ for three and one half years, had watched Christ, and had themselves, cast out demons and healed the sick, and yet the night of Christ’s apprehension by the Jews, Christ told Peter that Peter wasn’t even beginning to be converted yet:

Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33  And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luk 22:34  And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

Christ’s comments to his yet carnally minded apostles about “becoming as a little child” were made in the context of those carnal minded apostles arguing with each other over which of them would be the greatest in the kingdom:

Luk 9:46  Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
Luk 9:47  And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
Luk 9:48  And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

The three and one half years in which the apostles were with Christ, and saw what Christ was capable of doing, and yet did not have Christ in them, living His life of dying to the things of this world.

Joh 14:17  [ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [ Read the paper  on the trinity on iswasandwillbe. com]

 That three and one half years symbolizes all the years of our lives lived in Babylon and all the years we spend getting Babylon our of us. Here is how the spirit expresses this thought in the book of Revelation.

Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

“The woman” in scripture, is always the church, which brings forth Christ’s Christ, “a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:”

Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

But this “manchild who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron,” is separated from “the woman,” and is “caught up unto God, and to His throne.”

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heaven ly [ places] in Christ:
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus:

The word ‘places’ is in brackets because it is not in the Greek. We are to reckon ourselves as having died, been resurrected and now seated together with Christ, having ascended into the heavens. Not “heavenly places,” but “the heavenly things themselves.”

Heb 9:23  [ It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these [ the blood of bulls and goats]; but the heavenly things themselves [ those in Christ who also have Christ in them] with better sacrifices than these.

“The things in the heavens?” That is right. You and I are “the things in the heavens, ” and “the heavenly things themselves. You will not understand a word of any of these prophecies of Revelation, Ephesians, Hebrews, or any other verse of scripture, if you do not understand Where and What Is Heaven? As I suggested above, if you have not done so then be sure to read the paper by that title on iswasandwillbe. com.
Getting back to your question, the answer is, Yes indeed, we are “carnal… babes in Christ” for a symbolic three and one half years before we even begin to “die with Christ” to the things of this world and have Christ living “in us.” Having Christ in us means that we are with Him “in the heavens.” Paul makes this super- clear in the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, which we will cover below.
But first let’s notice what happens to the woman herself? Is she also “caught up to God and to His throne?” No, not at all. She is instead, taken into the wilderness. And it is there “in the wilderness, that the earth opens it mouth and swallows the flood which comes out of the mouth of the dragon. Apparently God loves the woman as well as her Child. But “the woman” is still in the wilderness. What else happens while we are in the wilderness?

Num 14:22  Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

“Tempted… these ten times… in the wilderness” is the same as “three and one half years in the wilderness” simply because that is what happens “in the wilderness.” We have accepted Christ’s sacrifice, have put the blood of His sacrifice on our door posts and mantle, we are coming out of Egypt, we have even been baptized in the Red Sea, and we have witnessed all the miracles that were necessary to get us to this point, but we are “yet carnal… babes in Christ.”
That is what Christ told Peter and all of His apostles after three and one half years of casting out demons, healing the sick, hearing his parables and having them explained to them in private.

Mar 9:32  But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Luk 9:45  But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

That is also the condition of the woman who brings forth the manchild, but is not caught up to God and to His throne. She has not yet begun to see with spiritual eyes or hear with spiritual ears.
The apostle Paul agrees with  both the story of the woman in Rev 12 and with Christ’s example of the little child in the gospels,  when he tells us that the church he raised up was “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, came behind in no gift of the spirit, and yet did not have that spirit within them.”

1Co 1:1  Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
 
1Co 1:6  Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7  So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 

The church is just like the woman in the wilderness in Rev 12 with the moon under her feet, clothed with the sun, yet she was unworthy of being seated in heaven with her man- child son.  The church is just like the apostles who had Christ Himself in their midst and were, with Christ, themselves casting out demons and healing the sick, and yet what was the state of their heart? What was their spiritual condition?

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

So there it is in God’s word. We can heal the sick and cast out demons, and we are still only on the milk of the Word and not yet able to receive or be “spoken unto as unto spiritual.” That seems inconceivable to the natural minded Christian who considers physical blessings as a sign of spiritual maturity. Physical blessings, with never any trials, is rather a sign of a lack of spiritual growth simply because of this one basic Truth of God’s Word:

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12  Teaching [ Greek, chastening. Same Greek word, ‘paideuo,’ found in Heb 12:6] us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Here is that same message in Heb 12. This is more than just milk, and consequently it is more than most can receive:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son [ uihos] whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son [ uihos] is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The word ‘son’ is the Greek word ‘uihos,’ meaning a grown up son who is being prepared to receive his inheritance. There is another Greek word for an immature child who is not yet ready to receive an inheritance. That word is ‘nepios.’ Here are a couple of verses which have this word in them. We saw this first verse above, where Paul was talking to the “sanctified in Christ, called to be saints, come behind in no gift… carnal… babes in Christ” Corinthians. Here is where Paul is forced to point out the hypocrisy of new born babes in Christ.

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes [ nepios] in Christ.

Gal 4:1  Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child [ Greek, nepios], differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2  But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

It is amazing how few sermons are preached on Galatians three and four. And of those which are preached on these chapters, it is few indeed which notice that the heir is always a nepios,  a carnal babe in Christ, still under the elements of this world, looking for and receiving physical healing, physical casting out of oppressing spirits and demons. The heir is a saint who is sanctified in Christ Jesus, but who is “yet a carnal… babe in Christ.” Here is Paul, telling us just that:

Gal 4:3  Even so we, when we were children [ Greek, nepios], were in bondage under the elements of the world: [ the law, 1Ti 1:9. Read The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit on iswasandwillbe. com]
Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son [ uihos], made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons [ Greek, uihothesia, grown son, heir].

So let me ask again, why did Christ use “a little child” to demonstrate who would be in the kingdom? Of course Christ wanted us to see the humble and teachable attitude of ‘a little child,’ but that very characteristic also teaches us that we must also grow out of being “a little child” under a schoolmaster, into a grown up child prepared to receive an inheritance from the Father. ” We were children [ nepios] in bondage under the elements of the world… that we might receive the adoption of sons [ uihothesia].
It now should be obvious that we are all “carnal babes in Christ” before we become mature sons. In other words we are all the “woman in the wilderness” before we become “a man child who rules all nations with a rod of iron.” 
That is what Christ meant when He told the Adversary:

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of th e mouth of God.

So let us quit reading God’s Word as if only part of it had any personal application. Here is how we are to approach every word in the entirety of God’s Word, the Bible.

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

We do not keep only the good parts of God’s Word, we are the negative part before we become the good part. “The time is at hand… keep those things which are written therein.”
This is repeated at the end of this book along with a very sobering warning:

Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Here is the sobering warning to any who presume that any part of the sayings of the prophecy of this book does not personally apply:

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So maybe we all need to “keep [ all] the sayings of the prophecy of this book” and not take away or add to these sayings.

Your question still remains:
“Is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ?

The direct answer is, no, it is not possible to be carnally minded and spiritually minded at the same time. But it is possible to begin to “grow in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and to be humbled by our carnal mind while we still have “dominion over sin,” in an overall sense. This is what Paul meant when he made these statements:

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [ this] one thing [ I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [ Greek, being perfected], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16  Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

So the answer is that we cannot have the holy spirit and still be carnally minded, and let our flesh hold its dominion over our lives. But we can struggle with the carnal mind and the principalities and powers of the heavens, while being under the dominion of the holy spirit.
The only question left that will logically be asked at this point is how can we tell whether we have passed from the carnal mind to the mind of the spirit? Can we tell by how much spiritual knowledge one possesses? No, that is not a Biblical litmus test. Here is the one litmus test which the scripture gives, and admonishes us to use:

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John repeats this “passing from death unto life” in his epistle”

1Jn 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

So according to these verses, “loving our brothers” is the litmus test of whether we really have God’s spirit abiding in us. “He that loves not his brother abides in death.” It is, according to Christ, entirely possible to know many spiritual truths and do many wonderful works, and still be just as carnal as the day is long:

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Our many good works are not a synonym for the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Neither does the performance of good works for others equate to loving our brothers, as surprising as that may sound. How can I make such a statement? If doing good to others is not love for that person, then what, pray tell is? Here is the only thing which God accepts as being true love of your fellow man, and it is not necessarily a matter of accommodating your brother at all. In fact it is very often the exact opposite of accommodating your brother and your true love for your brother just might cause you to be hated of your brother and be hated of all men. Here is how we know that we have passed from death unto life. This is true love of your brothers. This is “the love of God.”

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

How do we know that we love our brothers? “When we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.”
Again, I ask, how do we know we love our brothers? Is it love of our brothers, if we fail to point out heresies and blatant lies against the Word of God? Are we showing love for our brothers when we allow every heretical doctrine conceivable into our spiritual house, rather than rebuking the unfruitful works of darkness and doctrinal lies? Is love a synonym for unity at all costs? Is the ecumenical mantra of “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” a doctrine of love? What say the scriptures?

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And here are God’s commandments to keep us conscious of what is the true love of God. Here are God’s commandments which alone will keep the 200,000,000 false doctrines of Babylon within us from completely blotting out the light of the Sun:

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Again, how do we “love one another?” What is “the love of God.” I must repeat:

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Tit 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Christ and Joseph, and every man of God down through all the generations of mankind, have demonstrated that if we remain faithful to “the doctrine of Christ,” we will indeed “be hated of all men.” But as many wise men have also observed, ‘It is better to be separated by the Truth than to be united in a lie.’

Gen 49:26  The blessings of thy [ Joseph’s] father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I hope this has helped you to see that you cannot be a carnal babe in Christ and also have the holy spirit living its life of love within you. But I also hope you can see that conversion is a life- long process that did not happen at one day in the past and is no longer going on. We will be “dying daily” till the day we die.

1Co 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Joh 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.

I will close with this very encouraging word:

2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [ is], there [ is] liberty.
2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [ even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Stay in your Bible. The more you come to see who is Christ, the more like Him you will become.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Abiding in the Doctrine of Christ

At What Point is a Person Considered Converted?

Mike,

Thank you so much for hosting the conference at your house. It was very nourishing for us. We greatly enjoyed meeting everyone, and cannot wait to see you all again.

I do have a question: At the end of the article on the number 1=unity, you wrote this “Can anyone who is not ‘of the same mind’ and not “abiding in the doctrine of Christ” be a converted Christian?”

If we are “being saved” at what point does someone become “converted”? What does it mean to be of the same mind and abide in the doctrine of Christ?

Thank You,

M____

Hi M_____,

You ask:

You ask:
If we are “Being saved” at what point does someone become “converted”.

I have a letter on iswasandwillbe.com entitled The Seven Steps To Salvation which demonstrates that Israel was not converted simply by applying the blood to the doorpost as we have been taught.

The short answer to your question is that you are converted when “sin [no longer] has dominion over you… and you are free from sin.”

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

What does “freed from sin” mean? Does “freed from sin” mean that we are perfected in this life? No, it does not. If it did then Paul would not make all these statements:

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [Greek: being perfected], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We walk “whereto we have already attained.” We are not already perfect. We “count not ourselves to have apprehended”, rather we “press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling.” Look at this verse:

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

“Being made conformable to His death… till we all come… unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.” I hope these verses demonstrate that ‘being converted’ is life-long process which demonstrates the truth of these words:

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

That is what Paul meant by “I die daily.”

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

When are we converted? It certainly isn’t when we are called. 1 Corinthians 1 and 3 demonstrate that for us:

1Co 1:1 Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

“Called to be saints… in everything enriched by Him, in all utterance and in all knowledge… the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you… you came behind in no gift.” That all sounds very good. Were these Corinthians therefore converted? No, just like Christ’s apostles after following Christ for three and one half years, casting out demons and healing the sick, these Corinthians were still not converted. None of us are converted when we first come to Christ. We are at first carnal babes.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

“The testimony of Christ and the possession of spiritual gifts do not prove conversion. Look at what Christ told Peter after three and on half years of healing the sick and casting out demons:

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

As long as we are still denying Christ, blaspheming His name among the heathen, we are not yet converted. Here is how we know when we are converted:

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When sin is no longer your slave master, you are no longer a “carnal babe in Christ.” As long as sin still controls you and your actions and thoughts you are not yet converted.

I hope that is of some help, as you “die daily [and you] decrease as He increases into the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.” Conversion is that process. It is not a date on the calendar which has come and gone.

Your next question was:

What does it mean to be of the same mind, and abide in the doctrine of Christ?

What it does not mean is to be divided into literally hundreds of thousands of conflicting denominations, each brandishing its own ‘statement of beliefs’ yet all striving for “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials.”

Look at these verses and allow that “one spirit” to show you what it means to “be of the same mind.”

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

False doctrines, as we will see later, are ‘spirits which are not of God’ (1Jn 4:1). Knowing that, I want you to consider this verse.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is but one body in one spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Our access to the Father is “by one spirit,” not by thousands of false doctrines.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Where is there room in any of those verses for Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Protestant, or any of the thousands of splinters within any of those four groups? The scriptures prescribe divisions within the body of God’s elect, and that is why God’s elect are commanded to “come out of her my people.”

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

When you understand What and Where Is Heaven, then you will understand why “her sins have reached unto heaven.” If you have not yet read that paper linked above, be sure to do so. The “powers and principalities” of the heavens are the very sins we struggle against as we “try the spirits to see whether they are of God.”

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

This is one of the most revealing verses of scripture because it reveals the connection between evil spirits and the false doctrines of false prophets.

Compare what passes for Christianity with what Paul was expecting of those who attended the congregations He was used by Christ to raise up:

Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

There it is. You asked “What does one mind mean?” One mind means one spirit, and one spirit means one mind.

Does all of this talk about “one spirit, one body, and one mind” mean that Paul was a dictator? Absolutely not. Look at these words of our Lord and of Paul:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

2Co 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

God’s elect have dominion over nothing but sin in their own lives, and even that is “through Christ.”

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

To anyone who cannot, and does not, believe that Christ really is the head of His church; to those who demand that a pastor, evangelist, bishop, preacher, priest, or Pope be the head of their church, the holy spirit’s words, penned by Paul and the other writers of the New Testament who all speak of “speaking the same thing, being of one mind and being in one spirit,” these words no doubt sound like the words of a cult leader, but the truth of the scriptures remains that anyone who has a statement of beliefs other then “every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God” is the true apostate from the word of God.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

How could anyone who truly believes we are to “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God” subscribe to the doctrine of “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials?” Which words of “every word proceeding out of the mouth of God” are “nonessential?”

We have been given scriptures which direct us away from all these ‘tried and found wanting spirits’ but for some strange reason these verses seldom show up in the statements of beliefs of all the orthodox churches of Christianity, simply because these verses condemn denominationalism. For example, let just get started with the verse we quoted above:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

What are God’s elect supposed to do when they discover a “spirit which is not of God?” How can we possibly know for certain which spirits are of God? The scriptures alone can make that decision, but who can receive their fiery testimony? It’s right here is this same chapter which tells us to “believe not every spirit, but try the spirits.” Here alone is how we can know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error:

1Jn 4:5 They [those who refuse to “try the spirits to see whether they are of God”] are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We [who insist on trying the spirits to see whether they are of God] are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Who in the ecumenical, orthodox, “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” Christian church would even dare to quote those inspired words of God? There is not one in the whole lot, simply because if he were to do so he would no longer be an orthodox Christian. God’s word has no place in any denomination as demonstrated by the verses I have already quoted.

How did this happen? Here is exactly what happened.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

The Greek word for ‘simplicity’ is ‘haplotes‘ and it is defined by James Strong as ‘singleness.’ Before the apostles were even dead, the churches they had been used to raise up had already been “corrupted from the singleness, the one body, one spirit, one mind, and one gospel that is Christ.” This is not speculation; this is the truth of 2 Corinthians 11:3 and many other scriptures. Yet we all prefer to “bear with” heresy and heretics rather than be separated from our brothers, the “seed of Abraham” who spiritually are “the son of the bondwoman.”

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Here is another scripture which reveals the apostasy in progress before the apostles died:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

“Another gospel” is not another but rather is a perverted gospel of Christ. Christians all believe this is anyone but themselves. The obvious Truth is that we have all been part of this Babylonian system, and if we are not given eyes to see it, we will never see our own blindness.

Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him [you and I, born blind], Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

As is so often the case regarding understanding “the things of the spirit”, sight comes only through acknowledging our blindness. Some call that “believing in contradictions.” Jesus made many such statements.

Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it [etc.].

Denominationalism was already institutionalized while Paul was still alive.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Orthodox Christianity would say, “Well, yes, of course Christ is divided. He is divided a few thousand times at least.”

So what are we to do when no one is willing to be the ‘us’ and the ‘we’ of this verse?

1Jn 4:6 We [who try the spirits to see whether they are of God] are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

There we have it! The one litmus test that truly tells us how we can know the spirit of Truth from the spirit of error, also teaches us what is “the love of God.” Here is the one verse which nullifies all heresies and sects, as well as defining what is love, and the whole orthodox Christian world throws it out the door.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

No, his commandments are not grievous. His commandments keep His elect “of one mind.”

2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Three times we are told as plainly as it can be stated, “Be of one mind.” If this is impossible, then this final admonition is also impossible. But of course, through Christ and His word, these admonitions are not only possible but they are essential if we claim to “love God and keep his commandments.”

Here now is how unity is to be maintained within and among God’s elect:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

What is that first and second admonition?

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall [have been] bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall [have been] loosed in heaven.

Will any one deny that heresy is a sin against a brother? Is heresy not dealt with in the same manner?

2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

“Abideth not in the doctrine of Christ???” But I thought we were not to judge. Didn’t Christ say, “Judge not that ye be not judged?”

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

There it is! Christ said, “Judge not.” However, what is the sum of His word on this subject? How can we possible “obey his commandments” in 2 John 1:8-11 if we “judge not?” And how about these verses:

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

… and what do we do with these verses:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

“We have the mind of Christ and judge all things.” That is more of “the sum of thy word” on this subject of judging.

Are we not “as he is in this world?” Yes, we are.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Why did Christ come to this world?

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Just maybe Christ had more to say here in Matthew 7:

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Christ is speaking specifically of our hypocrisy. It a hypocrite with a tree in his eye who has no business judging his brother who has a speck of dust in his eye. That is the point of Matthew 7:1-4.

Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

He comes out and tells us as much:

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Those who have seen their own hypocrisy are actually admonished, “Then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother’s eye.” In other words:

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

He is especially keen to judge an evil and false spirit:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

God’s elect are not deceived by the argument of false “love of God” simply because they know what the “love of God” is.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

God’s elect are more than willing to be separated from their “seed of the bondwoman” brothers who are loath to be separated from their brothers; who much prefer the mantra of “Unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” to:

2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There you have it. It appears that God expects His elect to know Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. It appears that in order to know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent, we must also know and “abide in the doctrine of Jesus Christ.”

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I hope this helps you to see what “abide in the doctrine of Christ” and “be of one mind” means. My prayers are with you as you continue to abide in that doctrine and strive to “come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Your brother in Christ,

Mike