Thanks for your reply, Mike,

In a previous email you said “God created us as sinning machines.” You can correct me if I am misrepresenting your position. I am going to paste a link to a video done by the same man where he argues that sin is a choice. If we are sinning machines and were created to be that way, it doesn’t seem logical that we could just up and choose to quit sinning. I know the guy in the video would come back at me with, “Yes, we can stop sinning with the help of the Holy Spirit” or something along those lines. But I would like to get your take. Is sin a choice? Or is it not a choice or something that is within our control? Watch the video and tell me your stance.

R____

Hi R____,

I listened to the video, and it is the same argument which is made by all who believe in the false doctrine of mankind being bestowed a will that is free from God’s influence. God did indeed give mankind a will, and you and I do indeed make liteally dozens or hundreds of choices every single day.

Those choices we make, though, are all the result of thoughts we have in our hearts and minds which are manifested in what we say and do. Who do the scriptures hold responsible for our thoughts and our actions? This is not something God is bashful about discussing with us. He is very clear in answering that question, and in doing so He makes it very clear that mankind has no power at all to do what he wants to do with his own free will independent of the will of God:

Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

If our very thoughts are “from the Lord”, then what hope have we of controlling “the answer of the tongue” independent of God’s will? However, for those who still do not want to acknowledge the sovereignty of God in all things, the holy spirit inspired these words just a few verses later:

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Pro 16:5  Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Pro 16:6  By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

If, as the man in the video believes, “sin is a choice”, how then can God say that He makes “even the wicked… for Himself… for the day of evil” which He has predestined for every man. If indeed “sin is a choice” how can God make this statement:

Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days [“of evil” (Pro 16:4)] that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them. (ASV)

I could go on and on showing literally hundreds of verses which demonstrate that the choices we appear to make of our own free will are actually the work of God, for both good and evil. One of many Biblical stories which demonstrate this is the story of the plotting of Joseph’s ten brothers; first to kill him, which was through Judah’s influence, then changed to selling Joseph into Egypt.

It appeared to all Joseph’s brothers to be an act which they chose to do, and indeed Joseph himself accepts the fact that they “meant it for evil”, but look at what Joseph reveals to us to be the real reason why Joseph’s brothers sold him into Egypt as a slave. This is just as true of our evil deeds as it is of Joseph’s ten brothers:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5  And now be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and there are yet five years, in which there shall be neither plowing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and ruler over all the land of Egypt.

That is a huge revelation of the mind of Jesus Christ and His Father for all who are granted to receive it, but the beast, the man of sin, sits upon the throne of God in the hearts and minds of His people, and that beast we all are, that man of sin we all are, is loathe to relinquish his perceived control over that throne by acknowledging that all of his choices are all caused choices which only appear outwardly to be of his own free will.

Joseph repeats the truth of this doctrine in chapter 50 after the death of his father, Jacob:

Gen 50:14  And Joseph returned into Egypt, he, and his brethren, and all that went up with him to bury his father, after he had buried his father.
Gen 50:15  And when Joseph’s brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, It may be that Joseph will hate us, and will fully requite us all the evil which we did unto him.
Gen 50:16  And they sent a message unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
Gen 50:17  so shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the transgression of thy brethren, and their sin, for that they did unto thee evil. And now, we pray thee, forgive the transgression of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
Gen 50:18  And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we are thy servants.
Gen 50:19  And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20  And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

There it is, our choices appear to be of our own free will when in reality “God means [all of our evil deeds] for good”, which will, in the end, produce good in bringing all who are in Adam to Christ (1Co 15:22).

I have written an extensive paper on this false doctrine of mankind being given ‘free will’, and I simply cannot in this e-mail cover the hundreds of verses which are in that paper, but you can read it all at this link:

After The Counsel of His Own Will

That article covers this false doctrine in great depth and uses the scriptures to reveal that we have only the illusion of free will. Send that link to the man who made that video, and show him these verses in Romans 7, and ask him if Paul is lying when he tells us twice that when he sins “It is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.”

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

When Paul says, “it is no more I that do it”, he is not denying that “sin dwells within [him].” Like Joseph with his brothers, Paul twice acknowledges that “sin dwells in [himself]” (vs 17 and 20). What Paul is denying is that he sins because sinning is a free choice. We all sin because we are “captives to the law of sin which is in [our] members.” If anyone wants to argue with that statement, then take it up with the holy spirit of Christ who inspired these words:

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 

All men who have ever lived have sinned, and if they lived long enough, they lusted after women in their hearts. We have no freedom to choose to avoid being sinners. We choose to sin and sell our Lord for thirty pieces of silver, but we do so for one reason, and it has nothing to do with us choosing to do so of our own will:

Act 4:26  The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28  For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

That 28th verse is applicable to every sin that has ever been committed by any man at any time. Our God is sovereign whether we know it or do not know it, and it is He who is “working all things after the counsel of His own will.”

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Your brother in Christ,

Mike

I will go line by line through this letter and give God’s Word and contrast God’s Word with the carnal minded reasoning of your friend. Your friend, as I myself once did and all carnal minds do, fails to see the difference between the ability to choose based upon the causes he himself admits to in this letter, and ‘free’ will, without the influence of any outside cause. No one in his right mind would deny that your friend can choose to drink either orange drink or Pepsi. But for your friend to deny that God is the cause of that choice and already knows what that choice is before he ever makes that choice is blasphemous. God does know, because God is the great Causer of all things which you, or I or your friend will ever do. The same is true for every other person who lives, has lived or who ever will live.

If any of us has an uncaused ‘free’ will then why are we told:

Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

According to the carnal reasoning of your friend, this scripture is a lie. According to the false teaching of your friend, which also happens to also be the same doctrine of all orthodox Christian denominations, the truth is that “The preparations of the heart and the answer of the tongue is [ actually from our free will].”

Again consider the Truth contrasted with the teaching of your friend and orthodox Christian teaching:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Your friend and all orthodox Christianity denies this truth. Here is how they would rewrite God’s Word. “The Lord has created all things good and man’s free will has created evil men forcing upon God a ‘day of evil.'” This lie of the Dragon and the beast which is within your friend and within all orthodox Christianity, denies the Truth of this next scripture also:

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me [ where is anything about man’s fabled ‘free’ will in these verses?]:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else [ Where is this ‘free’ will?].
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In other words:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first [“first,” not ‘only’] trusted in Christ.

Orthodox Christianity teaches us just the opposite. ‘Evil,’ we are lied to, ‘is the result of your own choices.’

In the National Cathedral, immediately following the bombing of the World Trade Towers, Dr. Billy Graham, a man many Christians consider to be one of the most prominent spiritual men of our day, proclaimed before all the world that Isa 45:7 was a lie. “God does not create evil!” proclaimed Dr. Graham. I for one choose to believe God’s Word over the words of Dr. Graham and over the words of all orthodox Christian ministers. But I choose so for the same reason they choose not to believe those words of God. You and your friend and I and all of orthodox Christianity, believe what we believe because “the preparations of the heart in man and the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” It is definitely not from some unscriptural ‘free’ human will. Man’s will is so easily influenced because we were created so weak and carnal. Yes, that is how we were created “in the Potter’s hand.”

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen [“In the Potter’s hand] in iniquity; and in sin did my mother [ Creator] conceive me.
Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 18:2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Jer 18:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Your friend and all of orthodox Christianity would answer, ‘Absolutely not!’ to the Great Potter. ‘What are you saying? Are you saying we are nothing but a puppet on a string?’ is their constant retort to this question by a Potter who informs them that they are deliberately marred in His hand. But what says the Great Potter to man’s beastly claim to some fabled ‘free will?’ Is man indeed a ‘puppet on a string?’ No, the Great Potter gives man no such dignity as a puppet: “Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.”

Dr. Billy Graham, Hank Hanagraff, Pastor Adrian Rogers, Pat Roberston, Paul Crouch and all of God’s widely acclaimed ‘great men of God’ need to get with God and inform Him of their ‘free will,’ which God just seems to have forgotten about in all these and all other scriptures that appear in His Word on this subject.

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Again orthodox Christianity argues with their own Creator that ‘It IS in man himself to choose what steps he will take. It IS in man to freely decide whether to obey God.’ What happened to that orthodox Christian teaching of man’s ‘free will’ here in this verse? Where is the scripture for such a doctrine? Is it to be found in these Words of Truth?

Pro 20:24 Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Pro 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

No, it is not in those verses either. So where is the scripture for the doctrine of the free will of man? Surely here is a verse which proves beyond any doubt that God has given man a free will:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

And what are we told the people “chose” to do?

Jos 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

Is this not surely a Biblical example of the exercise of man’s ‘free will?’ The entire orthodox Christian world point to this verse and proclaims that that is exactly what it proves. But what do the scriptures say about Israel’s choice?; “God forbid that we should forsake the Lord, to serve other gods.” Here is the Truth once again straight from the Word of God concerning this subject of man’s will to do good and to obey God:

Jos 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

Why can they not serve the Lord? The answer is always consistently the same:

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Why is it that man cannot choose to serve God? Did not Israel just do so? It surely appears that Israel chose to serve the Lord. But what really happened? What was the Truth of Israel’s choice to serve God? Here is the truth from the Word of God:

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deu 31:28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
Deu 31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

“You will do evil… after my death you will corrupt yourselves?” What became of Israel’s self proclaimed ‘free will choice,’ “God forbid that we should forsake the LORD…?”

Though orthodox Christianity is unaware of this truth, our Creator is well aware that He has not given them “such a heart, that they would fear me.” “To them it is not given…”:

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

How can God say “It is not given to them to understand,” when in reality, according to orthodox Christianity, that choice is not God’s choice to be making. “Not given to them to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?” Where is room for so much as the thought of ‘free will’ in a statement such as that?

Getting back to your friend’s “free will” to drink orange juice instead of Pepsi, let’s look at some others who, like your friend, thought that their thoughts were their own free, uncaused thoughts. These men certainly did not think that their thoughts that were caused by the Great Cause of all things. Yes, even our choices of what we will eat and drink, just as the ideas of these men, are caused thoughts. “He works all things after the counsel of His Own will.”

The men I refer to are the brothers of Joseph. The thoughts they entertained were these:

Gen 37:19 And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
Gen 37:20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.

Joseph’s brothers would never have admitted at this point that their evil thoughts and desire to slay their brother was “of the Lord.” This is not a discussion about whether to drink some sheep’s milk or some grape juice. This is a discussion about whether to take the life of their own brother. Ruben and Judah finally convince the other nine brothers to make some money on the sale of Joseph instead of killing him. Thus they spared his life. But whose idea really is this entire scenario? Your friend and the entire orthodox Christian World, along with its icon, the great Dr. Billy Graham, have a beast sitting on the throne of God. God’s throne is in the hearts and minds of His people. But as their rhetoric belies, a beastly ‘man of sin,’ who “receives his power and great authority from the Dragon,” sits on God’s throne in “God’s temple, whose temple ye are” and denies that God “works all things after the counsel of His Own will.” Nevertheless, the Word of “God is true and every man is a liar.”

Here now is that word for all who can receive it:

Gen 45:4 And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5 Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6 For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God:

This revelation followed many months of tormenting his own brothers for their own good. Joseph’s brothers were compelled to “worship at his feet” and were “tormented in the presence of the Lamb:”

Gen 42:6 And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph’s brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Gen 42:7 And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, Whence come ye? And they said, From the land of Canaan to buy food.
Gen 42:8 And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him.
Gen 42:9 And Joseph remembered the dreams which he dreamed of them, and said unto them, Ye are spies; to see the nakedness of the land ye are come.
Gen 42:10 And they said unto him, Nay, my lord, but to buy food are thy servants come.
Gen 42:11 We are all one man’s sons; we are true men, thy servants are no spies.
Gen 42:12 And he said unto them, Nay, but to see the nakedness of the land ye are come.
Gen 42:13 And they said, Thy servants are twelve brethren, the sons of one man in the land of Canaan; and, behold, the youngest is this day with our father, and one is not.
Gen 42:14 And Joseph said unto them, That is it that I spake unto you, saying, Ye are spies:
Gen 42:15 Hereby ye shall be proved: By the life of Pharaoh ye shall not go forth hence, except your youngest brother come hither.
Gen 42:16 Send one of you, and let him fetch your brother, and ye shall be kept in prison, that your words may be proved, whether there be any truth in you: or else by the life of Pharaoh surely ye are spies.
Gen 42:17 And he put them all together into ward three days.
Gen 42:18 And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live; for I fear God:
Gen 42:19 If ye be true men, let one of your brethren be bound in the house of your prison: go ye, carry corn for the famine of your houses:
Gen 42:20 But bring your youngest brother unto me; so shall your words be verified, and ye shall not die. And they did so.
Gen 42:21 And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.
Gen 42:22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
Gen 42:23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.

Joseph’s brothers typify today’s orthodox Christians, who to this day despise those who are favored by the Father because they bring to their Father the evil report of their brothers who are taking advantage of their Father’s flock:

Gen 37:2 Joseph, being seventeen years old, was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah, and with the sons of Zilpah, his father’s wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report.

Their “evil report” had to do with something that occurred while they were “feeding the flock.” The word translated ‘report’ denotes ‘slander’. Joseph’s brothers were no doubt slandering their father. So it is today. Those given the charge of the welfare of God’s flock have “an evil report.” It falls the lot of today’s Josephs to bring to their Father their evil report. When this is accomplished, the Father sets his elect apart from all of His other sons with a “coat of many colors.” This coat is required clothing for all those who “come out from among” their Babylonish brothers with their bad report concerning the keeping of the Father’s flock.

This coat represents the fact that God favors those who are faithful to His word. These are those who admit that “God is the savior of all men [ even those who wanted to slay Him, but] specially [ at this time] of those who believe [ and are faithful to His Word- I Tim. 4:10]. These are those who give freely the word to others and do not abuse the flock of their Father. And these are those who, regardless of the consequences, bring to their Father the evil report of their brothers who are abusing the Father’s flock. If we refuse to wear this garment and endure the hatred of those who have not been given this garment, then we are denying Christ and He will also deny us before the Father. It was Joseph’s garments that made him so despised by his own brothers. But it was more than that. Those garments represent the fact that God Himself favors His elect and intends for His elect to rule over their brothers who are “called but are not chosen.”

Gen 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
Gen 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
Gen 37:5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. [ The more revelation God gives His elect, the more they are hated by their brothers who see no need for an elect to be chosen from among the called]
Gen 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we [ the called and the chosen] were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
Gen 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
Gen 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

Christ relates this same story and condenses it all to one short verse:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Joseph’s brothers represent the many called but not chosen Christians. Like the Corinthians they are more into the gifts than the Giver.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [ our] brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [ not chosen] to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Yet what does Paul confess to these “sanctified in Christ Jesus called to be saints” Corinthians?

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

These “Carnal… babes in Christ.. neither yet now are able to bear…” the Truth that “many are called but [ only] a few are chosen.” They believe that salvation lies in denominational affiliation:

1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul [ Protestant]; and another, I am of Apollos [ Catholic]; are ye not carnal?

The very thought of a God who “works all things after the counsel of His own will” is especially offensive to these carnal Christians who think that it is their free will that will decide whether they follow Paul or Apollos. The Truth of course is that even if they do join a denomination and decide to “kill you thinking they do God a service,” they do so only because “It was not you but God who sent me here,” as Joseph reveals to us all.

O. K. Now for your friend’s letter.

J____ wrote:

Hello,

I am having a debate with a fellow that sent me this email. Hoping you can help me out by writing something in response. I greatly appreciate it! Here it is.

Hos 6:7 (NASB) But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me.

According to God, Adam broke the Covenant.

Which God knew in advance Adam would do because He “made him subject to vanity, not willingl y [ on Adam’s part] but by reason of Him [ God], who subjected the same in hope [ of a resurrection in which “all will confess that Jesus is Christ to the glory of God”].

Jesus brought a new one.

What is evident from Scripture is that God lives NOT in our restrictive chronological timeline, but He lives outside of time and can see my birth and life and death at a glance.

Adam did not surprise God by sinning, I accept that.

So you admit that God knew in advance exactly what Adam would do and was in reality “working all things after the counsel of His Own will?”

Remember, sin is not an invention of God or man. Sin as we know is an ancient word describing how we miss the mark as it were. Sin is nothing more than a failure to obey. Sin is not choosing to obey and follow after righteousness. Adam chose not to obey. Because he could.

Adam, as with all who are in him could choose nothing else. The very meaning of the “first man Adam… is of the earth earthy,” meaning that Adam was marred in the Potter’s hand with an earthy, carnal corruptible mind. He and Eve committed every sin known to man before they ever touched the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

1Jn 2:16 For all [ sin] that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

It was Eve’s natural carnal mind that she had been given by her Creator, that caused her to listen to the lies of the serpent and to exercise the “lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life” before she ever touched the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did not become naked after that. Eating of that tree simply made them aware of their already, from the hand of their Creator, naked sinful condition:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I [ the first Adam] was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother [ Creator] conceive me.

Can’t you accept, that your incredible statement about us having no free will is just wrong? It is totally wrong. If we had no free will then we are not responsible for sin and God would need to apologize to the people of Soddom and Gommorah and re- instate those destroyed cities. He would need to apologize to those who never entered Noah’s ark.

And what do you make of this scripture? Has God given you the eyes to see this verse of scripture?

Eze 16:55 When thy [ Jerusalem] sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

You do not believe that Sodom will be “returned to her former estate” along with Jerusalem and her daughters? Do you? So who now should your friend believe? Should he believe your carnal, unscriptural reasonings, or should he believe God’s plain statements of truth that Sodom and Her daughters will be returned to their former estate when Jerusalem and her daughters are returned to their former estate? Who do these verses say was the greatest sinner? Was it Sodom or was it Jerusalem? Are you still so sure that “God needs to apologize to Sodom?” Could J____ possibly be right and could John have a better solution than your idea of God apologizing to Sodom? Could it possibly be true that Christ…

1Jn 2:2 … Is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world [ including the sins of Sodom and her much more evil sister Jerusalem?].

Could it be that you are right and we, as Joseph’s brothers, are not responsible for our sins? Could it be that God sent us into sin, that “many people might be saved alive” as you will see in the resurrection of Sodom and Samaria along with their much more wicked sister Jerusalem? Could it be that God is true and every man is a liar?

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [ NOT exclusively] of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.

Do you “command and teach that “God is the savior of all men?”

If we have no free- will then we need to empty every prison and apologize to the prisoners as they leave. We need to exhume all those who have been executed for crimes and give them a pretty funeral. If we have no freewill, then Hitler was just a poor unfortunate soul.

You obviously see no personal reason for Paul’s telling us:

Rom 9:11 (For the children [ Jacob and Esau] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated [“While he was in his mother’s womb, having done neither good nor evil”].

You don’t believe that do you? You think that Esau was evil because of his own decisions. You believe that both Esau and Joseph’s brothers and Pharaoh, and King Saul and King Ahab and Judas and Hitler could somehow have chosen of their own free will to thwart the predestination of Him “who works all things after the counsel of His Own will?”

We all have a free will. If we had no free- will we wouldn’t be having this debate. Everything you say, I would agree with and vise versa. There would be no war, no strange political notions, no splits in marriage and no splits in the church. Even a game of chess would be desperately boring with inevitable outcomes.

So then you don’t believe this verse of scripture either do you?

Pro 16:33 The lot [ Or chess game] is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

You just do not like Bible verses like that do you? Why don’t you show J____ a verse which says that the outcome of such things as “lots cast into the lap” and the outcome of chess games are beyond the scope of God’s concerns? Where exactly now is that verse of scripture? There seem to be a plethora of Bible verses which tell us that God works all things after the counsel of His own will, that He is aware of every sparrow that falls to the ground, that the very hairs of our heads are numbered by God, but you want us to believe that He cannot or else has chosen not to know what I will choose to do tomorrow because that would be an infringement upon my fabled “free will.”

You confuse God’s ability to see the beginning from the end – and His foreknowledge of everything!

And with our ability to choose and take various paths within the timeline we inhabit.

It is not J____ who is confused. It is you, who refuses to kick the beast of your fabled free will off of the throne of God in your heart. So long as you can continue to convince yourself that God’s ability to see the beginning from the end, and everything in between, is something less than Him “working all things [ good and evil] after the counsel of His own will,” that beastly ‘man of sin rests comfortably where Christ should be as the sovereign in the affairs of men. But you refuse to give up that idol of your heart. To you God just sort of works around our ‘free will.’ It wasn’t really God who sent Joseph as a slave into Egypt. It was really Joseph’s brothers’ ‘free will.’ But God was able to somehow work around their evil free will. Why is it that if indeed we have this ‘free uncaused and uninfluenced will’ that not one person out of all the billions who have ever lived on earth, has ever freely chosen to serve and obey God?

Why is it, that there are many people I know, who were once addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, criminals; all coming from the sewer who are now praising God and are the pillars of their church and community? They had the free will to attend a meeting. They had the free- will to sit through the preaching. They had the free- will to stick their hand up when the call for salvation came at the end of the night. They had the free- will to choose to follow Jesus.

I have also been at meetings where a person is reduced to tears, but still won’t accept the Saviour.

So then you don’t believe these words of our Savior do you? You believe that He was lying when He made these statements don’t you?

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw [ Greek- drag] him…
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you…
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

You don’t agree with Christ do you? The only reason we are saved is really because of our own free will choice to accept Christ as our Savior. So in reality Christ did not choose us we chose Him. Christ has it all backwards doesn’t He? The truth be known Christ can do nothing with out the assistance of our own free will? Is that right? Is that really the way it is accomplished? We choose Christ He does not choose us, unless we first choose Him with our own free will?

A very old friend of mine used to be a miner. He was also the local secretary for the Communist Party. If you think eastern block people can be staunch communists, then you want to meet the old commies from Scotland. They are brutally loyal to the cause.

Anyway, he got saved. Started preaching eventually and became quite an evangelist. He had for years been asking his own old dad if he would accept Jesus as saviour and Lord. His dad always said no. One day, Dan was walking up the street with his dad. God spoke to Dan. He told Dan to ask his dad again if he would accept Jesus as saviour.

Dan obeyed the Lord’s request. He said, Dad, The Lord has asked me just now to ask you, if you will accept Jesus as Lord and saviour?”

His dad replied, emphatically, “NO.”

Immediately, his dad dropped down dead on the spot.

Dan used to always tell that story and the moral of it was, “you can ignore my requests, but you can’t ignore God’s”

God had willed that Dan’s old dad should go to heaven and be with the saviour, but Dan’s old dad refused God, and will now be paying the price for that refusal.

I’m having trouble finding one verse of scripture for which you do not have a carnal anecdote and reason to refuse to believe. This story tells me that you have virtually no use for this verse of God’s word:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die [ did you freely choose to be “in Adam?”], even so in Christ shall all [ including Dan’s old dad] be made alive.
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [ not exclusively] of those that believe.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I guess that story about Dan’s dad just nullifies all these verses of scripture. I guess that in reality Christ’s propitiatory death only covers our sins if we of our own free will choose Christ in this life. J___ will have to decide whether to believe you or all these plain statements of God’s Word.

The point is, he had the choice. He had the choice! God has given us the freedom to choose.

How does your assertion here stack up against these words of our Lord?

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw [ Greek- drag] him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God’s spirit “drags us to him.” Where is ‘free will’ in that verse of God’s Word?
So, if as you assert so emphatically “God has given us the freedom to choose,” then it really was Joseph’s brothers who came up with the idea and executed the plan of sending Joseph into Egypt. They had a choice? And that choice was free of any outside influence? Is that what you are asking J____ and me to believe? Should we believe you or should we believe this:

Gen 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God:

and again:

Gen 50:20 But as for you [ Joseph’s brothers], ye thought evil against me; but God meant it [ the very evil that Joseph’s brothers thought was their idea] unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Right now I choose to submit this reply to you. Then I’m going to stand up and go to the kitchen. Then to the fridge. Then I will pour myself and my son a drink of orange juice. I might change my mind when I get there and have Pepsi instead. I just can’t say, because my freedom to choose might be swayed by whatever looks the best when I get there.

“Your freedom might be swayed by whatever looks the best when you get there?” That sounds a whole lot like Joseph’s brothers to me. This is quite an admission on your part. “My freedom might be swayed by whatever looks the best when I get there.” You don’t sound all that ‘free’ to me. You admit that you can be “swayed by whatever looks good when you get there?” Could God possibly be involved in any of that swaying? Is He even capable of such a thing? Take a look at this verse:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood [ our own free will], but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It is what is in heaven that sways the will of every man who has ever lived. But you don’t believe that simply because “to you it is not given to see the mysteries of the kingdom of God.” God himself has deceived you into believing the false doctrine of “free will.”

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

You don’t believe that, do you? So then of course you won’t believe this verse either:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Did Saul choose these moves of God? Or was Saul, like Pharaoh, “raised up for this very reason?”

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Where was Pharaoh’s ‘free will?’ What could king Saul have done to resist the will of God?

Then I might watch the highlights of the Formula 1 in Melbourne on TV.

Psa 119:45 (King James Version) And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
1Pe 2:16 (New American Standard Bible) Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

So true freedom is being a “bondslave of God.” How does this verse stack up to freely deciding to “watching the highlights of Formula 1 in Melbourne?”

We have the right to be bondslaves of God, if we choose.

I have a free will!

I’m just going to have to decide; will I believe you, or will I believe Christ?

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me drag him…
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

It’s a clear choice. I will indeed make a choice. But my choice will be no more of “flesh and blood” than will yours. No, though it appears otherwise, just as it did to Joseph’s brothers who thought their evil thoughts were of their own free will, the truth remains:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

You need to read After The Counsel of His Own Will. It may open your blinded eyes to the way God actually “works all things after the counsel of His own will” (Eph 1:11). It is obvious that the beast is securely on the throne of your heart at the time of the writing of this e- mail. God’s word tells me that this lie you believe is just that:

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I hope that all these verses of scripture of which you are obviously unaware will give you pause and cause you to understand that the “vessel of clay [ Adam and all who are in him] that was in the Potter’s hand was marred.” It didn’t choose to be marred. It was marred while “in the Potter’s hand.”
I hope this is of some value to you and that you come to see that the multitudes who came to hear Christ thought they were getting the truth from Christ, when in reality He was speaking to them in parables to keep them from ever, in this age, being able to see and understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

That is just one more verse shooting down the ability of these people to resist the will of God which was “I speak to them in parables because it is not given to them to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God.”

2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest [ not] thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand [ is there not] power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

I pray that God will give you eyes to see and ears to hear his Word. Many who believe they are hearing God’s voice are blinded by His parables. While that is my prayer on your behalf the Truth remains:

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

That ‘destruction,’ will endure until “Thy sisters Sodom and Samaria are restored to their former estate.”
I believe those words. Do you?

Mike

Hi, Mike

This subject is close to my heart as I have endured heartache because of taunts by some in our society. I was born out of wedlock. Is there such a thing as an illegitimate child?

God bless,
M____

Hi M____,
You ask: “Is there such a thing as an illegitimate child?” The answer is Absolutely not! We are all born, “Not by the will of man, or by the will of the flesh, but by the will of God”.

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Parents of children do commit “illegitimate” actions, but even those are the “working of all things after the counsel of God’s own will”. So, yes, it is unscriptural to call anyone an illegitimate child. If anything is illegitimate, it is the action of the parents, and even those are caused by God. Here is how Joseph explained this doctrine to his brothers:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5  Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph’s brothers committed a terrible sin against Joseph by selling him as a slave into Egypt. But while Joseph twice causes them to give an accounting of that event, he does not hold them accountable or responsible for what they did. Instead he tells them and you and I that it was not them, but God who sent Joseph as a slave into Egypt.
Paul teaches us the exact same doctrine:

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, i t is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

This is not “passing the buck”; it is simply telling the Truth that it is God who “creates evil… in the city”, and it is God who is “working all things after the counsel of His own will”.

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked [ you and me] for the day of evil [ within each of us].

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amo 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So the sin of having you out of wedlock was not your parents’ doing any more than Paul’s sins were his or Joseph’s brothers’ sins were theirs. They will give an accounting, but they will not be held accountable or responsible for what God had written in their book before they were ever born.

Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.(ASV)

I hope this helps you to see that God is “working all things together [ as only He can] for good to them that love Him and are called according to His purpose.”

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I hope you are granted to understand that “all things work together for good” includes the circumstances of your birth out of wedlock”. It gives you and opportunity for understanding for those you will meet that came into this world in the same circumstances. What comfort you will be able to pass on to them!
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,

Thank you for always answering my questions. Can you please comment on what “possess ye your souls” means!

Your Brother in Christ,
J____

Hi J____,
Thank you for your questions.
You ask:

Can you please comment on what “possess ye your souls” means?

Here is that full verse:

Luk 21:19  In your patience possess ye your souls.

This verse is simply an admonition from our Lord to be patient in all things, knowing that, as He tells us throughout His Word, “No one can come to [ Christ] except the spirit draw [ drag] him.”

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The masses cannot understand Christ’s parables simply because God Himself has blinded them.

Mat 13:10  And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11  He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

And as Paul tells us “all things are being worked after the counsel of God’s own will.”

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

If God really is “working all things after the counsel of His own will”, then anything we become impatient with is really being impatient with God.
All who are new to the truth that God creates evil and is working all things, always wonder why there are any admonitions such as the one you ask about? The answer to that question is as frustrating to the natural man as is the doctrine of God’s sovereignty, and the answer is that it is God who has ordained that we would all be saved “through the foolishness of preaching.”

1Co 1:21  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

The world’s estrangement from God is “by the wisdom of God.” It is “in the wisdom of God” that we are all made to be sinners who are estranged from our own Creator, and it is only by Him dragging us to him against the will of our old man that we are converted. Then to add insult to the injury of our old man who believes in his own free will, we are told that our salvation is ordained to come only “by the foolishness of preaching”.
So whenever we see words in scripture which seem to say that we “possess our souls” or we “choose life” or we “save a soul from death”, we must never forget that the truth is never the truth unless it accords with “the sum of God’s Word.”

Jos 24:15  And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [ were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Jas 5:20  Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

It so happens that “the sum of God’s Word” teaches that when we are told that we have done some dreadful sin, that it was not really us doing it at all:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5  Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet [ there are] five years, in the which [ there shall] neither [ be] earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
Rom 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Joseph twice told his brothers “You sold me into Egypt”. But then he immediately adds the truth which is completely foreign to the mind of the natural man, and which no natural man can receive. He tells them that it was not really them who sold Joseph into Egypt at all, but it was God who had sent him to Egypt.
Understanding this, it behooves us to be patient in all things, knowing that all things, including our patience, are of God even as God Himself uses the words “in your patience possess ye your souls.”
I hope this helps you to see that while God speaks to us as if we were free to choose, the truth always is that our choices are caused by God, either by good spirits or by evil spirits.
This is all dealt with in much greater detail in our paper entitled After The Counsel of His Own Will, found in the Essential Reading section of iswasandwillbe. com. It is in the upper left corner of the home page.

Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I have a friend with whom I have been sharing God’s truths. He has been reading the works of Ted Weiland and has asked my opinion of them. I have pointed out a few differences with scripture to A___. We disagree over the matter of free will. I have told him that “all choices in life are NOT predestined by God, but God did create man with the ability to choose, but all choices have to be CAUSED either by the carnal mind or by the Spirit of God. Ted needs to get more information before he comes to any theological conclusions.”
But don’t we all need to do that and I certainly include myself. We are all in “the same boat” trying to get to the truth of scripture.

In His Service,
M____

Hi M____,
Thank you for sharing with me your letters to your friend concerning the writings of Ted Weiland.

Your spiritual insights into the sovereignty of God, and the Biblical doctrine of the salvation of all, are much more in line with scripture than are Ted Weiland’s writings.
Near the end of your letter to your friend you make this statement:

All choices in life are NOT predestined by God, but God did create man with the ability to choose, but all choices have to be CAUSED either by the carnal mind or by the Spirit of God. Ted needs to get more information before he comes to any theological conclusions. But don’t we all need to do that and I certainly include myself. We are all in “the same boat” trying to get to the truth of scripture.”

The emphasized words in all caps are yours, and I will ask you to consider a few verses of scripture in light of what you say in this same paragraph about “all of us are in the same boat trying to get to the truth of scripture”.
You admit that “all choices have to be caused either by the carnal mind or by the spirit of God.” Now since, in the very same sentence you state, “All choices in life are NOT predestined by God…” and then you go on to say that all choices are “CAUSED either by the carnal mind or by the spirit of God”, you are in effect saying that any choice that is not caused by God is free from God’s sovereignty, because you just said “all choices in life are NOT caused by God…” If God is not the “cause” of the choices made by the carnal mind, then who or what does cause the choices of the carnal mind? Do you and I then become sovereign over the choices of the carnal mind? Is it Satan who is sovereign over our carnal mind and its evil thoughts and choices? Is that what the scriptures teach?
Put another way, can any man change what his carnal mind tells him to do, and if not, then why not? The carnal mind is what is ruling the rulers of this world, and there are very few who have the mind of Christ. If the carnal mind is sovereign over carnal thoughts, then there is very little over which God is sovereign.
So what do the scriptures teach about the thoughts of the carnal mind? Let me give you just a few scriptures to consider, and then get back to me concerning this subject. Look at who the scriptures teach is the Creator of wicked men:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Tell me how God can make a wicked man for the day of evil and not be sovereign over, and the very Creator of, evil? So does God really create evil thoughts in the hearts and minds of evil men? What do the scriptures teach right here in this same chapter?

Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Is that not exactly what Joseph told his brothers concerning “the preparations of their hearts” when they decided to “kill him and see what comes of his dreams” of ruling over his brothers? Here is what Joseph told them after tormenting them mercilessly for many months, accusing them of being spies who had come to spy out the land:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5  Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years [ hath] the famine [ been] in the land: and yet [ there are] five years, in the which [ there shall] neither [ be] earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

Twice Joseph forced his brothers to “give an accounting” of the fact that they had sold him into Egypt. “You sold me hither”. But upon whom does Joseph place the accountability and the responsibility for selling him into Egypt? Let’s read it again:

Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph repeats this message in chapter 50.

Gen 50:18  And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we [ be] thy servants.
Gen 50:19  And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20  But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

There it is for those who are given to receive it. All evil thoughts of all men of all time are “meant by God unto good… to save much people alive” through the mercy of His elect whom the world, typified by Joseph’s own brothers, hates and wants dead. Here is how the apostle Paul puts this Truth while speaking to the Gentile converts of Rome:

Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So it was and is all predestined by God. Even the wicked and even every “preparation of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue is from the Lord”.
Now let’s go to the New Testament and see how this doctrine fares there. Here is what the holy spirit teaches concerning our sins and our thoughts which precede those sins:

Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

These are the verses which are commonly used to prove the point you make:

“All choices in life are NOT predestined by God…”

But is that really what is being said here in James? Here is this same section of James in other versions, which are a far better translation of what is being said:

Jas 1:13
(ALT)  Let no one say, when tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God is incapable of being tempted by evil, and He Himself tempts no one.
(ASV)  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
(BBE)  Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test:

Those are just the first three translations in my e- sword ‘compare’ module. They all show that the Greek says that God Himself does not tempt us, but God Himself does send evil spirits to do that for Him. Is God therefore not the Creator of those thoughts and those evil spirits and those evil men? Of course He is, and He makes no apologies for it being thus:

Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

“I create evil… wicked men for the day of evil… I do all these things”. Our ways are not our own ways. They are the way God makes us, either for good or for evil, and for the masses of mankind in this age, it is for evil that God has created them and the very “preparations of their hearts are of the Lord” (Pro 16:1).
Since God Himself does not tempt us, then how exactly does He work those temptations? Here are a couple of examples of how that is done. Notice what appears to be a contradiction in scripture for the natural man and for all detractors of God’s Word. In 2Sa 24 we read this:

2Sa 24:1  And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

How did the Lord move David to do something the Lord himself had commanded never to be done without first taking a tax of the people? Here is how He tempted King David:

1Ch 21:1  And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

So God works through spirits to tempt us. But as Joseph told his brothers, as Isa 45:7 tells us and as Pro 16:1 and 4 tells us, it is “not you but God” who causes us to sin and to choose to sin against Him and His elect.

Here are a couple more verses which make this point:

Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

This is not “God himself” but Christ, who was the “I Am” of the Old Testament.

Pro 20:24 Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Pro 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
Amo 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

“Evil in the city” is worldwide, and it is all what “the Lord had done” by causing us all to sin, by making us all “by nature… children of disobedience… children of wrath, even as others”.

Eph 2:1  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6  For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7  In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

Let’s allow the scripture themselves to tell us why we do evil things which we know we should not do and which things we don’t even want to do. Let’s let the scriptures tell us whether “All our choices are… predestined by God”. Here is why we commit every sin we commit:

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [ how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

There it is just as clear as it can be stated, and again, it is twice stated, just as Joseph twice told his brothers, that it was not they who sold him into Egypt, but it was God. So who then created and sustains the law that “when I would do good evil is present with me”? Here is what the scriptures teach:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

So are “all of our choices predestined by God?” What do the scriptures teach concerning “all things” we do?
Here it is:

Psa 139:16  Your eyes have seen my unformed substance, and in your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.

So these e- mail exchanges and the days in which they are being written between you and A____ and this exchange with me, were “all written in God’s book, and all the days that were ordained for each of us, when as yet there was not one of these days’. Here is how Paul puts it:

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

“All things” are being worked by God, who has “predestinated” us to obtain an inheritance, according to the “all things He is working after the counsel of His own will”. That includes “the preparations of the heart and the answer of the tongue” of all men of all time… “I the Lord do all these things”.
Let me know what you think. I too, am ” trying to get to the truth of scripture.”

Your brother in Christ,
Mike
 

Mike,

A man asked me the question, “How can God make us accountable for our actions if we do not have free will?”

I would appreciate your comments.
J____

Hi J____,

Thank you for your friend’s question. He asks, “How can God make us accountable for our actions if we do not have free will?”
God does not hold us accountable for anything we do. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn’t us who commit any sin we commit. It is rather “a law working in our members… It is not I that do it.”

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [ how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. “It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me… the law of sin and death.”

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who sustains that law “in our members”? The person who sustains “the law of sin and death… in our members” is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that “law is sin and death”? Here He is:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

There is but “one lawgiver”, and it is He who determines who will be saved and who will be destroyed. He does this because it is He “who is working all things after the counsel of His own will”. Every day of our lives is “written in His book before that are any of them” so there simply is no scripture to support the false doctrine of free moral agency. We choose only what God causes us to choose, and there is nothing “free” about our choices. It cannot be stated any clearer than this:

Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Pro 20:24  Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Jer 10:23  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps
Amo 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

All any of us do is what Joseph’s brothers did and what the unjust steward did. We must all simply “give an accounting of our stewardship” and confess that we “are the man” who sold our Savior for thirty pieces of silver while claiming to be Abraham’s seed. The words ‘accountable’ or ‘responsible’ are not to be found in scripture. God makes it abundantly clear that He is the One responsible and accountable for “working all things after the counsel of His own will”. All the “evil in the city” is God “working it after the counsel of His own will”.
Joseph’s brothers would have sworn they had free will and that selling Joseph into Egypt had been their idea, just as your friend feels. The unjust steward felt the same way, and we all feel that way, but what is the real Truth of this matter? Here is what the scriptures teach from Genesis to Revelation:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I [ am] Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt.
Gen 45:5  Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years [ hath] the famine [ been] in the land: and yet [ there are] five years, in the which [ there shall] neither [ be] earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

“I am Joseph whom you sold into Egypt… be not grieved that you sold me here… it was not you that sent me here, but God…” So it is with all that men call “free will”. The Truth of the matter is that God is “working all things”, the good and the evil, “after the counsel of His own will”, and it is He and He alone who is responsible for the outcome of “all things”. That outcome is, of course, a very good one. Here it is:

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then [ cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [ that] shall be destroyed [ is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [ him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That is truly the good news of the gospel.

The difference between ‘accountable’ and ‘giving an accounting’ was pointed out to me by a brother in an e- mail exchange, which you can read at this URL: http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ The_ Difference_ Between_ Responsibility_ And_ Giving_ An_ Account. php

Read that exchange, and if you still have a question then please let me know.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,

Sorry, I hit the wrong button. I just want to say thanks for taking the time on my question Sunday about being accountable and sovereignty. You said we give account, and that might help my detractor, but I doubt it, for it is pretty much what I told him. I have read the account of Joseph and his brothers, and it is full of meaning. They gave an account not in the way we are taught about giving account as we are brought up with hellfire and damnation understanding. Everyone clearly understands why they are being judged and giving account when they go up to Joseph to get some grain. I noticed 43:11 says they had some food, fruits and nuts and almonds but obviously not enough to sustain them, but enough to bring him a gift. I looked up the word accountable in the dictionary, and it really leaves the impression of being responsible. But the sum of God’s word is Christ. Is not also baptism immersion into Christ a daily experience as we also die daily. We are coming forth anew everyday. I say that for the reason that I get asked if I was baptized witht the holy ghost. And when I answer, I get told that that happens once and then after that God does whatever He wants, which we know God is working all things after the counsel of his own will. I want to wish you all the best, and have a great conference. May God be with you and all who are speaking. I hope to be joining you via the internet. Peace and love to you both.

Your bro in Christ Jesus,
D____

No problem D____,

I hit the wrong button all the time and send out half-finished e-mails right in the middle of a half-finished sentence, and I just have to apologize and finish the e-mail.

I have gone to great lengths in the past to point out the fact that Joseph causes his brothers to GIVE an accounting of what they had done. That is all God wants you and me to do. Joseph did not HOLD his brothers ACCOUNTABLE; he simply brought them to see themselves as the instruments of evil God has created us all to be. We are all “marred in the Potter’s hand”. What do we think that means the Potter’s hand has formed then? It means the Potter has formed a sinning machine which He has designed for the very purpose of destruction so that the spirit can be saved in the day of the Lord.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Christ told the steward, “Give an accounting of your stewardship…”

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luk 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

And so we are again told:

1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest [to himself as well as others]: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

“All things come alike to all:”

Ecc 9:1 For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, [are] in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as [is] the good, so [is] the sinner; [and] he that sweareth, as [he] that feareth an oath.
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

God really is “working all things after the counsel of His own will,” but I know I am “preaching to the choir,” so I will give you a break and get on to another letter.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

First I hope all goes well with you and Sandi and all that are around you. I wish you God’s blessings and wisdom in your work. Mike, I am still busy with translating your work into Dutch. I think I have almost enough to start up the website, and God willing, I will do so on short notice.
I have translated the first papers on “After the Counsel of His Own Will”. I’m at the part of Jacob and Esau now. Here I found something that is unclear to me. I found this in the paper: 

Both are born of the elect. But just as Judas despised his elect position as one of Christ’s twelve disciples “whom also he named apostles” (Luk 6:13), and traded his eonian birthright for thirty pieces of silver; so Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of soup.

The fact of the matter is, that they did do what they did, but they did what they did because it was “After the Counsel of His Own Will”. As I understand it, Judas was made to despise, was made a vessel of dishonor, was subjected to the work of Satan, who also did what had to be done. Both Judas and Esau were subjected to the sovereignty of God…. and did all because they were… like Pharaoh, created for the purposes they served.

Can you believe that I am already looking forward very much to the moment these things will be clear to me. I know that there will be a time that God will make me understand in full… maybe not in this clay- vessel… but there will be a time.

In Christ connected,
R____

Hi R____,
Thank you for this update. I find this all to be very exciting.

You ask about why Judas and Esau chose evil over good. Your analysis is exactly right. They both do exactly what they were caused to do by God Himself. Here is the last paragraph of that section of that paper:

He was not rejected because he chose to despise his birthright, but he chose to despise his birthright “that the purpose of God might stand…” (Rom. 9:11). His choice was a God- caused choice “that the purpose of God according to election [ before he was born] might stand…” Every choice made by either Jacob or Esau was a caused choice… caused by “principalities [ and]… powers in the celestials” (Eph. 6:12).

What you may be struggling with is my use of the words ‘choose’ or the word ‘choice.’ We must be careful never to deny that we all do make choices by the hundreds and thousands every day. That we do make choices is manifestly true, and we must never deny this truth. The scriptures even agree with this truth:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [ were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

What the natural man cannot see is the truth that every single choice any man has ever made in all of mankind’s history has been a caused choice, caused by the great Cause of all. There is not exception to this rule. This is both a scriptural and a scientific fact. Nothing happens that is not caused to happen:

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Does this mean virtually everything? What do the scriptures teach?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So if ever you see me pointing out that we do make decisions, please remember that I am never, Lord willing, saying that we do so apart from the sovereign all powerful, hand of God “working all things after the counsel of His own will.”
I hope this is of some help to you. Please keep me posted when you get your site up. It will be the first time these writings have been translated into another language.
God bless you both as you strive through Him to be of service to Him.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,
   I used to think I understood this verse when I believed in free will:

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
But God has graciously shown me this is true:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Now this verse in Genesis has become quite confusing. I was hoping you could share some scriptures to help me understand it.
Thanks,
M_____

Hi M____,
I am cutting and pasting a letter I have already written on this subject.
God tells us in no uncertain terms that He is sovereign over all things good and evil. He tells us “it is not of him that wills but of God who shows mercy.” He tells us “It is God that works in us both to will and to do his good pleasure,” and He tells us that He “is working all things after the counsel of His own will.” He even goes so far as to say that “The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue is from the Lord” (Pro 16:1)

Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

So while we do indeed make thousands of decisions every day, and while I am choosing out each key to use on this keyboard, the Truth is that every move of each of my fingers is caused by, and is in reality, the working of all things after the counsel of His own will. In other words, as one of my readers who came to see all of this put it, “our wills, for good or evil, are in reality wrapped up in God’s will.” That is what the scriptures in their totality teach, and that is why we are told:

Psa 119:160  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever. (ASV)

God has given some the ability to accept and to take comfort in His sovereign working of all things after the counsel of His own will. It will be given to all “in their own order.” When I was first confronted with this concept I resisted it bitterly for over two whole years. Like all of us at first, I could not give up my fabled “free moral agency,” and as long as I retained that attitude, the beast within was still on the throne of my heart which throne Christ will one day rightfully possess. But as long as the “abomination that makes desolate” sits on that throne in God’s temple, “which temple ye are,” then that is what God is working in each and every one of us.
Read the paper below, and if you still have questions about why we are told “it repented the Lord that he had made men,” then please feel free to let me know.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike

I just read an article on tithing and in it I came across this:

“And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your TITHES, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, YE and YOUR HOUSEHOLDS, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee” (Deut. 12:6-7). Wouldn’t the use of “freewill” in this verse indicate that we do have free will according to the Bible?
Thanks, A____

Hi A___,
I am not trying to be trite or in any way offend you, but I want you to realize that God speaks to us in terms we can understand. Do you think that because God asked Adam “where are you,” that He wanted Adam to know that He, God, had no clue as to which tree Adam was hiding behind?
I truly hope that we can continue this discussion, but you haven’t even commented on any of the dozens of scriptures to which I referred to you showing that we have and make choices, and yet those choices we make are all caused to be made by the Lord Himself.

Isa 63:17  O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants’ sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
Jer 10:23  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

You haven’t commented on the fact that Joseph’s brothers thought that their choice to sell Joseph into Egypt as a slave was of their own ‘free will,’ while it was actually “of God.” You haven’t commented on “it’s not of him that willeth..” Not one scripture but dozens, “the sum of thy word,” drive home this Truth. And that is where Truth is to be found:

Psa 119:160  (ASV)  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.

To make this point in another way, I want you to read this section of scripture, and tell me whether the scriptures teach that God repents. Your answer to this will let us both know whether we need to continue this discussion.

1Sa 15:29  And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
1Sa 15:30  Then he [ King Saul] said, I have sinned: [ yet] honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD thy God.
1Sa 15:31  So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.
1Sa 15:32  Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
1Sa 15:33  And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
1Sa 15:34  Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
1Sa 15:35  And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

Now I want you to tell me why verse 29 says:

“… he [ the Lord] is not a man, that he should repent.”

And yet verse 35 tells us

“… the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.”

The answer is that God speaks to us in terms we can understand without really being ignorant of Adam’s whereabouts and without having to go to plan B because neither Adam nor King Saul had turned out just like plan A had anticipated.
I will quote Eph 1:11 again and again ask you to read the paper After The Counsel Of His Own Will:

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God may tell you to bring an offering of your own ‘free will,’ He may say ‘Adam where are you,’ and He may even say that He ‘repented for making King Saul king over Israel.’ But the overwhelming weight of “the sum of His world” is that He is “working all things after the counsel of His own will,” and ‘it is not of him that willeth but of God who either hardeneth or shows mercy.’
I pray that you can see that ‘no scripture of prophecy is of its own interpretation because holy men of old spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost’ and the Holy Spirit is not schizophrenic. I pray that you can see that “the sum of thy word is Truth.”
Mike >

Mike,

Hey, I read your article about how God is in Control of Everything….

SO, let me make sure I understand you here… you are saying that YOU believe that EVERYTHING that happens in life, both good and evil, [ are] God’s doing?

I have never believed that. I think that God and Jesus are up in Heaven, and the ONLY thing we have down here is the Holy Spirit to help us as Believers. Therefore, all the unbelievers like I used to be, are able to live a sinful life against God’s Will, and basically have an “equal” control against us in the world and all its happenings.

Help… thanks,

G____

Hi G____,

You say “Help” and “Thanks.”

My experience has been that whenever someone tells me what they believe without bothering to give the scriptures to back up their convictions, they generally aren’t really looking for any help. Most people have their minds made up before they ever open their Bibles. From that point on, they are simply attempting to make the scriptures say what they want them to say. Then when someone like me comes along and shows them scriptures like:

Pro 20:24 Man’s goings [ Good or evil] are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue [ Good or evil] , is from the LORD.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

… they can’t grasp it.

Did you catch that? “The Lord hath made … the wicked…” You have just told me that you don’t believe that. That is fine. It is certainly not my business to make you believe something that maybe God Himself doesn’t intend for you to see or understand at this time. Nevertheless the scriptures are all there:

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

According to that scripture, God even controls the lottery. I did not write it, I just quoted it. Now I could go on and write another After The Counsel of His Own Will, attempting to get you to see something that God Himself has blinded your eyes to. It would be an easy thing to quote another 30 nor 40 pages of scripture and not even touch on the one in my previous paper, showing that man has no ‘free’ will. ‘Will?’ Oh yes. Man has a will to do evil. It was God Himself who made man “subject to vanity.”

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made [ By God] subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Yet you tell me:

Therefore, all the unbelievers like I used to be, are able to live a sinful life against God’s Will, and basically have an “equal” control against us in the world and all its happenings…

You believe a whole lot like Pilate just before he ordered the crucifixion of Christ:

Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

Just like Joseph’s brothers when they sold Joseph into slavery in Egypt, you, Joseph’s brothers and Pilate actually believe that they had the ability to carry them out as a the result of “free” will. But who do the scriptures reveal as the architect of this, the worst crime of all time?

Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I formthe light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

But you don’t believe that. And you call yourself a ‘believer.’ What you ‘believe’ is what you have been taught. I have had many tell me what they ‘believe.’ I have yet to receive a letter showing me the scriptures that say ‘I, God, have made man capable of doing good. I, God, have imbued man with free will.” Telling someone to “Choose ye this day whom you will serve” in no way whatever denies that God had already decided that Pilate’s ‘choice’ would be to crucify Christ. And such a scripture in no way denies that God has already decided every ‘choice’ Joseph’s brothers or you or I will make day by day.

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

To man, it seems like it is his choices that make everything happen as it does. That is the same mentality that would have you to believe that a gun can kill someone.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

But you beg to differ with the Holy Spirit here. You would rewrite this to say that “Pilate has equal control against Christ in the world and all it’s happenings.”

Here is not just “what I believe”; here is what God says:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

And here, on the other hand, is what believes

Therefore, all the unbelievers like I used to be, are able to live a sinful life against God’s Will, and basically have an “equal” control against us in the world and all its happenings.

Go ahead, choose which of those statements you “freely” wish to believe, with no influence from God for either good or evil.

But when that choice is made, this scripture will still be true:

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

“Not willingly…” “Not of him that willeth…” Are you getting the picture? The single most succinct scripture in all the Bible, telling us why “God creates evil,” is this:

Gen 50:20 But as for you [ Joseph’s brothers, you, me, and all of Adam’s progeny], ye thought evil against me; but God meant it [ the evil of all mankind] unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

I hope I haven’t offended you with all these scriptures. They certainly do offend most orthodox Christians. These verses are avoided like the plague in the churches of our nation. But they are Truth.

I hope I have been of some help.

Mike