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The Virtuous Body of Christ - Part 9 Discussion

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“The virtuous body of Christ” - Part 9

May 1, 2016

with Steven Crook

We’ve arrived in our study today to find that our virtuous woman is one who is caring for those around her.

This is an admirable trait for anyone, but when we dive into our verses today, we will notice that those who are helped by this virtuous woman are not always who we think they are which need her help.

Today’s study will also help emphasis our need to “work with our hands”, laying them to the spindle, so that we can look into what we are really being told in any given verse. This of course is needed when we study scriptures which have been translated from their original languages into the languages we have today.

The poor and needy

The verse of focus for us today is Proverbs 31:20.

Pro 31:20  She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

When we look at the first part of verse 20, we read it and it seems self-explanatory. However, there is a deeper meaning than what our English translation has captured in the KJV.

Pro 31:20  She stretcheth outH6566 her handH3709 to the poor;H6041 yea, she reacheth forthH7971 her handsH3027 to the needy.H34

H6041
‛ânı̂y
Total KJV Occurrences: 82
poor, 59
Exo_22:25, Lev_19:10, Lev_23:22, Deu_24:11-12 (2), Deu_24:14-15 (2), Job_24:9, Job_24:14, Job_29:12, Job_36:6, Job_36:15, Psa_9:18, Psa_10:2, Psa_10:9 (2), Psa_34:5-6 (3), Psa_35:10 (2), Psa_37:14, Psa_40:17, Psa_68:10, Psa_69:29, Psa_70:5, Psa_72:2, Psa_72:4, Psa_72:12, Psa_74:19, Psa_74:21, Psa_86:1, Psa_109:16, Psa_109:22, Pro_14:21, Pro_30:14, Pro_31:9, Pro_31:20, Ecc_6:8, Isa_3:14-15 (2), Isa_10:2, Isa_10:30, Isa_14:32, Isa_32:6-7 (2), Isa_41:17, Isa_58:7, Isa_66:2, Jer_22:16, Eze_16:49, Eze_18:12, Eze_18:17, Eze_22:29, Amo_8:4, Hab_3:14, Zec_7:10, Zec_11:7, Zec_11:11
afflicted, 15
2Sa_22:28, Job_34:28, Psa_18:27, Psa_22:24, Psa_25:16, Psa_82:3, Psa_88:15, Psa_102:1, Psa_140:12, Pro_15:15, Pro_22:22, Isa_49:13, Isa_51:21, Zep_3:11-12 (2)
humble, 5
Psa_10:12 (3), Psa_10:17, Psa_34:2, Psa_69:32
lowly, 3
Pro_3:34, Pro_16:19, Zec_9:9

The majority of the time this word is translated as poor, but there is a deep rooted meaning behind this Hebrew word that is not captured fully in verse 20.

H6041

‛ânı̂y
aw-nee'
From H6031; depressed, in mind or circumstances (practically the same as H6035 subjectively and H6041 objectively): - afflicted, humble`, lowly`, needy, poor.
Total KJV occurrences: 75

H6031

‛ânâh
aw-naw'
A primitive root (possibly rather identical with H6030 through the idea of looking down or browbeating); to depress literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively (in various applications). (sing is by mistake for H6030.): - abase self, afflict (-ion, self), answer [by mistake for H6030], chasten self, deal hardly with, defile, exercise, force, gentleness, humble (self), hurt, ravish, sing [by mistake for H6030], speak [by mistake for H6030], submit self, weaken, X in any wise.
Total KJV occurrences: 83

I will list the majority of the time this word is translated so save some note space. Fifty of the eighty-three times that the root of the word “poor” in verse 20 is translated as afflict to afflicted.

H6031
‛ânâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 83
afflict, 29
Gen_15:13, Gen_31:50, Exo_1:11, Exo_22:22-23 (2), Lev_16:29, Lev_16:31, Lev_23:27, Lev_23:32, Num_24:24 (2), Num_29:7, Num_30:13, Jdg_16:5-6 (2), Jdg_16:19, 2Sa_7:10, 1Ki_11:39, 2Ch_6:26, Ezr_8:21, Job_37:23, Psa_55:19, Psa_89:22, Isa_58:5 (2), Isa_64:12, Lam_3:33, Nah_1:12, Zep_3:19
afflicted, 21
Exo_1:12, Lev_23:29, Deu_26:6, 1Ki_2:26 (2), 2Ki_17:20, Job_30:11, Psa_88:7, Psa_90:15, Psa_107:17, Psa_116:10, Psa_119:67, Psa_119:71, Psa_119:75, Psa_119:107, Isa_53:4, Isa_53:7, Isa_58:3, Isa_58:10, Isa_60:14, Nah_1:12
humbled, 7
Deu_8:3, Deu_21:14, Deu_22:24, Deu_22:29, Psa_35:13, Eze_22:10-11 (2)

Clearly, those which are poor are those which are depressed and afflicted. Who do we, as the virtuous body of Christ, know who is depressed and afflicted? Let’s see if scripture can help us figure it out

Exo 1:12  But the more they afflicted H6031 them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.

Lev 23:26  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:27  Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict H6031 your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28  And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Lev 23:29  For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted H6031 in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

2Sa 22:25  Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.
2Sa 22:26  With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.
2Sa 22:27  With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury.
2Sa 22:28  And the afflicted H6031 people thou wilt save: but thine eyes are upon the haughty, that thou mayest bring them down.

Psa 119:75  I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted H6031 me.

Pro 22:22  Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted H6031 in the gate:

These are a few of the old testament examples of those who the virtuous woman stretches out her hand to. Since we want to take out of our old and new “treasure”, what does the new testament say about those who are afflicted?

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

2Co 1:5  For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
2Co 1:6  And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2Co 1:7  And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

1Ti 5:9  Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,
1Ti 5:10  Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Heb 11:37  They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Jas 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9  Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Jas 5:13  Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

I read a lot of these verses and their surrounding verses to help form a word picture of what it means to be afflicted.

Those who are afflicted are those who are depressed in the spirit. However, as we just read, this can be affliction caused by the Lord for us to be humbled by it and there are also times when we need to afflict ourselves.

This simply means that there are times when we must HUMBLE ourselves before the Lord and RECOGNIZE who we are in the Lord.

Anything we have been given has been given to us by the Lord and that certainly is not limited to physical things. We are more focused on spiritual gifts and fruits of the spirit.

When we look at the second part of Proverbs 31:20, we will see those who are “needy” are actually those who we would consider the “poor” among us.

Pro 31:20  She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy H34.

H34
'ebyôn
Total KJV Occurrences: 61
needy, 35
Deu_15:11 (2), Deu_24:14, Job_24:4, Job_24:14, Psa_9:18, Psa_12:5, Psa_35:10, Psa_37:14, Psa_40:17, Psa_70:5, Psa_72:4, Psa_72:12-13 (3), Psa_74:21, Psa_82:4, Psa_86:1, Psa_109:16, Psa_109:22, Psa_113:7, Pro_30:14, Pro_31:9, Pro_31:20, Isa_14:30, Isa_25:4, Isa_32:7, Isa_41:17, Jer_5:28, Jer_22:16, Eze_16:49, Eze_18:12, Eze_22:29, Amo_4:1, Amo_8:4, Amo_8:6
poor, 25
Exo_23:6 (2), Exo_23:11, Deu_15:4, Deu_15:7 (2), Deu_15:9, Deu_15:11, Est_9:22, Job_29:15-16 (2), Job_30:25, Job_31:19, Psa_49:2, Psa_69:33, Psa_107:41, Psa_109:31, Psa_112:9, Psa_132:15, Psa_140:12, Pro_14:31, Isa_29:19, Jer_2:34, Jer_20:13, Amo_2:6, Amo_5:12
beggar, 1
1Sa_2:8

H34

'ebyôn
eb-yone'
From H14, in the sense of want (especially in feeling); destitute: - beggar, needy, poor (man).
Total KJV occurrences: 61

H14

'âbâh
aw-baw'
A primitive root; to breathe after, that is (figuratively) to be acquiescent: - consent, rest content, will, be willing.
Total KJV occurrences: 54

According to Strong’s the root of being a person who is labeled “needy” is someone who is ready to accept something without protest or to do what someone else wants, and the word itself means someone is destitute and in need or poor

The idea being conveyed is that someone needy is willing to take whatever they can get without any sort of denial or upheaval at what they are receiving. They will accept whatever help they can get. They are willing to be content.

So, as the virtuous body of Christ, and as a wife that a “king” would be seeking, as instructed by Lemuel’s mother, we are willing to stretch forth our arm for those that are afflicted and are willing to be content with whatever it is we are able to help with.

Prayer and counsel come to mind, but there is also times where physical needs are needing to be helped as well of course.

Jas 2:14  What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15  If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16  And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21  Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25  Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26  For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We see in James 2 that works accompany Faith because without works faith is dead. If someone has a physical need, we should tend to it as we are able.

If someone has a spiritual need, then we must ALSO have something that accompanies the Faith that is needed to help the need of this needy/poor person. They need works.

If we look back at the last study, a big part of that study was the focus on putting our hand to the spindle and using the distaff. In other words, we must be willing to do the WORK that is needed for the household of God so that our Faith is made manifest with that work.

What was the work that was the focus of the basic thread being weaved by this virtuous woman rising early to get the work done?

Prayer.

With prayer we also must REST. Wait, didn’t I just say there was WORK to be done?

Ahh, there it is, and apparent contradiction. How can prayer and rest be likened to WORK?

We all want to be able to help someone when the hour of their need comes to our ear. We want to help them fill their belly with food if they are hungry, we want to give them a place to stay when they need a roof for the night, we want to offer them funds to help them with their water bill when they need water, but do we at all consider that their needs are always spiritual first?

What do I mean by that?

If the Lord has placed them in a position to need Him, and He has sent them to us for that need, then being the virtuous body of Christ we need to be willing both to help physically and also spiritually.

Praying is the works that is needed, and RESTING in the Lord and waiting for His will to be made manifest is HUGELY important. Praying is the SHOWING of our gift of Faith.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

We are given grace and faith so that we are saved THROUGH Faith and are faith is always TRIED in the FIRE. That is why even Paul’s thorn in the flesh was not removed. This is trialed Faith!

Here is an example of this concept at play. How is the Lord's will manifest in this story?

Mar 14:3  And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
Mar 14:4  And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
Mar 14:5  For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
Mar 14:6  And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
Mar 14:7  For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Mar 14:8  SHE HATH DONE WHAT SHE COULD: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
Mar 14:9  Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Php 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14  Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

How can the anointing Jesus Christ with precious oil in Mark 14 and working out our OWN salvation with FEAR and trembling in Philippians 2 be linked to stretching our HAND towards the afflicted and depressed and reaching forth our HANDS to the destitute?

Pro 31:20  She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

Stretching out the hand is the spreading of the hand wide open and “reaching forth” is SENDING OUT those hands to the needy.

In plain English, we are to fully provide the work we can provide to those who are afflicted and to make sure that WORK REACHS those who are destitute.

How or why are they destitute? It may seem obvious, but it is ALL OF THE LORD.

As hard as it is to accept at times, the Lord has worked in our lives both the good and evil to be caused to happen to us. Since that is the case, He and His will are also the SOLUTION to the afflictions and destitution we are in!

We have to REST in the answer He provides and as a virtuous body of Christ we must REST on whatever His manifest will is for us at the time of our destitution. We will either be relieved or need to continue to work through our trials and it is the TRIAL of your Faith that is precious to the Lord.

The pouring of oil on the head of Christ was giving God the CREDIT for having the POWER to prepare Jesus for His death. Those that had indignation within themselves were those who thought it was more beneficial to take this oil (power of God) and do what they thought was MOST VALAUBLE and expedient to do.

What did Jesus Christ call this work done to Him? A good work that would be remembered wherever the Gospel would be preached.

Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I ask you which of these situations of being hungry, thirsty, a stranger in a land, naked, sick or a prisoner is only speaking about these things PHYSICALLY?

Are these things I am about to read ONLY physical? These are things we must KEEP!

Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT.
Rev 3:20  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

What are the things we must overcome? What are the things which we must repent of?

As the virtuous body and wife of Christ, we must be willing to do the work of praying, resting and BELIEVING the Lord will give us deliverance of the things we just read. Wretchedness, being miserable, destitute and distressed, blindness and nakedness.

The Lord is WITH US so WHO or WHAT can be AGAINST US?

Have we not read Romans 8?

Rom 8:36  As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Lord has been faithful in telling us we, I Steven Crook, will be SLAUGHTERED so when the time comes upon me I need to remember  that the Lord DOES LOVE ME!

When someone in need or who is poor comes to us, we must tell them that the Love of the Lord us REBUKING and CHASTENING but it is for good and the Lord calls us His BELOVED. This is how He shows us that we are His. The GOOD that comes from rebuking our carnal mind and flesh is what is needed to make us WHOLE and to be healed of all the things we mentioned in Matthew 25.

Let us always be willing to share the power of God with those who the Lord sends to us to pour His love out on, but we also need to always be mindful that those who are truly poor in the spirit will be more than content to have this POWER poured out on them. With this power comes great rebuking and chastening of the flesh and carnal mind that separates us from our Lord.

Hello Mike,

I must thank you for replying so quickly. I was not expecting a response in such a short space of time.

I stopped attending organized services about two years ago. However, I found your website while researching the law of the old testament and how it applies to a Christian today. Your paper on the subject I feel was extremely well written, and has been, so far, the basis for my interest in your website. I am almost finished working through it. It is very involved, and I am taking my time.

That brings me to my next point. From what I have seen, there is a bit I wouldn’t agree with on your webpage. My first question to you was regarding 7-day creationism.

I find it curious that your position would be in agreement with more fundamentalist doctrines as you differ with them on almost every other point. I have also read somewhere on your website pages that you say something along the lines of every doctrine in the church is a lie, that the whole stay of bread and water has been removed. So I am confused at your adherence to this, based on that statement. Maybe you could clarify that for me?

I accept what you say about the criticism online but also, I do have some concerns with the ad hominem way in which you dismissed it. There seems to be no doubt about the person’s bitterness, but what about the audio of yourself? I have, for example, heard you dressing down your children publicly, and in others I have heard you asking for money directly, even though your email reply said that you will never do that. I also heard an elder refer to himself as “incredibly humble” which, to be frank, was sending up a red flag to me. I was hoping you would speak to that at some point.

Regarding the works of service, I would be inclined to agree with what you said in your email reply with the exception of giving money to a homeless drunk or drug abuser. It would be irresponsible, in my opinion, to give such a person money and the way you worded things made it appear that you didn’t care either way what they did with the money. Is that your position or have I read you incorrectly? But everything else I agreed with and I appreciated your use of the scripture in your reply as well.

I hope we can continue our email replies, Mike. I am trying to be honest and to the point, something that within organised religion, as you well know, is often looked down upon.

Again, an immediate reply is not expected or requested. Thanking you, Mike.

S____

Hi ____,

Thank you for giving me some background on yourself. I very much enjoy hearing the details of how God has dealt with any and all of His sheep in dragging them to Himself. As I always point out, the details vary and are very interesting, but in the final analysis all things come alike to all, and there is but one event to all, both the righteous and the wicked, simply because “there is none righteous” to begin with. “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” and as such, all have their names blotted out of God’s book of life before their names are re- instituted through the judgment that must come first upon the house of God.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Just look at these verses of scripture:

Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Those words are true for every man who ever has or ever will live.

Add to that this verse:

Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Yes, it is a matter of order:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Here now is that “fiery… judgment… one event” by which “all in Adam” will be “saved” in Christ:

1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

That ‘fire’ is the word of God, which purifies our new last man by and through the destruction of our old first man. It is all made clear in 1Corinthians 15. Right after telling us that all in Adam will be saved by fire, each in his own order, we are then given these details:

1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

All men are the first Adam first, and each in his own order will “put on the heavenly” and become “the last man Adam” through the fiery judgment, one event which will come alike to all men, “every man in his own order…” because:

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [not exclusively, but “firstfruit, specially”] of those that believe.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only [not for the firstfruits only], but also for the sins of the whole world.

Again, I will answer you in the order in which you ask of me.

I feel certain you will identify with all those verses of scripture and hear the voice of the True Shepherd in them. It is amazing how our experiences are so different and yet are accomplishing the same “one event” in us all.

Here is your first part of this e-mail that I will now address:

… From what I have seen, there is a bit I wouldn’t agree with on your webpage. My first question to you was regarding 7-day creationism. I find it curious that your position would be in agreement with more fundamentalist doctrines as you differ with them on almost every other point. I have also read somewhere on your website pages that you say something along the lines of every doctrine in the church is a lie, that the whole stay of bread and water has been removed. So I am confused at your adherence to this, based on that statement. Maybe you could clarify that for me?

I am very pleased that you do not immediately agree with everything on iswasandwillbe. com after only two months of reading. It took me two whole years to come to see that God really is going to save not only his firstfruits “but also… the whole world… each in his own order”.

It took another two whole years later for me to accept the simple truth of scripture which teaches plainly and consistently that God is “working all things after the counsel of His own will” (Eph 1:11). So I am much more comfortable with a person who struggles to see what the scriptures teach than I am with a person who immediately falls down at the feet of the angel who shows him these things, and worships him when that ‘angel’ is nothing more than a fellow laborer.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

We all have that in us also, but we must all get past that stage of our walk and honor our teachers without worshiping them.

As for my saying that God has taken away the whole stay of bread and water, those are not my words but God’s:

Isa 3:1 For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,

Your sincere insinuation is that if I believe in a young earth as many fundamentalists do, then I cannot say that the whole stay is taken away. However, you are failing to allow for the Biblical revelation which demonstrates that truth can come from the mouth of the serpent himself, and at the same time that very truth can be tainted with an accompanying lie.

For example: Was it true that eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would make Adam and Eve as God? Yes, God Himself confesses that the serpent told the truth when he told Adam and Eve that eating of the tree would make them like God to know good and evil:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Does this equate to the serpent having any of the true bread or any of the true water of the word of God? Of course it doesn’t mean that at all. The most effective lies always come from the forked tongue of the serpent who confesses that what God says is true, while at the same time calling God a liar. Truth which is tainted with falsehood is not truth at all, but merely poison bait for the “unlearned and unstable” who will always wrest what the spirit reveals to make it say what they want to hear. But the truth of God’s Word still remains:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Let me tell you of what my son said to me when I first told our entire Bible study group one morning that Isaiah 3:1 was just as true as 1Corinthians 15:22.

Isa 3:1 For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

When I read that verse in Isaiah 3 and compared it to 1Corinthians 15:22, my son, who you did indeed hear me “dress down” (I will deal with that in a few minutes), actually interrupted my delivery and reprimanded me in front of the whole assembly saying, and I quote, “Dad, you cannot say things like that! That simply is not true!” So I asked him immediately, “Okay son, if that is not true, then please give me just one doctrine of Babylon which has not been tainted with the forked tongue of the Adversary.” His answer was (and it is very similar to what you point out here about fundamentalists believing what the Bible clearly teaches about a six evening and morning creation), “Dad, we all believe that Christ died for our sins. Even Babylon teaches that.” So I asked him, “Son, do you honestly believe that there is anyone in Babylon who believes that Christ ever really died?” I reminded him that most of Babylon believes that Christ and all men have an immortal soul which cannot be killed and that they teach that Christ went to hell and preached to spirits in prison, or He was in paradise with the thief, or some such contradictory imaginations of men who do cannot see what the scriptures actually say because God has indeed taken from them the whole stay of bread and the whole stay of water.

So when you say that fundamentalists believe in a young earth, and therefore I cannot say that God has taken the whole stay of bread and the whole stay of water away from them, you are forgetting that their young-earth doctrine usually also teaches a gap theory between verses one and two of Genesis one, and/or they do not believe that Christ is the beginning of the creation of God, or they do not believe Satan and “all things in heaven and in earth” were created by Christ “in six days” qualified as six days consisting of six “evening[s]” and six “morning[s]”. If that were not six times so qualified, and if we were not again told that “it happened instantly”, then we might well have reason to think otherwise, but when the scriptures qualify what they mean, then we need to acknowledge the fact that they have been clarified to avoid being misunderstood.

The scriptures are super clear on this subject. Have we been granted faith in “that which is written”, or have we been given to lean to our own understanding?

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

I certainly do not believe that we must check our brains at the door in order to please God, but if our definition of ‘faith’ is physical evidence, then we simply have the wrong religion. I say that because no one yet has ever demonstrated in a scientific manner how a virgin can conceive and bring forth a child without the agency of a human sperm donor. Yet we all claim we believe in that doctrine. An instantaneous creation is no harder to believe than the virgin birth of our Savior.

Consider this Godly advice:

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brothers, I applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us ye might learn not to think above that which is written, so that ye may not be puffed up, one over the one against the other.

I hope that helps you to see that I am in no way contradicting myself when I believe what the scriptures clearly state concerning the age of this earth. I will gladly let God be true and “science falsely so-called [and] all men liars”.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Here is your next paragraph:

I accept what you say about the criticism online but also, I do have some concerns with the ad hominem way in which you dismissed it. There seems to be no doubt about the person’s bitterness, but what about the audio of yourself? I have, for example, heard you dressing down your children publicly and in others, I have heard you asking for money directly, even though your email reply said that you will never do that. I also heard an elder refer to himself as “incredibly humble” which, to be frank, was sending up a red flag to me. I was hoping you would speak to that at some point.

First, I am gratified to our heavenly Father that He has granted you the ability to try the spirit with which you are dealing and to hear the bitter voice of a stranger therein. I can also understand why you would take offense at how I dealt with my children in such a public way. I hope you will also allow for the fact that I, like the apostles themselves even after the day of Pentecost, can be so hypocritical as to separate themselves from the Gentiles and later repent. Such a spirit is the spirit of Christ within any man. I have apologized to my sons for allowing that to be posted, but I cannot apologize for the content of what was said since I am commanded to “mark those who cause divisions” even if it is my own sons. That is what I have done, and I made those statements to those who were a part of what had taken place, which is simply following the instructions of scripture, and the example of the apostles themselves. Paul rebuked the apostles Peter and Barnabas “before them all”, and we are commanded to do the same when a brother or a sister in our fellowship attempts to scatter the flock with false doctrines as my own sons were doing.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I tremble at those words, especially since I was warned in advance this would happen:

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

These are just a couple verses which command the true shepherds who fear God more than men, or their wives, to not allow heretics to bring heresies into the flock of God:

Act 20:17 And from Miletus he [Paul] sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Act 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
Act 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
Act 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

Before I go on quoting what the spirit tells us to do here in Acts 20, I want to tell you that we had a Bible study tonight which is hosted by a brother named Aaron Lohman. There were eleven computers logged in with perhaps 15 people who have all known me for many years. I took the opportunity to ask them all a simple question. I asked them, “Have any of you on this study ever once in all the years you have known me, ever heard me ask for money?” Of course they all replied immediately that they never had heard such a thing, simply because that is the truth. The Lord knows it is the truth, and that is all that matters.

One brother did point out that at all of our conferences, which are all convened by local brothers and sisters who use their own funds to finance the meeting halls, the catered meals, coffee and drinks, and whatever is needed to make our stay a profitable and comfortable time of fellowship, that at those conferences, I always remind those attending to contribute to the expenses, if they are able, of the rental of the meeting space and the food, etc. We are specifically told “bear our own burden” and to carry our own weight:

Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Neither you nor anyone else has ever heard me ask for monies for my own personal use. I always contribute to our expenses, and if indeed you have heard me “ask for money directly” for myself, then it was accomplished in the same way the whole nation heard George Zimmerman tell that dispatcher that Trayvon Martin was a black man in the recent news incident. It was done by editing a tape to make it say what the lying editors wanted it to say. My chief detractor bragged to me that he had deliberately lied to me about repenting of the things that he had said about me, and then he belittled me for being so gullible as to accept his apology. So I apologize if my answer came across as dismissive or in an “ad hominem manner”. I was careful to point out that this, too, is a work of God, and I did not attack the character of those involved. I even told you that I knew that what they did was not the fault of anyone involved; either my own sons, their wives, or any of our other detractors. Many of them, on the other hand, have indeed attacked my character “ad hominem”.

Now continuing with what we are told by the apostle Paul in Acts 20:

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. [Not “smooth things” which agree with popular doctrines or popular “science so called”.]
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

If my goal were to garner a following, I certainly would not continue teaching a message which has turned my own children against me, and which I have been told would do just that:

Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

As noted above:

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

I would very much like to hear an audio where you “heard [me] asking for money directly” for anything other than what I have just explained which is scripturally proper when we see the apostles themselves urging those in their charge to be quick to communicate with the needs of others in their in their midst and to “bear one another’s burdens” instead of placing all the burden for a Bible conference upon the shoulders of just one or two brothers or sisters.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

As I pointed out earlier, Christ commended Mary for placing her gift upon His body, and that is all I am doing when I ask those who partake of the Lord’s table to help those who have made it all possible for us to be together. Christ had no problem accepting help from those to whom He ministered. That is how He has ordained that the gospel be preached, and He set us that example without ever soliciting funds for himself:

Luk 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
Luk 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Luk 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Paul taught what Christ taught by His example:

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1Co 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

Like Paul I will not solicit funds for my own use, but like Christ and His apostles, I will gladly ask for funds to help the needy saints and those who are led to host a time of study and fellowship.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
Rom 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

It was concerning this same gift for the poor saints that Paul solicited funds from the Corinthians:

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Am I doing anything differently from what Paul did? I think not, and that is the only circumstance under which I have ever “asked for money directly”.

While detractors will never be satisfied, they will not point to any scripture which is being spat upon in the way they themselves do, while telling you that the scriptures are not even the word of God.

So I commend you for detecting the bitterness, and I pray you will also consider that those who do not attempt to hide their disdain for the word of God, and who cannot hide their bitterness, will and do think nothing of deliberately lying and twisting what is said by those who are faithful to God’s word. It took place in the days of the apostles, and since that time “evil men and seducers [have only] wax[ed] worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived” to the extent that “if it were possible even the very elect should be deceived”.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Truer words have never been written or spoken.

Peter testifies to this principle:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Am I accusing my detractors of being “unlearned and unstable” and of “wresting” the things which are written on our website? While there are no doubt many honest and sincere people who disagree with the doctrines of scripture, there are also many who scriptures do indeed label as “unlearned and unstable”, even if they have many degrees to show to the world. I do not forget that I, too, was in Babylon just ‘yesterday’, and that I was as sincere then as I am today. That does not change the fact that I was “unlearned and unstable” and that I, too, was guilty of wresting the scriptures to my own predestined destruction of my own deceived old man.

As for giving money to a drunk or a drug addict, again I made it clear that the body of Christ is where the bulk of my giving takes place. If that came across as giving great sums to such people with no concern for how it was spent, then all I can make of that is that one of the problems of communicating by e-mail is that you cannot detect whether you have been misunderstood until you hear back from the person with whom you are communicating. I can just see a detractor taking that statement and making it say that I said God’s people should support drunks and drug addicts without considering whether they are being nothing more than enablers. So adding to what I said, here is what our Lord tells us:

Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Did Christ ever ask anyone He healed or fed with His loaves and fishes whether they were drunks or wife abusers or gluttons, etc? I do not see that in scripture, but I do see where the needs of the body of Christ and the needs of “the household of faith” are to be preferred over the needs of the poor of the world.

Here are our instructions, plain and simple:

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

“All men” does not exclude drunks or ungrateful lepers. Christ asked no questions when He was approached for His favors.

Luk 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
Luk 17:14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Luk 17:15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
Luk 17:16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
Luk 17:18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

Did Christ ask the adulteress whether she intended to continue as a prostitute before he forgave her sins? Of course not. He first forgave her sins, saved her from being stoned to death, and then He told her to “go and sin no more…”

So if you are approached on the street by a beggar, then by all means go with him if you wish and buy him a meal and make sure he doesn’t waste your charity on more wine or liquor. However, are you going to use that for an excuse not to give him enough money to satisfy his hunger simply because you do not have time to supervise how your alms are being spent? If that is what you feel led to do, then by all means do so, but I will gladly take that chance and let the Lord show me in His Word where I should supervise those I help to be sure my gift is used properly.

The last thing I want to do is to “think above what is written” (1Co 4:6).

I hope that clarifies what I meant by what I said in our last communication. Of course I care how my “alabaster box” of “three hundred pence” is spent, but I would never use “enabling an addict” as an excuse to refuse him a few dollars to buy a meal and then worry that it might be misspent, or feel guilty as an enabler if I am unable to make certain my alms were used in a righteous manner. My greater concern is that I might fail to minister to any legitimate need of my fellow man.

I want to be able to say that I trembled at these words:

Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Here is your last paragraph:

I hope we can continue our email replies, Mike. I am trying to be honest and to the point, something that within organized religion as you well know, is often looked down upon.

I too, hope we can continue our exchanges as long as we are both simply seeking to know the Truth. Indeed I am aware that honest questions concerning policy or doctrine are not welcome in organized historical Christian churches. I take great pleasure in encouraging all in our fellowship to ask any question whatever concerning the scriptures.

I cannot give you faith in the Word of God, and I am told to “avoid” those who have not yet been given that gift, and have not even been dragged to Christ or have apostatized from that God-given gift:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

We have been given very direct instructions for how we are to deal with differences within the body of Christ, but that is a subject which has been dealt with in great detail already, and is much too involved to deal with in a single e-mail.

I too, am being direct and straightforward. It is my prayer that you will hear the voice of the True Shepherd in the writings which you read on iswasandwillbe. com, and if you do not, please point it out. At the same time I pray that you are also given to also know the voice of a stranger and flee from him. A bitter and Bible-bashing voice is just that, and I would only hope you are given to deal with such a spirit in a Biblical way.

In closing, I am sorry if it sounds ‘ad hominem’ when I say that I have no idea what you are talking about when you say you have heard an elder say he is “incredibly humble”. I have never heard anyone in our fellowship make such a bragging statement, so you will just have to show that to me before I would have any idea where that comes from. Every brother and sister in this fellowship is very well aware that “without [Christ he/she] can do nothing” and that “no flesh should glory in His presence”. You will hear many say they have been ‘humbled’, which is what this life is all about.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)

If editing can make George Zimmerman say clearly for the whole nation to hear: “I am following a man, and he is a black man” by simply and deliberately leaving out the dispatcher asking for the man’s race, then I suppose you could indeed have heard what you say you heard, but consider the source you are going to for your information. My chief detractor is an admitted liar, and I have the e-mails in which he makes that brag. If that sounds like an attack on his character, then so be it. I must call a spade a spade. I sign my name to everything I write, and I dare say you don’t even know that writer’s name, simply because he never signs anything he writes. Just consider that while you read that bitter and twisted blog or site. If I am wrong and you can find his name, then please let me know.

I want very much to answer any sincere questions, but I hope you will see through what is being done and realize that bitterness and hatred is not worth spending a lot of time with, and we can get into questions which are in line with the things we are told to think on:

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Those “two or three witnesses” are not to be bitter Bible-bashing witnesses, but proven brothers who have been faithful to the word of God. That is not what you are reading on that site. We look for the best in everyone and allow for the fact that we are all at different stages of maturity, while still remaining faithful to the command that we are to “try the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1Jn 4:1).

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Your brother who counts it all joy to be persecuted for Christ’s name sake,

Mike