Hi Mike and Sandi,

Just dropping by to say hello…. and mention something that crossed my mind while reading an article on the website.

Mat 24:3 b: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The word ‘world’ as you know, is translated from aion, an age. The coming of Christ means the end of an age. What I understand from this is that for the chosen ones in this lifetime, the aion ends at the moment Christ takes his rightful place within. At that moment we do not longer belong to the people of whom Christ said “let the dead bury their dead”, but we belong to the group who are dragged out of darkness into His wonderful light.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The end of the world, of this age already ended for God’s chosen ones the moment God’s grace opens their eyes for His truths. Does this mean that we are home free? Nope, on the contrary… then God will start his burning of our wood, hay and stubble. The moment Christ takes His rightful place is when the burning begins. This is exactly what will happen to the rest of humanity in the second resurrection. Christ (The Word) takes His rightful place, and the burning will begin. You and I know already that this burning only brings forth good, although it is hard sometimes on the inside. The rest of humanity will in time, in that lake of spiritual fire, realize also that this burning is a good thing… a very, very good thing, because when it is finished, we all will be as He is.

Give my best to the family.
Your brother in Christ,
R____

Hi R____,

It is good to hear from you and to share your insights.
Yes, the coming of Christ is the beginning of His fiery judgments within our hearts and minds. The beginning of the mystery of Christ in us is the ending of the mystery of the man of sin who, up to that time, has been standing in the temple of our hearts and minds declaring himself to be God. That is the battle ground, and that is where the torments of that fire rage.

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

If we felt we had it made, we would not be hoping for salvation. On the other hand, if we are required to remain diligent, sober, vigilant and zealous, then we will continue to hope with confidence that He who has begun a work in us will perform it until the day of the Lord.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Php 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

So “the day of Jesus Christ” is both present spiritually, and it is future dispensationally. We all partake of the same grace… until the day of Jesus Christ. So “the day of the Lord” has both a spiritual, inward, present application, as well as an outward, dispensational, future application for the end of the age.
The phrase “end of the age” itself has both an inward and an outward application, and both are valid and essential to understand if we believe in a consummation of the ages.
Most people will never understand the inward application at all in this age and will never understand how Christ could say:

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

These “nations” are all seen only outwardly by the multitudes who come to Christ and not as inward “powers and principalities”.

Eph 6:12 Because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world- rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual [ forces] of the wickedness in the heavenlies [ or, heavenly [ realms]]. (ALT)

That is where the nations and rulers reside to whom we must take the gospel before the end will come. The multitudes of Christianity simply are not yet given to see or hear these spiritual matters. So they are dumbfounded by Christ declaring that the generation in which He lived would not pass until all these things were fulfilled, including the gospel going to all nations, and the end of the world.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [ even] at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

What does this mean? It means that even though ‘the mystery of God… Christ in you the hope of glory… should not be finished… until the seven plagues of the seven angels is fulfilled’, nevertheless, the opening of the seven seals and the blowing of the seven trumpets are all part of and must precede the fulfilling of the seven plagues of the seven angels.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 T o whom God would make known what [ is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

So while Christ is already in us in “earnest” and we are “saved by hope” and while we are even now His Sons, we still look forward to “the redemption of the purchased possession”.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So “we are Sons now”, and He is living in us now, and yet “it does not yet appear what we shall be”. In other words, the reason the seals, trumpets and vials are so closely and inseparably connected is because they are all those words which “are, were and will be” and which will “gather us all together” in sharing the one mind of Christ”, and they are those words of Christ which “will never pass away.”

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

When is all of this “near, even at the doors”? It is always so, because Christ’s Words do not pass away. You are right in that the burning out process does not begin until Christ comes into our lives, but that is simply a matter of perspective. Again, this is the fact of the matter even for those who are unaware of the chastening they are receiving at the hand of God:

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Hag 2:17 I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labours of your hands; yet ye [ turned] not to me, saith the LORD.

I hope this helps you to see that the groaning and travailing is being experienced by “the whole creation”, while only a few are given to understand and benefit from understanding the hope these birth pains gives us and the purpose for the pain we all endure.
Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Hi Mike,

I have been reading from your site off and on for a while now, and really enjoy your views and understandings of the Word. The institutional “church” in my opinion seems to be lacking in understanding of what “Christianity” is. If the whole world lies in deceit, it would behoove each of us then to implore the Spirit to show us where we are deceived. It is troubling, in a sense, not to believe the things that most of “Christendom” believes and to believe things which makes me, in their words, a “non Christian”. ‘If you don’t believe this and that way brother, you are not His.’ Well, I don’t think so.
It seems that the apostle Paul, the only apostle taught by the resurrected Christ, didn’t have an understanding of the Blessed Holy Trinity, as virtually all of his greetings in his epistles and letters refer only to “God” and to the Lord Jesus. Also, if the Holy Spirit as a separate individual descended onto Mary, wouldn’t the child then be the Son of The Third Person of The Most Holy Blessed Trinity instead of God? There is only One God and His Son, The Lord.
For the last couple of years I’ve been doing study and research on what “In Christ” means. I have a thought that I would like your opinion on. Act 17:28 tells us “In Him we live and move and have our being.” In Revelation we find that Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. In the book of Genesis we find that in the Beginning “God” created the heaven and earth. In Ephesians we find that we were placed in Christ before the foundation of the world. My thought is: The Beginning is not only a reference to time, but also a place, i. e. Christ in which everything was created! The Alpha then is Christ, and everything then indeed exists in Him, and He is the Beginning of the creation of “God”. Everything is about Christ. Christ is all and in all! Amazing, wonderful Christ! Awaiting your thoughts.

Thanks, Mike,
E____

Hi E____,

Thank you for your question, and I am pleased to know you enjoy reading iswasandwillbe. com.
You certainly are right about the “institutional church”. The fact is that just as the church of Christ’s day delivered him up to the secular powers for treason, saying “We have no king but Caesar”, so too, today it would be the orthodox Christian church who would lead the mob to deliver “our Lord and His Christ” up to be crucified for simply speaking and following the words of our Lord.
You are very observant to note that no New Testament writer ever speaks of the holy spirit as a person, but rather as “the holy spirit of God… the Father, of whom are all things”.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Your last question concerns the doctrine of “the Christ”, which is who we are in Christ.
It is nothing less than the holy spirit which has caused you to note that God created the heavens and the earth “in the beginning”. This word here in Gen 1:1 happens to be the same word which is translated ‘firstfruits’ in all these verses:

Lev_2:12, Lev_23:10, Num_18:12, Deu_26:10, 2Ch_31:5, Neh_10:37, Neh_12:44, Pro_3:9, Jer_2:3, Eze_20:40, Eze_48:14

Since if Christ is “the firstfruits”, then it follows that it was in Him that God did all of His creating, and lo and behold, that is exactly what we are told:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

There are many writings on iswasandwillbe. com on this doctrine. Here are but a couple. Please read these and then if you still have a question, feel free to get back to me.
http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ Lacking_ of_ His_ Afflictions. php
http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ Just_ How_ Christ_ Centric_ Is_ Scripture. php
Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Hi Mike,

I was wondering if the other part of the significance of the Num 33 and 66 could also relate to what we have already covered in regard to this prophecy in Dan 9 and Rev 11.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Christ’s ministry is three and a half years, as is the ministry of the two witnesses. So in this case, we see ‘the dream is one’ in that all men have to experience 66, because we all ‘come out of her my people’ except for Christ, for to come out of Babylon is to come out of sin, and we know that Christ never sinned. However Hos 11:1 speaks of the journey of all men in time who have a symbolic 66 year journey to come out of sin.
Christ’s flesh (33) goes through the process of judgment as a true witness, and we live every word by being both a false witness in our time as well as a true witness eventually. (33+33=66) Or put another way we are both the maid child and the man child in our appointed time, and those who are the maid child in this present evil age, as scriptures show, are the elect of God.
The one part I can’t confirm in scripture is that Christ was actually 33 when he died. I’ve read many places that scholars say this is an approximate date and that there is no way to actually prove by scripture that he was 33 when he died.
It’s very clear that all flesh is sinful flesh when you start looking at these numbers and consider that Christ had to learn obedience by the things which He suffered.
I hope I’m looking at this correctly. I would appreciate your feedback, but don’t ever worry about getting back quickly. I understand better than ever how many joyful burdens our Lord has allowed to be placed on you and Sandi for the joy of body of Christ.

Your brother in Him,
T____

Hi T____,

First of all, thank you for your patience. Thank you also for sharing your thoughts here with me.
You are right when you say Christ’s flesh goes through the process of judgment as 33 indicates. I have never in my life made that connection between Christ’s age and the process of judgment, so thank you for that thought.
You also make this statement:

The one part I can’t confirm in scripture is that Christ was actually 33 when he died. I’ve read many places that scholars say this is an approximate date and that there is no way to actually prove by scripture that he was 33 when he died.

It is true that there is no scripture that says Christ was 33, but we are told that He was ‘about 30’ when he began His ministry.

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

“About thirty” is not ‘about 29, or ‘about 31’. Jesus was ‘about 30’ years old when He began His ministry, and I am unaware of anyone who denies that John’s gospel records three separate Passovers.

Joh 2:13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,

This is the first passover mentioned in John. It is followed by this passover:

Joh 6:4 And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.

This second passover mentioned is followed by this feast of tabernacles in the next chapter:

Joh 7:2 Now the Jews’ feast of tabernacles was at hand.

Tabernacles is the fall festival at the end of that year. So here is the third Passover, which is mentioned after the feast of tabernacles there in John seven:

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

So we can say with complete certainty that Christ’s ministry included three Passovers or three years.
It really is not at all ‘adding to’ the word to deduce from the fact that if the ministry of the two witnesses is three and one half years, then the ministry of Christ must also have been three and one half years.
Here is why we should do so:

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

“A thousand two hundred and threescore days” is three and one half years. If we are as He is, then He is as we are described to be in His own Word. Our ministry is symbolized by three and one half years, because we are “as he is… in this world”.
As you pointed out some time back, the three and one half years of Christ’s ministry, plus the three and one half years of the ministry of “His body”, His “two witnesses” completes a symbolic seven years of ministry, and completes His work within His people.
This is no doubt far too spiritual an approach to this question for most, but I feel sure it will resonate with the spirit of Christ in those with that spirit.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hello Mike,

This is interesting to me. Something I was just looking at, but as usual all things in this world have to do with the gospel. In the four gospels I searched the two names – Jesus and Christ.
In Matthew the name Jesus appears 170 times and the name Christ appears 17 times.
In Mark the name Jesus appears 93 times and the name Christ appears 8 times.
In Luke the name Jesus appears 97 times and the name Christ appears 13 times.
In John the name Jesus appears 245 times and the name Christ appears 20 times.
So in the 4 gospels the name Jesus appears a total of 605 times, and the name Christ appears 58 times. In the rest of the New Testament an interesting change takes place.
From Acts through Revelation the name Jesus appears 335 times and the name Christ appears 474 times. It appears that it takes time like “here a little there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept”, but in time the physical man will decrease, and the spirit within will increase.
I appreciate your seeking God.

D____

Hi D____,

Thanks for sharing the fruits of your studies with me. I think you have seen a deep spiritual principle in what you have observed here. Our Savior’s family – His mother, Joseph, and His sisters and brothers, knew Him by His name, ‘Jesus’. Actually that is the English pronunciation of His name which, in the Greek, is pronounced, Iesous, as Strong’s indicates below. But your conclusion is…:

the physical man will decrease and the spirit within will increase.

… and I agree with you that seeing our Savior as “The Christ” is a much more spiritually mature place to be in, than knowing Him only by His name which, in its Hebrew form means ‘Savior’. I think you already are familiar with this verse which makes that point:

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

As you point out, ‘Christ’ is used more in the epistles, Acts and Revelation.
Here are the meanings of both ‘Jesus’ and ‘Christ’. We will consider ‘Jesus’ first.
 
G2424
Ιησους
Ie sous
ee- ay- sooce’
Of Hebrew origin [ H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: – Jesus.
Iesous is “of Hebrew origin” and is derived from H3091. Here is H3091.
H3091
   
yeho shu a  yeho shu a
yeh- ho- shoo’- ah, yeh- ho- shoo’- ah
From H3068 and H3467; Jehovah- saved; Jehoshua (that is, Joshua), the Jewish leader: – Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare H1954, H3442.

So Iesous is really nothing more than the Greek pronunciation of Joshua, and Joshua means “Jehovah saved”.
Now here is what Strong’s reveals about ‘Christ’.

G5547
Χριστος
Christos
khris- tos’
From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: – Christ.
Together “Jesus Christ” means ‘the Savior who is anointed of God’.

What was such a revelation to me was that “the revelation of Jesus Christ” reveals that there is a doctrine within the New Testament which teaches us that we “fill up… the Christ”. Look at these verses:

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Those two verses of Eph 1 tell us that it is “the church which is His body” which is “the fulness of Him that fills all in all”. In other words, God had the church in mind before He ever created Christ. It is “through our offenses that Christ was delivered up, and it is through our justification that He was raised from the dead.” The King James has the word ” for our…” but the Greek is ‘dia’ and it should be translated as ‘ through‘ and not ‘for’.

Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

That is not to say that the church comes before Christ, because it certainly does not. But the church is what God had planned “before the world began” to fill Christ, who in turn would fill up His Father who will be all in all. Here is how Christ tells us this Truth:

Joh 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Knowing the truth of Joh 14:20 is what provoked Paul to tells us:

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

We are in Christ, and Christ is in His Father. Thereby we are “the fulness of Him [ Christ] who fills Him [ the Father] who is all in all.

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Here it is again:

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he [ the Father] saith all things are put under him [ Christ], it is manifest that he [ the Father] is excepted, which did put all things under him [ Christ].
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him [ Christ], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [ the Father] that put all things under him [ Christ], that God [ the Father] may be all in all.

I repeat, this is all an explanation of these words:

Joh 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

The natural man will ask, ‘How can we be in Christ if Christ is in us?’ The man of the spirit has no such questions. He sees clearly that Christ and His Father have both taken up their abode within us, while we have, at the same time, taken up our abode in them.
There is a video from the Dallas conference in 2007 about this doctrine of “the Christ” entitled What is “The Christ”? It is complete with study notes which list all of the verses which contain the phrase “the Christ.” [ For the study notes just click on Study Notes on the list at the right hand side of the web page and scroll down to ‘Various Study Notes’.] “The Christ” appears 19 times in the King James Version, and it most often seems to be referring only to Christ Himself in those 19 entries. But it appears 54 times in the Concordant Version, and it is clear that many of those entries refer to Christ’s body as being Jesus Himself. That is the way Jesus of Nazareth looks upon us, if we really are in Him. Here are His own words to that effect:

Act 22:8  And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Here is how Rotherham puts that verse:

Act 22:8 And, I, answered- Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me- I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom, thou art persecuting!

What does this tell us? It tells us that our flesh is Christ’s flesh as “Jesus of Nazareth”, and as He is so are we. We are all “in the flesh”, yet we “know no man after the flesh”. Instead we know them all as Christ Himself.

Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [ it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [ it] unto me.

John put this doctrine in these words:

1Jn 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

You and I are “begotten of Him”, and if we deny that, then we are denying that we know Him. We are “His flesh and His bones,” as well as being His “spiritual house”. In other words “we have this treasure in earthen vessels…” and if we deny that Christ came in the same sinful flesh we contend with, then we are denying that He can be in these sinful earthen vessels which we now are. If that is our doctrine, then we are the spirit of antichrist.

Eph 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
2Co 4:7  But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

In spite of all of these verses, many billions of Christians attempt to disassociate Christ from the flesh of Adam, Abraham and King David. Whoever does that is also denying that He lives in their own “vessel of clay” and is believing a doctrine which is that spirit of antichrist”.
Try this spirit and this doctrine, and see whether it is of God.
Again, thanks for sharing your gems of truth with me.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I was wondering is the purpose of this life only for those that overcome (the judgment that begins with the house of God)… or are the things that the world goes through going to have a purpose for them at some point, too? It just seems to me that both the people that appear to maybe be chosen and those that are not even interested in God at this time, both have similar trials. So how do trials for the chosen differ from those of the world, how do you know the difference? Or are the trials of the world also starting to burn up the wood within the unbelievers?
Also, I know the scriptures say that God is not a respecter of persons. Does that mean that after an unbeliever dies, maybe in the spiritual lake of fire they will go through their own trials etc… or does the bible not speak on these topics?

Thanks Mike,
L____

Hi L____,
Thank you for your question.
You ask:

… is the purpose of this life only for those that overcome (the judgment that begins with the house of God)… or are the things that the world goes through going to have a purpose for them at some point, too?

The short answer to that question is: yes, you are right, the things the world goes through is going to have a purpose for them at some point, and that ‘point’ is in the “lake of fire”.
The book of Revelation coins the phrase “the lake of fire”, but the concept of the lake of fire appears way back in Isaiah, and is actually found throughout God’s Word. Isaiah knew what it meant to “dwell in fire”, and he knew very well who would be at home in that fire.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

How many men “walk righteously and speak uprightly”? They are few indeed. The “lake” is a lake because it is the very “few chosen” whose number is so very small when compared to the vastness of the oceans and the seas of humanity. The “fire” of that lake is ‘fire’ because it is the word of God in the mouths of those few chosen, who were participants in the fire we are now living in as we are being judged now.

Jer 5:14  Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

God’s fiery word is working in “the house of God” at this very moment in exactly the same way it will work in all of mankind in that period we know as “the lake of fire”.

1Co 3:13  Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire [ the lake of fire].

That little ‘lake’ will be used by God to purify the waters of every ‘ocean’ and every ‘sea’ on earth.

Rev 19:20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The lake of fire is “burning with brimstone.” It is no coincidence that this Greek word comes from a word connected with God. Here is what Strong’s Concordance has to say about this Greek word which is translated ‘brimstone’.

G2303
θειον
theion
thi’- on
Probably neuter of G2304 (in its original sense of flashing); sulphur: – brimstone.
It is the Greek word ‘theion’ and it is derived from the Greek word theios
G2304
θειος
theios
thi’- os
From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): – divine, godhead.

The few who comprise the “lake of fire” are the Christ of Christ, the anointed of the Anointed, and in Obadiah they are called “Saviors”.

Oba 1:21  And saviour s shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.

“The kingdom shall be the Lord’s”, but it will also be “His Christ’s kingdom”.  “His Christ” is spoken of on several occasions in the New Testament.

Act 4:26  The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Christ’s Christ, according to Christ, is the same as Christ’s body.

Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Act 22:8  And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Col 1:24 Now, am I rejoicing in the sufferings on your behalf, and am filling up the things that lack of the tribulations of the Christ, in my flesh, in behalf of his body, which is the assembly, (REV)
1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

This “boldness in the day of judgment” is here and now for those who will make up that lake of fire.

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14  If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [ are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15  But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or [ as] a thief, or [ as] an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.
1Pe 4:16  Yet if [ any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end [ be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

There is the answer to your question. God’s judgment doesn’t end with us. We are merely the beginning of this great work of grace. It is through us, the body of Christ, that God will fill up the all in all.

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

“The church which is His body” is the fullness of Christ, who fills His Father, who will become “all in all”.

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

What an incredible calling! What greater honor can be bestowed on any man?

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

But let us be honest. The fire of 1Pe 4:12 and the judgment of verse 17 is ruthless to our flesh, and will burn up any and everything contrary to the fires of those words. Those fires are so severe that it takes physical death itself to complete and perfect that work. These are our Lord’s own words.

Mat 19:17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Some of us think Christ was speaking in hyperbole, but the Truth is that even His flesh and blood was not good enough to inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Christ tells us of himself:

Luk 13:32  And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

So the fire of the lake of fire is the Word of God, and since that Word never changes and never passes away, it will be the very same fire then as it is now, and all men of all time will endure those very same spiritual flames. The scriptures are super clear on this subject. All men have the same common experience. The lessons of the trials of this life simply are not sinking into the hearts and minds of all men at this time in the age of this world.

Isa 42:25  Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.

We all live all of these words, and we are all “set on fire round about, yet not knowing it”, but we do not all realize this truth at the same time. It is few indeed who are given by God’s grace to endure the fiery trials of the last plagues of God and not say “Those are ‘things written therein’ which are not for me. Those are words and things written for a man who is far worse than I am. I have volunteered to be in the fire, and I have chosen to serve God, and therefore I will not endure the wrath of God.” That is what 99 and 44/100  percent of mankind believes about the Words of the book of Revelation. But that does not change the truth of these Words of God.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1Co 3:21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22  Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

You ask:

Also, I know the scriptures say that God is not a respecter of persons. Does that mean that after an unbeliever dies, maybe in the spiritual lake of fire they will go through their own trials etc… or does the bible not speak on these topics?

The Bible speaks clearly on these topics, and I wrote a couple of papers in 1999 which deal with this subject. Both are in the Essential Reading section in the upper left corner of the home page. The first is The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit. The other is After The Counsel of His Own Will. Both of those papers deal extensively with the purpose and function of the lake of fire. The Truth is that the lake of fire will be, in the end, the greatest work of God’s grace in all of His dealings with His creatures. God’s elect die in this age of flesh and blood. They die to the flesh first. The lake of fire is called “the second death” for that reason. So in Truth, the lake of fire is the salvation of all who are not part of that “blessed and holy first resurrection”.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

A very dear brother just pointed this verse in Ecclesiastes out to me. This is a verse I will be quoting quite frequently in the future:

Ecc 3:14  I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever [ age abiding]. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him.
Ecc 3:15  That which is has already been, And what is to be has already been; And God requires an account of what is past.

For those who can receive it, God is doing everything, and He is doing it all “after the counsel of His own will”.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

As fantastic as it is for the human mind to comprehend, the Truth nevertheless is that God has had all of the days of our lives “written in His book, long before there were any of of them”, and long before there were any of us.

Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

So then, according to Ecc 3:14, “Whatever God does is age abiding”, and according to Eph 1:11 God is working all things, and according to Psa 139:16, He has had it all planned out and “written in His book” before any of us were ever born. This all accords with all the rest of scripture which teaches that God “called us in Christ before the world began.”

2Ti 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but
Tit 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

I will close with an incredible verse of scripture that tells us that God really is doing what He has always done and is simply in the process of saving all men in the very same fashion and through “one event”. I hope this all helps you to see that God is using the exact same event to save those who will be purified in the lake of fire, as he is using to purify us at this time through the “fiery trials” which “begin at the house of God.” I hope this helps you to see that…

the things that the world goes through [ are] going to have a purpose for them at some point, too.

Ecc 9:2  All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I was reading through the Law paper again, and I had a thought on some of these differences. My observation is that I see clearer and clearer just how different the two laws are. My question is this. When you read through the laws and concepts of the Old, you always read stuff like: ‘You will blessed for your obedience and cursed for disobedience.’ People who had leprosy were usually counted as smitten of God for some reason. When you get to the new and read the parables of the good Samaritan or Lazarus and the rich man, the complete opposite concept is being taught. Here is a person that needs help and the Pharisee walks right by. I know the parable means to view everyone as your neighbor, and in Lazarus and the rich man it means the kingdom will be taken from you and given to the Gentiles. The part I am having trouble with is the concept of the rich man going to hades and the poor man going to Abraham. This is a completely different concept from the old testament by being blessed and increased in wealth for obedience. I really could not place any blame on the Pharisees for not understanding this. The whole old testament law says just the opposite of what Jesus was saying in these parables. What is the meaning behind that? I mean it’s like when Jesus returns is he going to change everything we know and are taught now to something else? If he is I would probably be as dumb- founded as the Pharisees are. Imagine that when Christ returns he is actually preaching a different message than what we know. Would it not be hard to accept that? Isn’t this the same concept that Israel went through when he reformed their law? I hope you understand my point.

God Bless,
M____

Hi M____,
It is good that you are taking the time to read that law paper again.
Thank you for your questions.
You ask:

The whole Old Testament law says just the opposite of what Jesus was saying in these parables. What is the meaning behind that?

You also ask,

If [ Christ is going to change everything we have been taught], I would probably be as dumb- founded as the Pharisees are. Imagine that when Christ returns he is actually preaching a different message than what we know. Wouldn’t it not be hard to accept that? Isn’t this the same concept that Israel went through when He reformed their law?

Yes, that is exactly what Israel went through when He reformed their law, and yes, Christ will certainly be “preaching a different message than what we know” if we are orthodox Christians. But it is not a different message than the one that was taught from the very beginning.
Israel was told that God intended to send them a reformer like Moses. What Moses did was just as radical for that time as what Christ did in His time. What was lawful before Moses was not lawful after Moses. Abraham and any of the patriarchs could build an altar and offer an offering anywhere. After Moses, that was illegal and the offerings all had to be done through the priests at the tabernacle and the temple respectively. That is but one of many changes which Moses made, and God told Israel plainly that another reformer was coming.

Deu 18:18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

From the beginning God told Eve that her desire would be against her husband, but her husband would rule over her. In the very next chapter Christ is telling Cain that sin is at the door, but Cain will in the end rule over sin.

Gen 3:16  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to [ Hebrew, against] thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 4:6  And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto [ Hebrew, against] thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Here we have, for those with eyes that see and ears that hear, the promise of universal salvation at the very beginning. Eve’s submission to Christ, and sin’s submission to Cain, are both symbols of the deliverance of us all from the rebellion against our Creator into which we are born.

Psa 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [ it].

The calling of Seth’s children before the flood, culminating in the few (“eight souls”) who were saved by the ark, and the calling of Abraham’s seed, Israel, after the flood, culminating in merely 120 people being in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, and very few being chosen out of every generation since Christ, all tells us that God is choosing very few in this life, and that He will use those few to bring to him very many in the next life.

Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

While it is true that Christ chastened the Pharisees for their blindness, and while it is true that we will all “reap what we sow,” and “give an accounting of our stewardship, it is nevertheless true that God never intended for the multitudes who came to Christ to see and hear the Truth. It was their calling to crucify Him. They were never intended to believe in Him. They were intended by God Himself to reject and kill Him so you and I could have a savior. It was all by God’s hand and by God’s counsel.

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Act 4:25  Who [ God] by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
Act 4:26  The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28  For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act 4:29  And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Verses 25-26 in Act 4 are quoted out of Psa 2:1-2.

Psa 2:1  Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2  The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [ saying],

Now look at what Christ told the men on the road to Emmaus:

Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

“Moses and all the prophets” is all of the scriptures. They are all expounding “the things concerning Christ” for those whose eyes are opened to know Him.

Luk 24:30  And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed [ it], and brake, and gave to them.
Luk 24:31  And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Luk 24:32  And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

No one will ever know Christ without first “sitting at meat with Him” and spending time in His Word and learning from Him how to rightly divide His Word. That is how “He opens to us the scriptures.”

2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Until that day arrives, we can be walking with Christ and His Christ and not recognize Him until the appointed time for us to see and know Him.

Luk 24:16  But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

When we do finally come to know Him, only then will we realize that He is still here with us “in the flesh” of our brothers and sisters in Christ who are faithful to and obedient to His Words.

Act 22:8  And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The entire orthodox Christian world fails to see what is being said in these two verses of God’s Word. John is saying here what Paul said in Act 2:28. Those who fail to see Christ in “the least of these my brothers,” do not know Christ.

Mat 25:31  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [ his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [ thee]? or thirsty, and gave [ thee] drink?
Mat 25:38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took [ thee] in? or naked, and clothed [ thee]?
Mat 25:39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [ it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [ it] not to me.
Mat 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

“The least of these my brothers” is “specially them that believe”, but it is also “all men… the whole world.” “The least of these my brothers” is all who we ever meet or with whom we are placed in contact. God’s elect consider all men to be their neighbors, their brothers and sons of God.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

None of this is familiar to the modern day Pharisees for the reason given in this verse of Isaiah.

Isa 3:1  For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,

The Old Testament Law says the exact opposite of the New Testament only in letter, and yet that is what it was to those who lived in Old Testament times. When God said “Leave nothing alive that breatheth” that was what He physically meant at that time. But when Christ came and opened our eyes to be able to “compare spiritual things with spiritual, what was “said of old time” was changed. Now we understand that “the kingdom of God is within you.” and “Leave nothing alive that breathes” in that kingdom is also within. We no longer hate our outward enemy, but we “Leave nothing alive that breaths” within.
I hope this helps you to understand why the Pharisees of Christ’s time could not see the things of the spirit.

1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [ them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Christ deliberately “spoke in words which man’s wisdom could not understand.” “There is a change also of the Law”, but that reformation was ordained and prophesied from thebeginning by our Lord who had both dispensations planned from the beginning. He blinds mankind to what He is doing, but He never does change.

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

It is all for this reason:

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

And so we, with Paul can exclaim:

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom [ be] glory for ever. Amen.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

God Bless the IWWB Team… Thank you
As the (HUMBLE) Elect of God, gains knowledge and wisdom – we start to recognize who we are…
1Jn 4:17  In this is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, that as He is, so also we are in this world.
Mat 10:19  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak; for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
Mat 10:20  For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
I have heard you share on….
1Jn 4:2  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;
1Jn 4:3  and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the antichrist you heard is coming, and even now is already in the world.
… and I couldn’t agree with you more – The ‘world’ cannot see or hear the Spirit speaking on the ‘sinful’ flesh.
But I have a question – 2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti- christ.
Isn’t this speaking of the elect?
We know Christ within – Col 1:27  For to them God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,
The world will deny the elect comes with Christ within – in this flesh…
That’s why…
Mat 10:21  And brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child. And the children shall rise up against their parents and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22  And you will be hated of all men for My name’s sake, but the one who endures to the end shall be kept safe.
But we desire (through HIS faith) to listen to him…
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
ALSO – just an observation on a point you made about the Apostle Paul
2Co 12:2  I know a man in Christ fourteen years before (whether in the body, I do not know; or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught up to the third Heaven.
… couldn’t he be speaking about Stephen – since Saul was there?
Act 7:54  And hearing these things, they were cut to their hearts. And they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55  But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking up intently into Heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Act 7:56  And he said, Behold, I see Heaven opened and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57  And crying out with a loud voice, they stopped their ears and ran on him with one accord.
Act 7:58  And throwing him outside the city, they stoned him. And the witnesses laid their clothes down at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60  And kneeling down, he cried with a loud voice, Lord, do not lay this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Act 8:1  And Saul was consenting to his death. And in that day there was a great persecution on the church at Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Anyway – Mike THANKS – God bless
THANKS,
P___

Hi T___,
It is so very satisfying to see that you are coming to ‘see who you are in Christ.’
You ask:

But I have a question – 2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti- christ. Isn’t this speaking of the elect?

Yes, indeed. I have written many letters which state that the phrase, “Christ is come in the flesh” is to be applied both to His coming into our sinful flesh, just as He “emptied Himself” and came into sinful flesh, “made of a woman, made under the law.”

Php 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, (YLT)

If you think Christ’s flesh was somehow different from ours, then you do not know Christ and you have the spirit of antichrist. If Christ could not come in sinful, Adamic, human flesh back then, then how could He be in us now? But He did come in human flesh, and He is in those who recognize that as a fact now. Anyone who denies either is “that spirit of antichrist. This verse you are quoting is a repeat of what John had said in his first epistle:

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Are these verses speaking of Christ in us? Yes they are! Are they also speaking of Christ having come in the flesh, when He was born of Mary? Yes they are also speaking of Christ coming in a body made of “THE flesh,” the one and only flesh of Adam. Christ was both the son of God, through His heavenly Father, and He was also the son of Adam through being “made of a woman, made under the law.”
This is life and death knowledge and understanding. If God says Christ came “in the flesh” we had better simply agree with Him.
You also ask if the man Paul knew who was taken up into the third heaven is Stephen.
I do not think it was, simply because Paul says he knew this man heard words which it is not lawful for men to utter. There is no indication that Stephen had any such conversation with Paul before Stephen’s stoning, and it is certain it didn’t happen afterward. Because of the entire tone of these verses it is very likely that Paul is speaking of the new man in himself as opposed to the old man whose infirmities were in Paul’s own flesh:

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

We do all of our glorying in Christ who is in us. It is right here in this very same epistle that Paul make this statement:

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [ him] no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man [ be] in Christ, [ he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but [ now] I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [ to be], or [ that] he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Christ referred to Himself in the third person when He made this statement concerning His own coming to us through the spirit of His father.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [ that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

It is through “Christ in us” that we know the Father, and recognize the voice of His Son.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Christ is not the holy spirit of God, but the holy spirit of God has been given to Christ, and it is through that gift that Christ is in us.

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine [ the holy spirit] , and shall shew it unto you.

Finally look at what Paul tells us provokes this statement about this man he knew “above 14 years ago.” It’s right here in the very next verses.

2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Hearing ‘words which are unlawful to utter’ is “abundance of revelations,” and Paul is certainly speaking of Himself.
I hope this gives you some guidance in this matter, Tom. I am still a student so please let me know if you think I am overlooking something here.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Good day to you, Elder Mike..

Great to see you and the family in good shape last Sunday. It really was refreshing to see all having been fed such good food of the Lord’s table. It is truly a blessing just to have a small part in The Christ. Despite being troubled with many things in my life now, such as work issues, unbelieving family members, etc. Like Mary, I am always thankful nevertheless that I am being caused to chose the good part, to sit at Jesus’s feet and hear his word. As you know more than most, this life can encumber us with many seeming ‘good’ services which can take us away from the presence of the Lord, as Martha.
I was just studying on the site and one question a brother asked you coincided with a verse I was looking at and a very interesting topic. The Brother said…

I have a question about how the sons of God will be manifested to creation.

Immediately all I remembered was Judas’s own questions (not Iscariot)… what a coincidence!

Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, (not Iscariot), Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

The answer of the Lord bears witness exactly to what you are affirming today in that…

Christ wants us all to first experience that manifestation within, in the spirit, before we will be counted able to be manifested as such to an outward unconverted world. In these days of world wide crisis, it is few indeed who are even concerned with the things that are within, where the real manifestation must first take place. If Christ is not first manifested to us, then we will not be the ones being made manifest to this world as “the sons of God.”

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

I find amazing how the same question being asked in the days of Christ in the flesh is also the question being asked to HIS CHRIST in our days now. Great joy to me that the SAME answer is being given to the Lord’s flock… and His Christ is not thinking above what is written. Jesus Christ manifested to the world in the body of his flesh, but no one knew and received him in the flesh. In the Spirit, he is now manifesting to us who in times past did not seek after him, but sought our father the Devil…

Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. [ the Carnal World within me!]

… even as pre- pentecost, the disciples then and now sought after the flesh of Christ, not God who is Spirit. Jesus’s answer above placed emphasis on the strongest meat you have been putting on my conscience the past few months,  the MEANS/ MODE or the HOW he will manifest to the World within me… that is… If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. This takes place in Loving CHRIST and doing righteousness, which meaning of Love is written above and witnessed again by apostle John..

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

As you emphasized earlier all must take place “ within, where the real manifestation must first take place. If Christ is not first manifested to us, then we will not be the ones being made manifest to this world as “the sons of God.”
Again, solid foundation of Scripture uttered inspired by Apostle Paul… and where this manifestation must first take place.

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

The manifestaion of Risen Jesus in our body of flesh is nothing less than our “dying daily” to the flesh; a death process which is the Judgement taking place upon the house of God now. The Judgment manifested upon our Flesh as apostle Peter and Paul reminded us…

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

A great secret of how God is manifested in that it is all “within, where the real manifestation must first take place.”.. sufferings/ persecutions and trubulations being the signs/ token God gives us of His Manifestation within. Whom the Lord manifests to is he that Love him, he that Love him is he that Keep his WORD, he that God Loves is he that receives chastening and scourging and wrath upon his ungodliness and unrighteousness. Yes, God does SO Love the World, and he is giving his Sons begotten of HIS Spirit a purpose and work to manifest to the entire creation at his appointed time, but that time will be a time of Great Rebuking, Chastening and Scourging, such has not been since the beginning of the world until that appointed time, no, nor ever shall be , a time otherwise known as the Great White throne judgment a. k. a the Lake of fire. The ONE PURPOSE OF HIS MANIFESTATION TO US FIRST, and then HIM in Us to manifest to the rest of the creation is;

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin….
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world….. the means to that end…
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; [1Jn 1:9-10 with Joh 8:44 – ALL HAVE SINNED..] for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

ALL “within, where the real manifestation must first take place.”……

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Lord has seen fit to give us a scroll to bear witness to this great mystery of his ways, and I thank him ALWAYS that His Word in the pages of Scripture has opened my heaven. His Scripture IS a means of this manifestation..

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Yes…. you and your household brought me the Gospel, when I did not seek after you, though you have been stretching your hands all day to disobedient brothers like me around the World. You manifested to me when I did not ask after you. What Great mercy, what Love God has towards us. I am still marvelling and in awe of all and How God is working all according to the counsels of his own will. Yes, it is a great secret that ALL is “within, where the real manifestation must first take place.”…… matter of fact, IT IS THE GREATEST SECRET UNKNOWN TO MEN… that is..

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest…… to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:!!!

His full manifestation to us within is still in earnest, hence it is still “the hope of Glory”, nevertheless..

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 4:17 Here in is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Wow! We will be manifesting to the world, as James/ John/ Paul/ Peter and all God’s elect Sons in that One Spirit. WHAT A CALLING, WHAT AN OFFICE!
I thank you for bearing with me to hear this small thought of mine I have in my email every now and then. It really does open my eyes to a lot of things. Forgive me and correct me wherein correction is needed as you always do in keeping the Doctrine of the Lord pure. I’ve written to my Ma Elder Sandi asking for travel details, etc. of getting to see you and the family (God willing) by end of the year.
Ok, I’ll leave and love you now. Please continue to take care of yourself and the Family. Greet all for me and they are all in my heart.
Your brother in the Christ of our Lord,
A____

Dear Mike

I was reading (As He Is So Are We In This World) and you said this: “Well, what do you have in Christ? I’ve got nine things that I came up here with and if you come up with anything else, I wish you would let me know because I would like to add to this and get just as many things as we can find in the word of God, and I want to put this on the web page so that everyone can see what it is that we are and who we are in Christ.” About six months ago when I was reading scriptures, this from John stood out like never before another one of those “wow” how could I miss this all the these years studying scriptures. This one scripture from John I refer to quite a bit:

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is}.

This is one of the ‘will be’ part of ‘is, was and will be’. Now here is what stood out to me.

1Jn 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Mike, I know that you are my elder brother in Christ; our Father was dragging you through the wilderness before me.  We all have to go through the wilderness to get strengthened and weed out the chaff from the wheat.

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
Joh 17:20 I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.

Peace in Christ
S____

Hi S____,

Thank you for your input and your enthusiasm for the things we have been given in Christ. God has revealed them to us by His spirit, which is His word:

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

I gave a study on this subject in Dallas a couple of years ago, entitled “The Christ of Christ.”
There is much more given to us than many of us even want to acknowledge.
 
One of the reasons we don’t hear very much about all that is given us in Christ is the fact that it is given to us to be as He was in this world, and while few orthodox ministers will openly acknowledge it, the Truth is that we all have before, and many still do, despised the Christ of scripture, whose doctrine from the pen of the apostle Paul went was:

Php 1:29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

God’s elect always have and always will be despised and rejected by the masses of orthodox Christianity and the rest of the world.

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

While there are billions of  ‘Christians’ on this earth, there are very few who are living by, or who even believe, those words. Most Christians decry the doctrine of dying daily as a very discouraging and negative teaching, which needs to be seasoned with the fact that Christ promised to give us “whatsoever we ask of Him.” Of course they quote the Bible to prove themselves to be right:

Mar 11:24  Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them

It is the enemy’s pattern to pit one verse of God’s Word against another verse of God’s word. Consequently they never point out that the very next two verses insist that we must forgive our brothers their sins against us or else our heavenly Father will not forgive us our sins.

Mar 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

What do those verses tell us about the preceding promise to give us ‘what things soever we desire?’ They show us clearly that our faith must be reflected by our way of life, and if it is not, then we actually have no faith with which to receive the things “freely given to us of God.”

1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

And when we are given eyes to see those things which are freely given to us, we find that it includes dying daily and suffering daily for his sake.

1Co 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Php 1:29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

“Dying daily” entails daily pain and suffering, which accompanies the rejection of all men. It is what Psa 107 calls “His wonderful works to the children of men.”

Psa 107:25  For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof.
Psa 107:26  They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble.
Psa 107:27  They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits’ end.
Psa 107:28  Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.
Psa 107:29  He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.
Psa 107:30  Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven.
Psa 107:31  Oh that [ men] would praise the LORD [ for] his goodness, and [ for] his wonderful works to the children of men!

“ Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.” Without the storm to be calmed, we cannot become the grateful children God is bringing us to be. So it all boils down to this truth of what we have been given:

1Co 3:21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

It serves no purpose at all, but is rather counterproductive to point out all the positive promises of life and wealth and blessings in the Word of God and fail to point out that the word of God is a two- edged sword that separates the soul and the body and in the end destroys all flesh and all temporal things. So the very next verse make this clear:

1Co 3:22  Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23  And ye are Christ’s; and Christ [ is] God’s.

I hope you will take the time to read the study notes and listen to the talk in Dallas in 2007 entitled ‘The Christ of Christ.’ We are to Christ exactly what Christ is to His Father, and in Christ, we too, are in the Father.

1Co 3:23  And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So we are in very good hands indeed.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hey, Mike,
Another question: As the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was forever as stated in Heb 10:14…

Heb10:9  Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb10: 11  And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb10: 12  But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb10: 13  From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb10: 14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Mike, the “ever” in verse 14 is the Greek word dienekes which means continuously or continuous. That is why we are a living sacrifice. We are a living sacrifice so the body of sin can be destroyed. So the flesh can be burned up.

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We are his flesh.

Joh 6:55  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6: 56  He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

His offering is a continuous offering and as we are in him and he in us. Is the “Christ” a continuous progression and expansion of the kinsman redeemer? The scope of reconciliation is ever expanding to finally encompass universal reconciliation. That is exactly why love of your brothers is so essential and necessary to be learned. I have literally no one to talk to about these matters that are so important. This is all I seem to be able to think about.
L____

Hi L____,
Yes, the sacrifice of Christ is indeed continued in our bodies “once for all” because our bodies are “His body.”

Col 1:24  Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sak e, which is the church:
Col 1:25  Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 [ Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There are also these verses which state plainly that Christ is come in our flesh:

1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh [“in my flesh,” Col 1:24] is not of God: and this is that [ spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John goes on to clarify his point in this same chapter:

1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

I hope this helps.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike