Mike,

When you kill yourself, where are you?
Where do you go…. to sleep… or does the breath go back to GOD…. then the body waits for Jesus to come and be resurrected.

P____

Hi P____,

Thank you for your question concerning where we go when we die.
You ask:

Where do you go…. to sleep… or does the breath go back to GOD…. then the body waits for Jesus to come and be resurrected?

That is right, you go to sleep, and you await the resurrection totally unconscious of the passing of time and events.
The dust returns from whence it came. There was no physical body before birth. We all come “out of the ground” and we go right back to the ground, because that is what we are.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

What we are is dust, with the life of the breath of God within us. When He removes His life giving spirit we die and return to the dust of the earth, and His spirit returns to where it was before He put it into our bodies of dust.
So we are physical bodies having a spiritual experience. We are not immortal spirits having a physical experience. In fact we are told that if there is not a resurrection from the dead, then “they… which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished”. That would be a lie if indeed we are really immortal souls.

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

“If in this life only we have hope in Christ”, then every word in those five verses is a lie. But they are not a lie because Christ is raised up from among the dead, those who are asleep in Christ, will be resurrected back to life, and in another age even those who have died in their sins will be purified and will repent of their sins and will be saved from their sins and the wages of those sins.

Please let me know if I can be of any service to you if this question has any personal application.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,

This goes with an earlier question I had regarding dying under old and new covenant. This guy seems to always have a comeback refute. So I don’t know what to believe. Can you clear this up? Thanks, J____

“I understand that you can explain away whatever you wish by simply calling it “symbolism”. This is why you cannot accept the story of Lazarus at face value because you cannot accept the idea that souls do not sleep in the grave. Since that doctrine is the lens through which you see every passage of Scripture, it is no wonder you are where you are.

However, let me lay another passage on you.

“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.” 1Pe 3:18-20″

Hi J___,

Your preacher friend, like all orthodox Christians, has no use for Christ’s words. Here are the words of Christ:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Listen to your preacher friend, and you will remain confused. Listen to Christ, and ignore the falsehoods of orthodoxy, the ‘Great Harlot,’ of Rev 17 and 18, and God’s Word will never contradict itself as your friend seems to believe.

Christ says “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven…” Peter says not even David is in heaven. Paul tells us that if there is no resurrection, then the dead in Christ are perished. Your preacher friend and all orthodox Christian ministers say just the opposite. We must all decide who we will believe. It is not the few who are deceived. “Many shall come in my name… and shall deceive many.” Yet the greatest single religion in the world, the orthodox Christian church, tells us this is not talking about them. Who, pray tell, do they think the “many coming in My name” is talking about? Are we to believe that this statement of our Lord is a reference to the Muslim or Buddist religions? You decide that one for yourself.

Now as for the “spirits in prison” your preacher asks about, these were the spirits of the people of Noah’s time. That is why we are told that this took place “in the days of Noah while the ark was preparing.” With not one scripture to validate his claim, he boldly proclaims to you:

Well, look here! Jesus is preaching to those who died during the flood. Talk about your deadcongregations!

Does this man think that it was by some spirit other than Christ who preached through Noah for one hundred and twenty years? The people of Noah’s day were captives and prisoners to sin just as much as were the people of Christ’s day.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

This preacher, and all orthodox Christian preachers, deny that Christ died for us. This man is telling you that Christ was never dead. He is telling you that in reality no one has ever died for our sins. Christ, of all people, never died at all. The claim, with no scripture at all behind it, is that he was in hell preaching to fallen angels, and at the same time He was in paradise with the thief on the cross. These people must think that Paul was just confused when he made that statement about the dead in Christ being perished if there is no resurrection.

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ areperished.

Paul saw the Truth about the need for a resurrection. “If Christ be not risen… then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.”

You can use the Google search engine on the web page by typing in ‘spirits in prison’ to pull up more articles on this subject.

I hope this helps you to find the answers to your questions. If you will do this first, it will help me to keep up with my e- mails, and it will also help you in your own personal studies. If you cannot find anything on the subject, then by all means let me know.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I don’t know if you will get this message, but I have a question. There is a scripture that says Abraham rejoiced to see my day and was glad (Joh 8:56). How can he rejoice when he is dead in the grave? Please explain. Your website has been a blessing to me in ways you may not ever know. God bless you and keep you until he is finished with you.

M____

Hi M____,

Thank you for your question. You ask how Abraham could rejoice to see Christ’s day when Abraham is dead in the grave?

The first thing to notice is that Christ did not say ‘Abraham is rejoicing’. He said, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day.” Notice also that Christ said this right after saying, “If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

“I Am” is the name of the God of the Old Testament. Christ is I Am, and therefore He knew Abraham intimately. He knew Abraham would rejoice to see what He would do when He came in the flesh.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now you and I could do what these “Jews which believed on Christ” (vs 30-31) did and call Christ a liar for saying that He is ‘I Am’ and that anyone who kept His saying would never see death. After all, Christ Himself died, and all of His apostles are dead. Nevertheless, just as Abraham saw Christ’s day and rejoiced in it, in the same spiritual manner, those who keep Christ’s sayings will never see death for this reason.

Luk 20:37  Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luk 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

That is why physical ‘death’ is referred to as sleep throughout the New Testament.

Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12  Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13  Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14  Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

So yes, Abraham is physically dead, but he is alive to God, and just as Jesus rejoiced to see what He would be doing in His apostles and in all of His saints down through the generations. What He is now doing in you and in me, long before you and I were born, so too, in that same manner of faith, Abraham rejoiced to know that Christ would come to save all men and to make His seed “as the sand of the sea”.

Joh 17:20  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

As Heb 11 also points out, Abraham died having the faith that someday he would see Christ.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I hope this all helps you to see how Abraham, “the father of the faithful”, was able to “see Christ’s day and rejoice in it” while he was yet alive, long before Christ came into this world. I hope it also helps you to see that Christ was the God of the Old Testament, and knew Abraham much better than Abraham knew himself.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Often times since being given the faith of Christ that I have now been given, I am asked a question that tends to boggle folks’ minds when answered with the Word of God. “So, what happens when we die?”

Oh, the dreaded “D” word! Not damn or dang, but death. Dying, the inevitable truth that we all will face, is what drives all fear. Many a man has met this stone cold truth, but one Son of man and of God stood in death’s grip and was laughingly yanked away.

In fact, we all are dying from the womb and indeed die daily, physically. The difference between dying now physically to the world or spiritually to the new man, is what sets a part those who NOW are the Sons of God versus those who are coming along at their appointed time later.

During this study, we will all delve deeper into the dwelling place of the Lord in a way that, Lord willing, awakens a little more of Christ in us all as He increases and we decrease.

Ecc 9:5 – For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 12:7 – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:8 – Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
Ecc 12:9 – And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Ecc 12:10 – The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

Taken by Surprise

When something as profound as the Light and Truth step into what you thought was “your life”, you are granted to see that you indeed have been awakened to this Truth that was already so. Simply stated, you now understand and know that to be the case. You were awakened, born again, given Life, shown the way, breathed into with the Spirit of God because BEFORE this time, you were DEAD already.

His Word awakens that which was dead, lives, yet is dying.

How does this all happen and what am I talking about? The first Adam is the beginning so it’s good to start there.

Of course, we have Adam who is known as coming from the dust of the ground, mixed with a little breath, who became a living soul, but let’s take our adventure to a time earlier than that… say, the foundation of the world?

Gen 2:7 – And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Rev 13:8 – And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Mat 13:34 – All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat 13:35 – That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mat 25:34 – Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Joh 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 – The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 – All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

So what “things” are we talking about here? The dead know nothing or ‘no thing’. The KJV says the dead know not anything. Yet, we know that Christ says Himself that all things are ours.

How does this all come together with the answer I give to people who ask me what happens after we die? Well, our body dies, and the Spirit given to us from God goes back to Him.

The complete answer though is much more hopeful! After death, we are awakened! Some of us, those that are blessed of God Himself, are told to inherit the kingdom of God NOW as we are breathed into with the Spirit of God while others waken unto judgment in the second death. Double whammy!

Confused? Things being uttered hard to understand? Let the Lord guide us all!

Hear Him Roar

In this study, we are going to be covering a lot of Ecclesiastes, and along the reading, we will begin to see a pattern form.

Here we have a “son of David”, and we know who Christ typifies – David. Keeping this in mind, let us see what the Lord has in store for us.

Ecc 1:1 – The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
Ecc 1:2 – Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
Ecc 1:3 – What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun (Christ)?
Ecc 1:4 – One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Ecc 1:5 – The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Ecc 1:6 – The wind (Spirit) goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
Ecc 1:7 – All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
Ecc 1:8 – All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
Ecc 1:9 – The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecc 1:10 – Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
Ecc 1:11 – There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

We have just read a comparison of basically, “what goes around comes around”. In this comparison though, we can see a pattern if we are given eyes to see and ears to hear it.

Out of the sum of what mankind is able to accomplish under the sun, it all equals vanity. That is very interesting. The next verse starts to reveal to us how this information was gathered by the author.

Ecc 1:12 – I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

Up until this point we have read a few verses alluding to the truth that all of mankind’s thoughts and actions are vanity. Now, we have a preacher who has identified himself as a preacher and king over Israel in Jerusalem.

I, the preacher, was king of Israel in Jerusalem. Aren’t we going to be kings and priests? Israel is God’s people but who is the true Jew? In relation to the “king being on the throne”, do we see a head and body scenario forming yet? Finally, where is Jerusalem? Where is the Jerusalem that our walk has us looking for?

All of these questions start to paint a scriptural picture for us. The one qualified to talk about this topic has the credentials as given to him of God. These credentials are nothing less than:

Heb 12:11 – Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Heb 5:14 – But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

How does that discernment fit into this question of death?

Ecc 1:13 – And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
Ecc 1:14 – I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecc 1:15 – That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered. (who can attest to the truth of this concerning our flesh)
Ecc 1:16 – I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
Ecc 1:17 – And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
Ecc 1:18 – For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Tying this all together, we have now read a template that we are going to focus on in regards to death, dying and what this whole subject is all about.

We all know we are going to die, but what happens afterward is a great mystery. This mystery is one I hope is opened up to us today a little bit more.

All Things versus No Thing

Ecc 9:5 – For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

All those living know one thing – we will die. What is the reward of the living? We know that the dead know not anything but what does that mean? On the surface, it seems pretty common, but let’s wipe away a little surface mud and see what’s beneath.

Job 30:23 – For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

Dan 4:17 – This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Death is the house of the living? How true this is if you can see it. Those who are living in this “present and evil age” for“this present and evil age” will continue to do so until they go to the dust that they were formed from.

However, there is a huge difference happening in those who realize they are walking among the “living dead”.

Rom 7:24 – O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Col 1:22 – In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

I am asked what happens after we die? Immediately, my mind asks which death the questioner is referring to? I know instinctively that the questioner is asking about physical death, but what was Christ’s point in resurrecting and continuing on to the rest of His ministry if DEATH were the focal point of life?

Death is the enemy. Death is a tool. Death will be done away with and is already fading until its ultimate destruction. Death will be swallowed up in victory, but is that out there somewhere waiting for its time to happen? No! It is NOW!

As a child of God, I should be endeavoring to learn more than the schoolmaster alone can teach me, and who is the schoolmaster?

Gal 3:24 – Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 – But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 – For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The schoolmaster, the law, is no longer the dominator because a greater thing has entered the race – Faith! The schoolmaster is simply there to bring us to Christ, because the schoolmaster is only a form of that which will destroy the flesh – Faith. The schoolmaster is the law which keeps our lawless and disobedient flesh in check.

1Ti 1:9 – Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Colossians is used to bring this point home:

Col 1:20 – And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Remember, the focus we are looking at right now is what are all things versus no thing which is what the dead know. Do you see how the Holy Spirit inspired this link to be made? All things in earth (carnal mind/ flesh/ physical) versus things in heaven (mind of Christ/ new man/ spiritual) are all reconciled to Christ. Christ did it all in ONE body! Son of man and Son of God….

Col 1:21 – And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 – In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 – If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Col 1:24 – Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
Col 1:25 – Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 – Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 – To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 – Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This hope of glory is why I sit here today sharing with you all what it is the Lord has given me to share. When asked what happens when we die. The answer that can be accurately given is – life happens.

Life through Death

Joh 12:24 – Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Joh 12:25 – He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh 12:26 – If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

And just where is Christ? If we are going to minister to Christ, then where are we going when we follow Him because we obviously must be WITH Christ to serve Him, no? Well, how can we follow Christ to where He is? The answer lies in the cup.

Mat 26:39 – And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 – And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 – Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

I’ve always thought it spiritually interesting that Christ’s disciples are dead… er, ‘sleeping’ when Christ comes to them. In type and shadow, Peter is sleeping (or dead), and Christ SPEAKS! Here is another example that gives a little more detail:

Mat 26:37 – And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee (Zebadee means “my gift” and he was a fisherman), and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
Mat 26:38 – Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39 – And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 – And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 – Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 – He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Mat 26:43 – And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. (they cannot see)
Mat 26:44 – And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
Mat 26:45 – Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the HOUR IS AT HAND, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Mat 26:46 – Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Truly, Christ was only accompanied by the Father during the time of “the cup”. Do you believe our experience while drinking this cup will be any different?

Luk 22:17 – And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 – For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 – And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 – Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Now, we have seen that if a grain of wheat fall to the ground and die, then it brings forth fruit – life. We have also just read that as Christ was going through this extreme suffering, His disciples were sleeping.

It isn’t until Christ comes a third time that He then tells His disciples to “sleep on” or continue sleeping. The first two times Christ came to His disciples, He reprimanded them for sleeping on the watch. Why is it that this happened the first two times but the third time is different?

As we have all come to understand, anytime something is told to us two or three times in scripture, then there is a point being brought home.

A large point being made here is the disciples were sleeping because:

Mat 26:43 – And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

I am starting to see a connection here, “their eyes were heavy.” Christ goes away and does the same thing and comes back and then says, “Sleep on now, and take your rest, the hour is at hand.” Whoa! Where have we seen this?

This phrase sounds a lot like, “the time is at hand”. Does anyone recognize this anywhere else?

Rom 13:11 – And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 – The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1Jn 2:18 – Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Rev 14:15 – And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

2Ti 4:6 – For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 – I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Keeping the Faith (start of part 2)

Up to this point, we have read a lot of things pertaining to death and dying but the title of this study is, “The Dead Know Not Anything” “so when are we going to touch upon that subject, Steven?”

Well, we have been the whole time, and in part two of this study I hope that this will be brought out a little bit more as the Lord wills.

Earlier, we read that Paul kept the faith, and earlier than that we read that the schoolmaster is no longer needed when faith comes. So, how does faith have anything to do with death, and what does any of this have to do with the “dead not knowing anything?”

Rom 4:1 – What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 – For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 – For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 – Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 – But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:13 – For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Col 2:11 – In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 – Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe 1:20 – Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 – Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

It is at the start of our “buried with Him, rising with Him through faith” that we start our walk. Let the dead bury the dead. See, we are already dead in trespasses when we come to the cross, when we come to this point.

Eph 2:1 – And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 – Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Col 2:13 – And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

When we come to this point, we are already spiritually dead. However, when we are buried in His baptism, we are given life in Him via resurrected life.

What do we do with this life? Well, we die daily to our flesh with this new life and mind.

1Co 15:25 – For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 – The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 – For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 – And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:29 – Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
1Co 15:30 – And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
1Co 15:31 – I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Wait a second! Christ is going to destroy death, and I die daily, so when will Christ destroy death? It is when death has worked its purpose. For you and I and any other saint in Christ, this time is NOW.

Rom 6:3 – Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 – Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 – For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

What does His resurrection mean? It means we are as He is in this world, now. We die daily, THUS we are REBORN daily in His resurrection. His name. His image…but how do we get from A to Z?

We are dead, are dying and will die.

What I am saying is that we are in a place now where the Lord starts His process in us so that we now are awakened to it; thus, we will be told to die again.

We are said we are DEAD in our transgressions. Christ comes to us and drags us to the Father after he comes to us while we are asleep and says…RISE. We are born into life by dying, and being dead we are free from the law. But, we are then told to DIE DAILY now, while the hour is at hand. Whew!

Can you see how the flesh rebels? How does this all happen?

“I thought we were talking about what happens after we die, Steven?”

I am talking about what happens after you die because some of us brothers and sisters are living it NOW! Some of us, Lord willing, have been called out of her…some of us are being called out of her and are being chosen to be Faithful until the end to overcome.

Some of us have the Word of God LIVING and BREATHING eternal LIFE into us. We know the Word of God for what the Lord has given us and what has been given to us is that we are to JUDGE OURSEVLES NOW.

Did I say judge OTHERS now? Nope. However, when judgment happens and the Spirit within the temple of God stirs from the north to the south again, then you will have that beam removed so that the spec that you see in your brother’s eye can easily be removed with LOVE.

Mar 12:29 – And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel(who is a Jew?); The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 – And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 – And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Joh 15:12 – This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 – Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Gal 5:14 – For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1Jn 3:11 – For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jn 3:12 – Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
1Jn 3:13 – Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 – We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15 – Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 3:16 – Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.(we abide in death by dying daily and live by example)

1Jn 5:1 – Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 – By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 – For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 – For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (it is Christ’s faith because He alone has overcome the WORLD…He LIVES in US though, amen)
1Jn 5:5 – Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:6 – This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Christ is here to destroy His flesh. Christ is here to destroy His body to bring life to it through purging it, burning it up with the fire of the Word of God. The Word of God says love God ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE. Love here is a verb. It’s an action. We KEEP it. We LIVE it!

2Jn 1:6 – And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jn 1:7 – For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 – Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 – Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, (what we have been talking about all along) hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 – If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 – For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I am not sure how it can be any clearer than that.

“Wait a minute, Steven. What about someone wanting to rape your wife and kill you and your family? What about someone wanting to rob and beat you?”

What about…. what Christ said about LOVING your ENEMIES?

I am not saying this will be easily understood, but loving my enemies is two-fold. There are those that would kill me for being Christian if I didn’t renounce it, but there are also those who are my enemies simply because, “how can two walk together unless they agree”. The person is not my enemy, but the Spirit within them is!

The world within them is the same world within me that Christ has overcome. So, if Christ is in me and not them at this present TIME, then I must let them know that the doctrine they bring is NOT WELCOME in my HOUSE.

“Steven, you are so cold…so mean, so cold-hearted!”

At that, I will tell you – eat, drink and be merry.

Eat, Drink and be Merry

I recently read an article on a website that states that the book of Ecclesiastes doesn’t belong in the bible because the author of it is too morbid, too depressed and too uninformed, because surely we are not equal to the beasts of the field which all go to the same place, the grave.

Interestingly, the very thing that this author was complaining about is EXACTLY what the writer was inspired to convey when penning this:

Ecc 8:15 – Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.

Luk 12:19 – And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luk 12:20 – But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Luk 12:21 – So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

It is also mentioned in Ecclesiastes that all that is given to man under the sun is a GIFT. Amazingly, we are brought back to where we find the title of this study. For the purpose of context and to hear the surrounding verses, I will read/offer Ecc 9 so that we can get a feel of the importance of the dead knowing nothing.

Ecc 9:1 – For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
Ecc 9:2 – All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
Ecc 9:3 – This is an evil among all things that are one under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecc 9:4 – For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 – For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 – Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:7 – Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecc 9:8 – Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
Ecc 9:9 – Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Ecc 9:10 – Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Ecc 9:11 – I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
Ecc 9:12 – For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
Ecc 9:13 – This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
Ecc 9:14 – There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
Ecc 9:15 – Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
Ecc 9:16 – Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man’s wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
Ecc 9:17 – The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
Ecc 9:18 – Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

The natural man says “right on, I should be able to live my life the way I want”, but the spiritual new man vomits such things out of his mouth.

Rev 3:15 – I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 – So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Where is the line in the sand for any of us if we are dead? What is the doctrine that is so ingrained in your beliefs that you cannot go BACK to the Word of God and re-examine what the Word of God, Christ in YOU, has to say about the matter? The time is at hand, but a Pharisee or a Sadducee can’t recognize the time they’re in.

They’re stiff-necked in their mind. The Sadducee in us says there is no resurrection, admitting that Christ has not come in the flesh. We just went over that, yet we are given over to delusion from the Lord, and not one will be able to conquer that great divide.

When you are dead, YOU KNOW NOTHING! This applies both physically and SPIRITUALLY. When you are spiritually dead, you are deceived and don’t know it.

What happens when we die? I have an atheist friend who said to me that when you die that’s it; you’re just dead and well, he was partly right.

The dead know not anything. However, there is a resurrection of the just and the unjust and Christ is the resurrection. I die daily, yet Christ lives in me.

On the flip side, most Christians I know think we go to heaven or hell right away when we die, but how can that be?

What happens when we die physically?

Ecc 12:7 – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Luk 23:46 – And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Joh 19:30 – When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Heb 9:27 – And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Wait, I die daily? Daily judgment? I thought it was only once? I am to judge my DAYS and everything therein? What kind of Faith is that? It is the Faith of Christ.

Rom 14:5 – One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

1Pe 4:17 – For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

If I die daily, how is it I care about the things that are in the world? The lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life? If I am daily dead, what do I care about? I know nothing.

Alas, it is only given to a few to understand that the things that we are hated for, or rather Christ is hated for within us, are the same things that we have FREELY BEEN GIVEN TO UNDERSTAND.

1Co 3:21 – Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 – Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 – And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

The old Adam in me hates the quickening Spirit there also. The old man Adam in others hates that same Christ within me. Christ is the Word of God. We bare His name on our foreheads and others hate the coat of many colors we wear along with it.

When we are given these things to understand then we are told we are going to be purged with the Word of God.

Eze 11:19 – And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 – That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:25 – Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 – A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Dying Daily to Live

When this happens, when we are given to see and hear the truth regarding this, thus starts the life-long process of being purged and dying daily. Just like a newborn, we start on milk and continue through to food, but we can’t learn everything all at once nor can we be cleansed all at once. It would kill us.

As this happens more and more in our lives, we will start to see fruit produced in us because if what you have is of Christ, then so then will the works of God be there. The works of God, His righteousness will be seen by everything within and without.

2Co 4:10 – Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 – For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:12 – So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
2Co 4:13 – We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
2Co 4:14 – Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
2Co 4:15 – For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
2Co 4:16 – For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

What part of the perishing of the outward man must we keep back for ourselves once the works of God are being manifest in our lives?

Luk 18:18 – And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 – And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Luk 18:20 – Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Luk 18:21 – And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 – Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 – And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 – And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

How hardly shall we, who start in our youth, coming behind in no gift, called to be Saints, enter into the kingdom of God if we treasure such riches!

Mat 6:19 – Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 – But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 – For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luk 12:33 – Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luk 12:34 – For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

What do you have to sell? Judge now or be judged later. If you hold anything back, there will be no difference in the resurrection. It will be counted as loss.

Act 5:1 – But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 – And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
Act 5:3 – But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 – Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 – And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6 – And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7 – And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 – And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 – Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 – Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Conclusion

Things of Old

Ecc 12:1 – Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
Ecc 12:2 – While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
Ecc 12:3 – In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
Ecc 12:4 – And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
Ecc 12:5 – Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ecc 12:6 – Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Things New

Ecc 12:8 – Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
Ecc 12:9 – And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Ecc 12:10 – The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
Ecc 12:11 – The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
Ecc 12:12 – And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Ecc 12:13 – Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 – For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

To the Body,

What do you all make of this spiritually, and how do we apply it to our lives today?

Act 20:9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.”
Act 20:11 And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.

M____

Hi M____,

Having just returned from England, where the fellowship was so enthusiastic that we stayed up until after midnight every night, makes this personally applicable to me.
I am so blessed with fellowship that, like Eutychus, I sometimes become weary in listening to and responding to all the fellowship and revelations with which we are so blessed here in the states. Yes, we too, are scattered, but at least we are only separated by three hours in four time zones, as compared to 5 hours for England 6 hours for Holland and South Africa, and up to 15 hours for Australia.
It is also very instructive to know that the word used for Paul’s “preaching” here is really the Greek word ‘dialegomai’.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

So while Paul was very likely doing much of the speaking, this still was not a monologue. It was the same thing that we just experienced every night in England.
The next verse means what it says outwardly, but spiritually ‘many lights’ verifies that there was what we call a dialogue or a discussion, going on in that third story room.

Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The fact is that this Greek word ‘dialegomai’ is most often translated as ‘reasoned’ instead of preaching. Here are a couple of examples of where it so translated.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned [ Greek, dialegomai] with them out of the scriptures,
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

So the message for us is that we are all still in weak human flesh, and as such we are all Eutychus, who so easily became weary, even at the most dangerous times.

Mar 14:35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Mar 14:37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
Mar 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Mar 14:39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.
Mar 14:40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.

This happened to to the apostles, and it happened to Eutychus, and it is written for my and for your admonition (1Co 10:11).

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the information on Paul being willing to leave. I understand that when we are dead, back to dust we go. However, what about our spirit? Where does it go and stay until the judgment or in the meantime?

Thanks so much,

S____

Hi S____,

Thanks for your question. Ask yourself where Adam’s spirit was before he was created. To show Job just how ignorant he really was about who God really is and how God operates in man’s world, God asked Job a very revealing question. The answer to this question is the answer to your question:

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

The obvious implicit answer to this question is that Job did not yet exist except in God’s foreknowledge. So it is with us.

Here is another way of answering the same question:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We did not exist until we were born, even though the spirit that gives us life was in the Father. Likewise we will not exist after death, until we are resurrected and at that time given spiritual bodies.

No one, spiritual or otherwise, has ever ascended to heaven:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Yes, we “are seated with Christ in the heavens” even now, but when we die we are dead until the resurrection. And without that resurrection then ‘they which are asleep in Christ are perished.”

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, a nd made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

I hope this is of some value to you.

Mike

Are the Sleep and Resurrection yet Future?

Hey Mike,

Would you please clarify these verses for me when you can, because it’s different from what I have been taught. Thanks a lot.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

Your answer, “We shall all be changed”, certainly includes Christ. His physical body was “changed’ into spirit; into a spiritual body “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and He was changed.”

I was taught this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” That teaching meant that all those who are asleep in Christ, meaning still in the world, are asleep.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised…

And this meant that in the twinkling, a jerk (of the eye, that is, (by analogy) an instant: – twinkling), that those who were in the world rejecting Christ were going one way and heard Christ’s word and in the twinkling of an eyelike suddenly (jerked) a different path now and were changed as though resurrected from sleeping; and that the last trump was the word. But now that I’m studying this with spiritual eyes, I can’t see how this can pertain to someone just hearing the word and changing when this verse is here as well…

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality….

So it cannot be physical when we cannot yet be in spiritual bodies because we are told…

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

I may be wrong, so just give me some clarity on the things which I’ve learned. I was actually fighting against my flesh when I read your answer on these verses because I was battling with what I learned in the past against the truth.

Thanks,
A____

Hi A____,

Thank you for your question. You ask what “asleep in Christ” means, and you say this:

I was taught this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” That meant that all those who are asleep in Christ, meaning still in the world are asleep.

Here are the verses you are quoting:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If the meaning here was, as you state, you were taught, “This means that all those who are asleep in Christ, means still in the world asleep”, then why is the emphasis here in 1 Corinthians 15 all on a future resurrection into a “spiritual body” which “shall be raised incorruptible?”

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

If verse 52 is speaking of a spiritual body and a present reality, then what does this previous verse mean?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

If this is speaking of a present reality, then what does the very next verse mean?

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

By placing the Greek article ‘touto‘ meaning “this” before “this [Greek: touto] corruptible”, and “this [touto] mortal” the holy spirit is informing us of our present condition and our present composition even as Christ dwells within our bodies of sinful flesh and blood (Col 1:27). The whole point in this verse is to demonstrate that we are at this time and in this age “waiting for the… inheritance of the purchased possession” while living in bodies of dying clay, and we are “expecting… the promise” of bodies which will be “immortal.”

Here is the true order of events as expressed here in 1 Corinthians 15 and again here in Ephesians 1:

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This 14th verse speaking of “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” is the same “inheritance” spoken of in the verse which precedes the verse you are inquiring about in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If the “change” under consideration in these two verses is the change of conversion while yet in bodies of flesh and blood, then the previous verse would be of no significance at all.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 is not speaking of an inward present conversion as much as the verses are concerned with a future resurrection as the hope of the dead.

This 14th verse of Ephesians 1 is one of the most overlooked, ignored and misunderstood verses of the entire Bible. It is right up there with Romans 2:28.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

So a physical, “outward” Jew “is not a Jew” unless he is first an inward Jew, “a Jew inwardly.”

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So a physical, fleshly Jew “cannot inherit the kingdom of God”, and neither can the flesh and blood of anyone else, Gentile or Jew, inherit the kingdom of God. That is why the holy spirit inspired the use of the word “until” in Ephesians 1:14:

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

“Earnest” is the English word for the Greek word ‘arrhabon‘, which means a pledge, or a down payment for a transaction which is expected to be completed sometime in the future. In this case, at the time of a resurrection from the dead, because that is the subject of this chapter:

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Let’s examine this word ‘earnest’ as it appears and as it is used in the original Greek. Here is Strong’s definition of this word.

G728
αρραβων
arrhabo n
ar- hrab- ohn’

Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: – earnest.

The Greek word ‘arrhabon’ is of Hebrew origin. Here is the Hebrew word from which this Greek word originates:

H6162
a ra bo n
ar- aw- bone’

From H6148 (in the sense of exchange); a pawn (given as security): – pledge.

Here now are three verses in Genesis where this word is used.

H6162
a ra bo n

Total KJV Occurrences: 3
pledge, 3
Gen_38:17-18 (2), Gen_38:20

Let’s look at these three entries and see what this word ‘arrhabon‘ really means. It is used in the story of Judah defrauding his daughter-in-law, Tamar, of her lawful husband. This is the story of Tamar’s desperate actions to secure herself a seed in the physical bloodline of her dead husband. Now look at how this word is used, because this is how it is used in Ephesians 1:14. Here is that story. I will embolden the three entries of this Hebrew word ‘arrhabon‘.

Gen 38:13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep.
Gen 38:14 And she put her widow’s garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which [is] by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife.
Gen 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.
Gen 38:16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?
Gen 38:17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send [it]?
Gen 38:18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.
Gen 38:19 And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood.
Gen 38:20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman’s hand: but he found her not.

Judah had promised Tamar “a kid from the flock”, and Tamar required an ‘arrhabon‘ or a pledge until she was given the kid. Judah expected that the delivery of the “kid of the flock” would redeem his signet and bracelets and his staff. In the same manner God has given us the ‘arrhabon‘, “the earnest of the holy spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession.” We are bought and paid for, but we will not receive the inheritance of the purchased possession until we are raised up from among the dead.

Now let’s look at the other two times this word appears in the Greek New Testament. Notice that promises of future blessings are once again the topic of discussion.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest [Greek: arrhabon – pledge, down payment] of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest [arrhabon, pledge, down payment] of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

It cannot be made any clearer that we, “while we are at home in the body, are absent from the Lord because we are walking by faith, not by sight”, and “we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.”

A “tabernacle” is a temporary temple, and while we are God’s temple, that has been accomplished by faith and not by things that are already possessed. Here is the very next verse.

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Now let’s read the next verse there in 1 Corinthians 15. It is verse 54. We will go back to the verses you have been taught about, and we will see if they are speaking of a present change and a present resurrection.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

“When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then [and not until that time] shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.” Clearly the apostle Paul was not speaking of the fact that all of mankind is born into dying bodies of dust and clay, which are being converted, but he is speaking of a coming change from a physical body to a spiritual body. In this case in these verses here in 1 Corinthians 15, he is speaking of the ultimate resurrection from among the dead into spiritual bodies which will then be incorruptible and beyond the grasp of death.

It is true that those who do not believe in the true Christ are spiritually dead. That is what these verses tells us:

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

So from a scriptural, Godly perspective, and from Christ’s point of view, physical life apart from Christ is actually death. “Let the dead bury their dead… He that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

When we are speaking of scriptures, we must be careful to use “a pattern of sound words” because scriptural patterns are what let us know how the spirit communicates to us.

2Ti 1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

So while it is true that physical life without Christ is nothing less than spiritual death, nowhere in scripture is the phrase “asleep in Christ” ever used to refer to being spiritually dead or not knowing Christ. Quite the contrary.

Luk 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

“Them that slept” does not refer to them that are “the dead burying their dead”. It refers to the dead who are physically buried in the dust of the earth, awaiting a resurrection in which they will be changed “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.”

Let’s look at two more examples of what “sleep” can mean in scripture:

Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
Mat 9:26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.

Christ deliberately brought scorn upon Himself by speaking spiritually to a carnal group, and He did it just so you and I could come to think as He thinks. This little 12-year old girl had been physically dead for hours, and everyone in the house was painfully aware of that fact. Yet Christ said “the maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

He said the same thing about Lazarus after Lazarus had been dead for four days:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

When speaking of physical death Christ said, “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”. What did Christ mean when said “Our friend Lazarus sleeps?” The answer is, “Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.”

Now does the “pattern of words” which says “sleep in the night”, mean spiritual death? Yes, “sleep in the night” does mean spiritual death:

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

“Whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him” proves pbeyond any doubt that Christ is speaking of the salvation of all in this section of scripture, because He has just distinguished the elect from the rest of mankind saying, “let us not sleep, as do others” to whom “the hope of salvation” is also coming “in their own order” (1Co 15:23). There is an order to “the redemption of the purchased possession”, and Paul is not contradicting himself in Ephesians 2:3 when He says, “We are not appointed to wrath…” here in 1 Thessalonians 5:9.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The subject under discussion in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is all who are to “obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ…” The apostle Paul assures us “that, whether we wake or asleep, we should live together with Him”. In other words “all men, specially them that believe.”

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The only reason “Ye, brethren are not in darkness” is because we have already confessed that we were in darkness, and we have already confessed that Christ came to us when we least expected it and dragged us to Himself:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw [Greek: helko, drag] him: and I will raise him up [out of sleep] at the last day.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Darkness, night and blindness are all the same thing; they are ignorance and rebellion against God and His Word and His ways. All mankind is “born blind [and in total] darkness, in the night”, and until we can admit to our cursed natural condition, we will remain under God’s wrath, in blindness, “our sin remaining.”

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God’s wrath is on the children of darkness, who we all are by birth and “by nature.”

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

“Who were dead in trespasses and sins… they that sleep, sleep in the night” are both referring to being spiritually dead, and spiritually asleep. It is also true that being asleep can, and does in many instances, refer to physical death, as the stories of both the dead 12-year old girl and the death of Lazarus demonstrate. “He told them plainly, Lazarus is dead.”

This is the ‘sleep’ referred to in the verse of which you inquire here in 1 Corinthians 15. This is the resurrection chapter:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

You say:

So it cannot be physical when we cannot yet be in spiritual bodies…”

That is true, and it because “we cannot yet be in spiritual bodies”, that this is all yet future, and none of this is referring to our present converted, spiritually alive, nor our present unconverted, spiritually dead state. This chapter is referring to the fact that “we shall [future] not all sleep [meaning die and be buried in the earth], but we shall all be changed [from physical to spiritual bodies] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.”

Romans 8, which we will quote shortly, proves that we are not yet “changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”, and along with all the rest of the creation, we are “groaning and travailing in pain together until now.”

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Yes, there are verses that speak of our present state as being either dead in sins, or being risen with Christ, but there are also sections of scripture (1Co 15:50-54, Rom 8:18-25) which say “we shall be changed” and which speak of “the earnest expectation of the creature waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.”

Neither of these sections of scripture is instructing us concerning our present spiritual state of being either spiritually dead or spiritually alive in Christ in this age. Both of these sections of scripture are dealing with those things which are promised to those who are in Christ, and they are dealing with the hope we are to hold onto in those promises of future blessings. It is extremely dangerous to confuse and mix these messages and then conclude that “the resurrection is already past” and “the redemption of the purchased possession” is already here, when the truth of this matter is:

Rom 8:22 [That] we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit [in earnest, Eph 1:14] , even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body [“the redemption of the purchased possession”].
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

You say:

I was taught this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed…” means that all those who are sleep in Christ, means they [who] are still in the world are asleep.

As you and I can plainly observe with every evil thought against which we still struggle for control, you and I are still “groaning and travailing” in bodies of “corruptible flesh and blood”. The changes taking place in us at this time are “by little and little”, and they certainly are not “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye” because 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 has nothing to do with being raised with Christ while still in physical bodies. Rather those verses have everything to do with a promise of hope we have of a resurrection which is not yet past:

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Exo 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

Deu 7:22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

Forcing “changed in the twinkling of an eye” to mean a ten-second sinner’s prayer changing our way of life in the twinkling of an eye, is a gross twisting and perversion of the truth of God’s Word which makes clear that our lives are changed “by little and by little” only as we “die daily” (1Co 15:31). The doctrine of all of God’s Word is that it is only those “who shall endure to the end, [who] shall be saved”, and the doctrine of God’s Word is that “we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God”.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The mistake that is made by so many is failing to see that the spiritual does not precede the natural, but it rather always follows the natural.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

It is given to very few at this time to see that all we have been given while in these “vessels of clay” is the “earnest of the spirit… of promise”, and that “earnest of the spirit”, that pledge, that “hope by which we are saved”, that “promise of the spirit”, is all we will have” until the redemption of the purchased possession”, which is the resurrection of the dead and a new spiritual body.

Eph 1:13 In whom [Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

A promise gives us hope, and “we are saved by hope.” If we already have that which we hope for, then we would not yet be hoping for it. I am going to let the spirit itself conclude this discussion concerning the proper understanding of the meaning of being asleep in Christ, here in 1 Corinthians 15, and whether this is referring to spiritual or physical death, and whether the resurrection which is under discussion in that chapter is speaking of a present “being raised with Christ” from a life of dead works, or a future resurrection into an incorruptible spiritual body. Here is the Biblical truth of this matter while we are yet in these “earthly tabernacles”.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit [in earnest (Eph 1:14)], even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body [“the redemption of the purchased possession”].
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

“Sufferings of this present time… [contrasted with the] glory which shall be revealed in us… the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God.” Does any of that sound like the fullness of “the redemption of the purchased possession”? Does “we are saved by hope” sound like Paul is speaking of a present possession in its fullness? I think not. Neither is 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 concerned with our present standing with God, whether being spiritually alive or spiritually dead, or “asleep.” This is all concerned instead with our faith and our hope in “the holy spirit of promise.”

I hope this all helps you to see that 1 Corinthians 15 is speaking of a future resurrection, while the “raised with Him” of Romans 6:1-4 and the “crucified with Him” of Galatians 2:20 are speaking of the death of our flesh at the hands of Christ and His Words doing their purifying work within us”, and a ‘resurrection with Christ into newness of life’ which at this time is only “the earnest [or pledge or down payment] of the spirit”.

Your brother in Christ,

Mike

Hi Mike,

I would appreciate hearing your comments on the spiritual meaning of the phrase ‘was gathered to his people’ (see scriptures below). I understand these old testament scriptures were written for our admonition and they minister unto us and they like all words of scripture are primarily spiritual.
While it ‘appears’ to be saying that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Aaron after giving up the ghost are being gathered to his people after death (i. e. have consciousness after death in order to be gathered to his people), it doesn’t actually say that… one has to read into the text based on their idol of the heart (similar to ‘rather be absent from the body AND present with the Lord…. the idol of the heart reads into the text and adds the word immediately in order to line up with that idol – all of which we have covered before). I am clear about the state of the dead (‘asleep and waiting the resurrection’) and the spirit of man (which is the breath of the almighty) goes back to whence it came (God) (Ecc 12:7) and the life in the spirit is hidden in Christ until the resurrection of the dead (us) and the dead know not anything in that state.
In these scriptures, it states Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was (being that they died) gathered and Moses and Aaron will be gathered (death impending). I can see if one believes in the false doctrine of an immortal spirit (with consciousness) that one would in turn use these as ‘proof texts’ and thus the Lord answers according to the heart’s idol… and would just hinder them from entering the Kingdom of God (Christ within us taking his rightful place on the throne of our hearts and minds).
… so the question is: at death what does it mean for these old testament patriarchs to ‘be gathered to his people’? I could not find any other scriptures with this phrase (my e- sword has not been working, so using Wigram’s is a lot slower – makes me appreciate those that came before the computer age – how did they keep a job and study/ minister the word??)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and Be Blessed,
M____

Gen 25:8  Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full [ of years]; and was gathered to his people.
Gen 25:17  And these [ are] the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
Gen 35:29  And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, [ being] old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.
Gen 49:33  And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
Num 20:24  Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.
Num 20:26  And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered [ unto his people], and shall die there.
Deu 32:50  And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:

Hi M____,
Thank you for your question.

You ask about the meaning of the Biblical phrase “gathered to his people?”
This question allows me to point out a very little understood verse in the words of our Lord.
I will not waste time going over all the verses of scripture where Christ Himself states that those who die are simply sleeping, from His perspective. That was what He told those who were crying over the death of the little twelve year old girl who he raised from the dead, and that is also what he said of Lazarus. ‘Lazarus is asleep… the maid is not dead, she is asleep.

Mat 9:24  He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Resurrection is a waking out of sleep, from Christ’s perspective. Christ eventually told his disciples that what He meant by “sleepeth” was what His disciples would consider as death.

Joh 11:12  Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13  Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14  Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

That brings us to the verse I want to mention that is so little understood and is so often misunderstood and abused by those who believe that mankind is inherently immortal. Here is what Christ taught.

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Man can kill the body, and when that happens we are, according to Christ, “asleep.” But man is “not able to kill the soul.” What is so often overlooked is the fact that God can and does “kill the soul” in Gehenna fire.
So when we die and are all “gathered to our people” we are “asleep”. If we are in Christ then we are said to be “asleep in Christ” awaiting a “resurrection of life”. If we are not “asleep in Christ” then we are said to be in asleep in hades, awaiting a resurrection of damnation. But there is no consciousness of either soul or spirit and a resurrection to a “spiritual body” is expedient if we are to avoid remaining as dead.

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [ is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [ was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Since mankind is inherently evil, only those who are “in Christ” will avoid that “resurrection of damnation”. But the word ‘damnation’ is not what we have been taught. It is not eternal in nature and simply involves the killing of the soul of the old man, for the purpose of transforming him into the new man much like a caterpillar is transformed into a butterfly when it awakes from its long winter’s sleep.
Either way we are “gathered to our people” and will be asleep until we come up in one of those two resurrections. “Our people” are either those that have done good… in Christ,” or “they that have done evil”, who are not in Christ.
If we are “in Christ,” and He is “in us”, then we are to count ourselves as dead and raised already, and we are to be seeking only those things which are above this earth. We are not to think of our old man as not being damned, because he too, is damned, and his soul too, must die in the “furnace of earth” where the fire that is God’s purifying word is doing its work of transforming and judging us even now.

Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD [ are] pure words: [ as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Col 3:1  If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2  Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3  For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4  When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19  Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So the “souls” of those who are “in Christ” are in the care of a faithful Creator, and are now, at this very moment, in the process of being judged through “fiery trials” which are killing the soul of our “old… rebellious… marred… and sinful… first man Adam. “

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So “a living soul… Adam,” must be killed by symbolic “fire”, and “the last Adam [ will replace that soulish Adam as] a life giving spirit.” That is the “one event” which is common to “all men,” regardless of which of the two resurrections we are predestined to participate.

Ecc 9:2  All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

According to that verse we are all “gathered to our people”, and if we follow the “line upon line, precept upon precept” principle of understanding God’s Word, we will find that some are gathered to Christ now, while others will be gathered to Him at a later time, via that great work of mercy and grace known as “the lake of fire.”
I hope this is of some edification and that it helps you to better understand the spiritual meaning of being “gathered to our people”.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your email.

This email hits my nail right on the head Mike. I think I also have a serious problem with prayer myself. I really do not know anymore what to pray for except for opening up my eyes more to see the mind of Christ and keep the words written in His book. I have learned that when we pray for something other than what must be, prayer will not be answered by our heavenly Father. I cannot pray for God to heal a sick person. I pray to God to fulfill His plan with that person.

It is hard for me to ask for anything like for my business to go well thinking in my blind-as-a-bat condition that my “business” was the “house” to be built… totally ignorant that the only house which is important to my heavenly Father is my spiritual house. That must be built, and that will only be built if He grants me more of the mind of Christ.

I hardly pray like I used to: physically kneeling with folded hands and closed eyes at certain times. I pray driving the car, cycling to work, at my desk, walking down the stairs, doing groceries, and often it is a “Thank you Father” or only Abba Father, because I don’t know what to say. What can I say when all I want is for God to fulfill His plan with bringing His creation to the knowledge of His truth.

I am thankful for what I receive, spiritually and physically, but it is very hard for me to pray for tomorrow, or pray for some future thing, when I know that I don’t even know my next step. Knowing this does not bother me a bit. What is bothering me lots of times is that I sometimes feel I’m not doing things like I should do; especially with prayer. I can’t back this feeling up with scripture, so this feeling might be a spirit not of God, but I feel that asking God for things other than what must be is praying in vain. Prayer is something I have a struggle with, because I don’t understand what to pray for.

I cannot pray to God for my physical health, because I don’t know what the Father’s plan is with my physical health. I pray that all I want is for God to fulfill His plan, whatever that is. And this goes for everything.

I hope this makes a little sense to you, Mike. Sometimes it is hard to put what is living inside me into words.

Your brother in Christ,
R____

Hi R____,

Thank you for your honest response to that email. The way you feel at this time is very common to anyone who comes to know that God is “working all things… the preparations of the heart and the answer of the tongue… after the counsel of His own will,” and that it is all “predestinated.”

It is logical to come to the conclusion that the fervent prayer of a righteous man doesn’t really change anything, and that we really ought never to make our petitions known to God because we should be seeking only His will.

The truth, nevertheless, is that we are predestined to be brought into trials that will involuntarily prompt a fervent prayer by a righteous man, such as this prayer.

Luk 22:40  And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Luk 22:41  And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luk 22:43  And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44  And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Luk 22:45  And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
Luk 22:46  And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
Luk 22:47  And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

Twice in this story our Lord tells His disciples to “Pray that you enter not into temptation.” We will all be tried and tempted, but we are nevertheless exhorted by our Lord Himself to pray that we be not led into temptation. That is the same exhortation He gave them when He instructed them how they ought to pray.

Mat 6:8  Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Mat 6:9  After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10  Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
Mat 6:11  Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12  And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13  And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Notice that all these very general requests are instructed to be made immediately after informing us that “your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. ”

This is all coming from our same Lord who devoted two whole parables to telling us to make our petitions known and be persistent in prayer. Why does God do this?

The answer is that He certainly does not do it for His own benefit. He already knows every word we will pray. We are instructed to be persistent and fervent in prayer for our own benefit, “that you enter not into temptation.” If we do not follow these instructions, we will certainly “enter into temptation, and if we are stubborn in resisting these instructions, then that temptation just might be the temptation of Judas.

Yes, it is all written in advance, but the example of our Lord demonstrates that those who are “as He is” will be brought to fervent and persistent prayer.

So if you are not yet led to pray for any specific thing, then just wait until that time comes, because it will come, just as it came to our Lord. You have apparently be given to “pray without ceasing,” and you have been given to ask “thy will be done” so if He wills it, you will become a fervent, persistent prayer warrior who will “pray that you enter not into temptation” in God’s own time.

None of us is really alone, but we are all scattered and in dire need of each other’s fellowship and yes, each other’s prayers.

You are right where God wants you at this time. Your prayer life is what He wants it to be at this time, but rest assured you will be brought to fervent prayer for specific needs at your own appointed time.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

Mike,
I just had a very nice revelation.

Act 20:7  And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8  And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9  And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10  And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11  When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

We know the first day of the week is the day of resurrection (within). Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow. We are ready to depart this flesh on the morrow of this day of resurrection.
Paul’s preaching caused this certain young man to sink down with sleep. Paul’s enlightening words caused spiritual death to this man. But Paul raised him from the dead, just as we are being raised. Then after he was raised he broke bread, (was able to rightly divide the word). Then after a long while, even till break of day, he departs, just as we will after this long while still in the flesh depart.

Dying daily
R____

Hi R____,

I have never gotten so much out of that story!  Thanks once again for sharing with me the treasures God bestows on you. I am so grateful for every little nugget of His Truth.
I looked up the name ‘Eutychus,’ and it is defined as “well fated,” as if to be a type of God’s predestined elect.
Isn’t it interesting how all the negative parts of God’s Word all apply to His elect? The lost sheep, the prodigal son, the woman caught in adultery, the men who killed the son of the Lord of the vineyard and a young man named Eutychus who could not stay awake to hear God’s Words.
My prayers are with both of you.
A little revelation I have been given is the relationship between the body of Christ, and the kingdom of God. They are, of course, one and the same. The “kingdom within” is also “the spirit of God dwelling [ within] you.”

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So ‘the kingdom of God… the spirit of God… the temple of God, and the Son of God, are all within us and are all one and the same spiritual message.
The flip side to that message is the dark side of that cloud which was with Israel at the Red Sea. What this reveals is that before “the kingdom of God is within us,” we are all in the darkness of Egypt. In other words all the negative things of scripture are also within. At the Red Sea, Egypt was in the dark, but who created that darkness? Satan cannot create anything. Satan is not a creator, he is a created being who was not chosen as the channel of God’s creation. Christ, of course is that channel. So while it is not scriptural to say that there is darkness within Christ, it is scriptural to say that He creates both darkness and light.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Psa 139:12  Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

I won’t go on with what I know you already realize. That is all just to say, what you have said, ‘We are Eutychus, being raised up out of death into the glorious light of the kingdom of God, now able to properly break bread with the Christ of Christ.

Thanks again. See you soon, Lord willing.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike