Isa 49:8-17 In a Day of Salvation Have I Helped You - Discussion

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Isa 49:8-17 In A Day of Salvation Have I Helped You

[Study Aired November 10, 2019]

Isa 49:8  Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Isa 49:9  That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
Isa 49:10  They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
Isa 49:11  And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
Isa 49:12  Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.
Isa 49:13  Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
Isa 49:14  But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
Isa 49:15  Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Isa 49:16  Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isa 49:17  Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.

These verses are the continuing thoughts of the Lord towards Isaiah as an Old Testament type of His Israel, His kingdom, His elect. As a reminder of what we discussed last week, here are the last three verses of that study, demonstrating that the Lord considers His elect to be his nation, His ‘Israel’ whom He is in the process of redeeming:

Isa 49:5  And now, saith the LORD that formed me [Isaiah] from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
Isa 49:6  And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isa 49:7  Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

“He shall choose thee” refers both to Isaiah as the Lord’s prophet while at the same time referring to “the Israel of God”, which is “the kingdom of God… within you” and within me. That is demonstrated in the way the Lord refers to Isaiah as Israel in the first three verses of this chapter:

Isa 49:1  Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
Isa 49:2  And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
Isa 49:3  And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Christ tells us that His ‘Israel’, His kingdom, is within us:

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

When the Pharisees asked Christ about “the kingdom of God”, they were asking about the kingdom of Israel, and in their mind it was a literal physical kingdom which was to dominate the rest of the world. ‘The kingdom of God’ to these Pharisees certainly was not a matter of “being a new creation” as it is described by the apostle Paul.

Gal 6:15  Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16  Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GWV)

The book of Isaiah and “the sum of [God’s] word” (Psa 119:160 ASV) demonstrates for us that anything said in scripture which refers to the Lord’s kingdom, also refers to the Lord’s people. As the Lord refers to Isaiah as Israel, He also refers to each and every one of the Lord’s people as His nation, and according to the Lord Himself, anything we do or say about those who are His, we are doing and saying it of Christ the Lord Himself and His anointed.

Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 

Mat 25:45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Knowing that the Lord refers to Isaiah and to each of us as His ‘Israel’ notice what he is saying to each of us:

Isa 49:8  Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Wow! Those words are addressed to you and me… “I will give you for a covenant of the people to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages.”

How are we to be “a covenant of the people to establish the earth”? The answer is disclosed by the Roman centurion seeking the healing of his servant:

Mat 8:5  And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Mat 8:6  And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Mat 8:7  And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
Mat 8:8  The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9  For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10  When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

We, too, are under authority, and while the only authority we are given at this time is over the kingdom of God within, the time will come when we will be given authority over the kingdoms of this world. When that day comes, all we will need do is to “speak the word only and, [we will] establish the earth, [and] cause to inherit the desolate heritages” as the new man increases and the old man decreases, first within ourselves, and then to others who are presently within the darkness and bondage of the prison of false doctrines and sin:

Isa 49:9  That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
Isa 49:10  They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

These are the Lord’s words which “shall never pass away”.

Mat 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

What this verse tells us is that these words of Isaiah had an application to Isaiah and his time, while at the same time applying presently and inwardly to each of us, and they also have a future application to our part as the rulers of the kingdoms of this world during the thousand-year reign, and then continuing right over into the lake of fire, white throne judgment.

We know these words apply in every age because these verses are quoted in the book of Revelation referring specifically to the great innumerable multitude who come up through the great tribulations of the lake of fire:

Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; [As opposed to those who are numbered as 144,000 in the preceding verses of Revelation 7]
Rev 7:10  And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11  And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12  Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16  They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 
Rev 7:17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters,: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Compare these last two verses of Revelation 7 with these verses of Isaiah 49:

Isa 49:9  That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
Isa 49:10  They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

While these words certainly apply to the Lord’s 144,000 firstfruits, they also apply to the innumerable multitude who are raised up to the great white throne judgment in the lake of fire.

Let’s take the time to contrast this great innumerable multitude, who also come up through great tribulation and who also wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb, with “the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb” who are numbered in the preceding verses of this 7th chapter of this book of “the revelation of Jesus Christ”:

Rev 7:1  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This very same group of 144,000 are called “the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb in Revelation 14:

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3  And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 
Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5  And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

“The firstfruits unto God and the Lamb” are called ‘first’ fruits because they are “the first to believe in Christ” in Ephesians 1.

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Paul was given to reveal to us that “we… who first trusted in Christ… in the dispensation of the fulness of times… have obtained an inheritance  … in Christ [to be] the manifested sons of God… [for whom] the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now, waiting [to be used of Christ to] gather together in one all things in [the] Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth”.

These “firstfruits” are given this prominence because they were predestined to be the channel of God’s judging grace upon all men of all time who were not granted to have a part of what Paul refers to as “the manifested sons of God” in Romans 8:

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 
Rom 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 
Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

“The whole creation” of verse 22 is the same as “all in Adam” of:

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

These verses here in 1Corinthians 15 give the lie to the false doctrine of the churches of Babylon which teach that “Today is the day of salvation” means that today is the only day of salvation.

2Co 6:2  (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Nothing is further from the Truth. The Truth is that ‘today is the day in which “it is not give to… the multitudes… to understand… the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Mat 13:11). But they will be given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven “each in his own order”, that order being “Christ the first [of the] firstfruits, afterward they that are are… the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb [Rev 14:14]… at His coming”. “Then comes the end” is neither “the end of the world” nor the beginning of eternal hell fire. Rather it is the harvest “at the end of the year” (Exo 23:16).

The plan of God for the salvation of all men is revealed in the annual festivals of ancient Israel. Christ is the first of the firstfruits, but it is very significant that the feast of Pentecost, the day on which the New Testament church began, is also called “the feast of firstfruits” in:

Exo 23:14  Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
Exo 23:15  [1] Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib [Passover]; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
Exo 23:16  And [2] the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field [Pentecost]: and [3] the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

Pentecost is called ‘Pentecost’ because Israel counted 7 weeks “until the morrow after the seventh week” making it 50 days, the word ‘Pente’ meaning 50, and the word ‘cost’ meaning ‘to count’. Lest there is any doubt about the meaning of “the firstfruits of your labors” in Exodus 23, these verses clarify for us that it is speaking of the feast of weeks, called ‘Pentecost’:

Exo 34:18  [1] The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

Exo 34:22  And thou shalt observe [2] the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and [3] the feast of ingathering at the year's end. 
Exo 34:23  Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.

James calls all who are called to suffer with Christ in “this present time” (Rom 8:18) “a kind of firstfruits”:

Jas 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

So, the first two harvests, 1) the spring barley harvest at the time of the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread, and 2) the summer wheat harvest of Pentecost, are both called firstfruit harvests. Passover is the offering of Christ and Pentecost is the offering of the church, which is His body, referred to as “they that are Christ’s at His coming, the 144,000… firstfruits unto God and the Lamb” (1Co 15:23 and Rev 14:4).

The use of the word ‘firstfruits’ in reference to those who are raised up in the first resurrection necessitates that there is also a “harvest at the year’s end, which will dwarf, for sheer numbers, the previous resurrection which takes place at the beginning of the thousand-year reign of Christ and His Christ, His anointed, of whom we are told:

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Being given power over all the power of the enemy in the kingdom of God within us in this present time and being “exalted” to the position of “kings and priests” under Christ during the thousand-year reign is the fulfillment of our next verses:

Isa 49:11  And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
Isa 49:12  Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.
Isa 49:13  Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

We are the Lord’s ‘mountains’ and His ‘highways’. “The dream is one” (Gen 41:25-26). We have already demonstrated that when the Lord speaks to the “heavens and the earth” this, too, is speaking to His people who will indeed “be joyful… and break forth into singing” when the Lord comforts His people and has mercy upon His afflicted.

However, that day comes only through being brought to our wits’ end, to the extent that we cry out “My God, My God why have you forsaken me?“ That day will come to us only “through much tribulation” (Act 14:22, having all) the wood, hay, and stubble (1Co 3:13-16), burned out of our lives by “the fiery trials which are to try” [us] (1Pe 4:12) and by being tormented day and night in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb (Rev 14:6-12) [by having] the seven plagues of the seven angels fulfilled [in our lives].

Rev 15:7  And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 15:8  And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

This book of Isaiah is the source of all those New Testament prophecies, so Isaiah tells us:

Isa 49:14  But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
Isa 49:15  Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

These words are repeated in:

Isa 54:7  For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8  In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

“I… have forsaken thee but with great mercies will I gather thee… I hid my face from you… in a little wrath, but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on you” is just another way of saying:

Isa 49:16  Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isa 49:17  Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.

The Lord must pour out His wrath upon us and hide His face from us for a moment before we can enter into His temple. We are all Joseph’s brothers who sell him for twenty pieces of silver before we are brought to our wits’ end (Psa 107:27) and granted repentance in ‘this present time’ (Rom 8:18). When that takes place our flesh and our old man has served their purpose, and we can then begin to “die daily” (1Co 15:31), be “crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:20), and “present [our] bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God” (Rom 12:1), and our new man can begin to increase as our old man begins to decrease day by day (Joh 3:30).

We will “make haste” to trim our lamps and be ready for the bridegroom, and our enemies and “destroyers who have made waste, of [us] will go forth of [us]” just as Joseph’s brothers went forth from him at his words and only after they had bowed down to him and had worshipped at his feet:

Gen 42:6  And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Gen 45:9  Haste ye, and go up to my father, and say unto him, Thus saith thy son Joseph, God hath made me lord of all Egypt: come down unto me, tarry not:
Gen 45:10  And thou shalt dwell in the land of Goshen, and thou shalt be near unto me, thou, and thy children, and thy children's children, and thy flocks, and thy herds, and all that thou hast:
Gen 45:11  And there will I nourish thee; for yet there are five years of famine; lest thou, and thy household, and all that thou hast, come to poverty.

If our old man is made to bow to Christ within us in “this present time” (Rom 8:18), then our brothers in Babylon will be made to come and worship at our feet and to know the Lord has loved us:

Rev 3:9  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

That is our study for today. Here are our verses for our next study:

Isa 49:18  Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
Isa 49:19  For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
Isa 49:20  The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
Isa 49:21  Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?
Isa 49:22  Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
Isa 49:23  And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.
Isa 49:24  Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?
Isa 49:25  But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.
Isa 49:26  And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Mike,

​Thanks for answering my questions. Another one I have is, will people like Esau, Adam, Saul and those in Babylon be saved?

T____

Hi T____,

​Thank you for your questions. You ask if Esau and Adam, Saul, and those in Babylon will be saved.

​Yes, Esau and Adam, Saul, and all who are in Babylon, as well as “all things which are in the heavens and which are on earth and under the earth will “in the dispensation of the fulness of times” be reconciled and redeemed to the Father in Christ.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 

Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Php2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

​There is nothing outside of “heaven and… earth”, and here we are told that “all things… in heaven… and earth… in the dispensation of the fulness of times [will be] gathered together… reconciled…  in one… in Christ”.

​The Greek word translated “mystery” in Ephesians 1:9 is:

G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay’-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or “mystery” (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): – mystery.

​Indeed Ephesians 1:10 is until this very day “a secret”, known by only a very few:

Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

​So this wonderful message has been kept as a secret known by only a very few to whom it has been revealed only since the time of Christ and was known by none of the Old Testament principles who “ministered not unto themselves, but [only] unto us”:

We have a question that has tripped us up in our study this morning.

We completely understand how Christ is in us and we are in him in a spiritual meaning. We also understand that we still are trapped in our carnal flesh.

The reality of our position will be realized completely at the destruction of our flesh at the second coming.

The verse we have a question on:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

We also understand that Christ in God and God is in Christ, so how can Christ say he had ascended, leavening his physical flesh at this point in his ministry?

Does the word “ascension” here have the same meaning as the ascension after his crucifixion? What are we missing?

In Christ,

C____

Hello C____,

I think you know that we are called to such trials because:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

So just “count it all joy” (Jas 1:2-3), and we will rejoice with you that the Lord has preserved you until this very day.

Here is the verse of which you inquire:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Once you see the scriptures explaining what Christ means by His words, you will have a much greater appreciation of where you are with Christ at this very moment.

I do not know what translation you are using, but this translation does not give you the complete statement which Christ made to Nicodemus. Here is the whole verse in the KJV:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

What Christ is revealing to us here is that ‘heaven’, the dwelling place of God, is not a geographical location, but rather it is a spiritual realm into which we can and do enter when we are in Christ.

Here are Christ’s own words on this very subject:

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

“That day” is the day of our conversion when the holy spirit is given to us, and we begin to be judged in this age. This fact is made clear in the preceding verses:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he [Christ Himself] dwelleth with you, and [through His Father’s spirit He] shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

So there it is! Christ is in us and we are in Him and He and we are in His “Father which [is] in heaven”, all by and through His Father’s spirit within us.

Paul realized all of this and tells us where we are at this very moment in Christ:

Eph 2:6 So that we came back from death with him, and are seated with him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus; (BBE)

We “are [at this very moment] seated with [Christ] in the heavens, in Christ Jesus”.

Hebrews tells us the very same thing:

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

That is who we are, and that is where we are.

I will conclude with this one basic Truth contained in this verse:

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It will take some time for the depth of that Truth to sink in, but you and I are at this very moment “ascended into heaven… at the right hand of God… in Christ” (Eph 2:6).

I hope this helps you to better understand what Christ told Nicodemus in John 3:13:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Your brother who sits with you at the Lord’s right hand “in the heavens”. Mike

Wow, Mike,

I’m very glad to have stumbled onto your website. I was really trying to find out how God answered David. It sounds so easy; David inquired of the Lord and God said to pursue them. How did God talk to David? Now that the Holy Spirit resides in us, it seems that it’s still hard to determine what God’s will is for me or to hear God’s voice.

C____

Hi C____,

Thank you for taking the time to write.

You ask:

How did God talk to David?

Here is what the scriptures tell us:

1Sa 23:2 Therefore David enquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the LORD said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines, and save Keilah.
1Sa 23:4 Then David enquired of the LORD yet again. And the LORD answered him and said, Arise, go down to Keilah; for I will deliver the Philistines into thine hand.

Any time you see the word LORD in the King James in all caps like that, it is taken from the Hebrew word Yahweh. There are many such instances where David spoke directly with Yahweh, just as did many others before him. We will begin with Adam and Eve:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?
Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Yahweh also spoke with and appeared to many other Old Testament patriarchs and kings and prophets, including King David, just as we talk to each other today.

But for us now, it is a matter of knowing the voice of the True shepherd through His Words. That is a blessing which is given to very few indeed.

Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

It is my prayer that you will recognize the “voice” of the True Shepherd in the writings on iswasandwillbe. com. I would also encourage you to read Rightly Dividing The Word in the essential reading section of the iswasandwillbe. com web site.

Here is that link:

http:// iswasandwillbe. com/ understandingbible. php

I hope this answers your question. The fact that King David, and so many others, saw and talked with Yahweh, tells us that Yahweh was none other than Christ Himself, the Word of God.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

I hope this has served to answer your questions.

Your brother in His service,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks to your site and you I have a much better understanding of the scriptures and God’s plan. Yet I don’t understand what these verses are getting at:

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

Thanks in advance,
W____

Hi W____,
Thank you for your question.

You ask about the issue of binding and loosing in Mat 16:19 and 18:18?

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The King James is translated in such a way as to make one think that you and I are the rulers of this earth at this very moment, and God’s will concerning this earth is entirely dependent upon what you or I loose or bind. Of course that is not the case, because if it were, then Christ would never have told us “After this manner pray ye… thy will be done, in earth, as it is in heaven.”

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

There is also this.

1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

Anyone who has the slightest concept of the sovereignty of God will realize the depth of the truth of this verse:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own wil l:

So when some ‘name it and claim it’ minister tells you that Isa 45:11 is giving you the authority to tell God what to do, just know you are not hearing the voice of the true shepherd who tells you and me to ask for God’s will to be done in this earth. Here is Isa 45:11 in the King James Version, compared with a translation which gives us a much clearer understanding of what Isa 45:11 is really saying.

Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Here now is the much clearer God News Bible translation of this verse.

Isa 45:11 The LORD, the holy God of Israel, the one who shapes the future, says: “You have no right to question me about my children or to tell me what I ought to do! (GNB)

So now that we know who really is in charge, let’s look at the verses you ask about, and let’s see if this same Good News Bible translation, can make these verses any clearer for us.

Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you prohibit on earth will have been prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven.

Young’s Literal Translation also gets this right.

Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.’

The New American Standard Bible also gets the right translation of this verse:

Mat 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

So anything we do on earth “shall have been” already written by God in His book before any of our days ever were.

Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Now that is the truth of the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation. God alone is sovereign, and even the evil that happens in this earth is His work through the instruments which He has created to perform those deeds.

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

There are those who will even tell you that God has no interest in and says nothing concerning what He is doing on this earth, but “let God be true and every man a liar”.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God is working every detail of this life, including the lies of every man, “after the counsel of His own will” (Eph 1:11).
Here is a rather conclusive group of verses on this subject. They are but four verses prior to verse 11 which the ‘name it and claim it’ bunch twists to their own destruction.

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Do not permit some Babylonian minister to tell you that the word translated ‘evil’ here, should be ‘calamity’.
This is the Hebrew word ‘ra’. It is the same Hebrew word translated ‘evil’ in this verse:

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God did not create a ‘tree of good and calamity’, and neither does he ‘make wicked men for the day of calamity’. This is what He does:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Mat 18:18 is the same as Mat 16:19. It is all “written in God’s book” long before it is done on this earth.

I hope this all helps you to see how Mat 16:19 and 18:18 should have been translated, and I hope you now see that you and I have, and all that happens in this world, has been “predestinated according to the purpose of Him who is working all things after the counsel of His own will.”

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

[Updated July 31, 2025 by Nicholas Ondari – see below this FAQ]

Hi Mike,

I have searched several sites, including yours, in trying to get more understanding on the subject below. A long time friend of mine out of the old WCG has written this piece and claims as seen below, that spirit beings having sex with physical beings were producing offspring. As he explains the sons of God having sexual relationships with the daughters of men. I would appreciate any input you can give that will help me get him back on solid ground. I recognize the amount of work he has put into this, and he claims that it all came from scripture. But I suspect that he has been influenced in the past by the Shepherd’s Chapel teachings. I know that you are always overloaded, but would appreciate some vision from your vast store of knowledge. Reading this just sort of makes my head hurt, I don’t understand it, nor do I believe it, but I haven’t been able to jar him off course. I’ll just include the part of his discourse that deals with the question.

Let me continue on.
Gen 6:1 And it came to pass when men (here is The eth- Ha adam) began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. (The eth- Ha adam) 2 That the sons of God (Elohiym) saw the daughters of men (The eth- Ha adam) that they were fair; and they took them wives of all they chose. 3 And the LORD (Yhovah) said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, (The eth- Ha adam) for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (Elohiym) came in unto the daughters of men, (The eth- Ha adam) and they bare children to them, (the Elohiym) the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Here is the same Elohiym that was in Gen 1:26. In there image we were made. We look like them. If we were made in there likeness then they have sex organs also. This was not Cain’s line for Cain was an (ish).
28 And God (Elohiym) blessed them .(Adam, mankind) and God (Elohiym) said unto them,.(Adam, mankind) “Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
This tells me the following . 1. Man was made in the image of the Elohiym. 2. After the likeness of the (Elohiym). 3. With this I have come to see that Man which has a penis was made in the image of God (Elohiym). 4. So the sons of God as in Job 1:6 have to have one as well.

Thank you in advance, and keep the home fires burning there in Flowery Branch.
YBIC,
L____

Hi L____,
Thank you for your question about angels marrying “the daughters of men.”

The word ‘angels’ is used throughout scripture in reference to messengers, be they human or spirit messengers. The context reveals which is under consideration. Here is a passage of scripture in which the Hebrew word for messenger refers to both types of messengers in the same passage:

Num 20:14 And Moses sent messengers from Kadesh unto the king of Edom, Thus saith thy brother Israel, Thou knowest all the travail that hath befallen us:
Num 20:15 How our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time; and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers:
Num 20:16 And when we cried unto the LORD, he heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us forth out of Egypt: and, behold, we [are] in Kadesh, a city in the uttermost of thy border:

The word ‘messengers’ in verse 14 and the word ‘angel’ in verse 16 are both translated from the single Hebrew word ‘malak’, and both angels and humans are called “sons of God” in scripture.

There is one very important Biblical distinction between these two types of “sons of God”, and it comes to us via the preeminent Son of God Himself. Here is what He reveals to us concerning the ‘sons of God’ or the spirit realm:

Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

“Ye know not the scriptures” refers to the Old Testament scriptures. If Genesis 6:2 is referring to angels as “sons of God”, then it would have been Christ who “knew not the scriptures.”

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Now if these “sons of God” are the sons of Seth, as God’s sons in the same sense as Israel is called God’s son after the flood, and since Seth’s genealogy is given us as separated from Cain’s genealogy in chapters 4 and 5 of Genesis, then this statement concerning Noah’s genealogy makes perfect sense:

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Apparently Noah’s family was the only family left whose generations had not married into the “sons of men”, the sons of Cain’s generations. All the rest of Seth’s descendants “saw the daughters of men [daughters of Cain’s descendants] that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose” just as Israel’s descendants did at a later date.

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

God had placed within Adam the genes for producing every race of mankind and every size of mankind. To this day we have an incredible range of sizes, shapes, characteristics and colors of men and women.
Here is a statement in his email:

“28 And God (Elohiym) blessed them. (Adam, mankind) and God (Elohiym) said unto them,.(Adam, mankind) “Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

This tells me the following. 1. Man was made in the image of the Elohiym. 2. After the likeness of the (Elohiym). 3. With this I have come to see that Man which has a penis was made in the image of God (Elohiym). 4. So the sons of God as in Job 1:6 have to have one as well.”

Here this brother points out that “Adam’ is “mankind”, both male and female.

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

This being so, females are also Adam, and Adam having a penis is only half of Adam. God did not use a penis with Mary to conceive Christ. He supernaturally impregnated Mary so that she was still a physical virgin. Angels “neither marry nor are given in marriage” (Mat 12:25).

The spiritual significance of the penis of a man is to demonstrate by “the things that are made” that life is not inherent within flesh, and that Christ must come into us from outside of our flesh. We are all “born of the spirit” in order to become “the sons of God.” Physical sex is simply a type and shadow of that spiritual conception. That is why we are called “the bride, the lamb’s wife.”

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

Just as a woman must be impregnated from something outside of herself in order to bring forth a child, so must the church, you and I, the bride and wife of Christ, receive the impregnation of the holy spirit, the words of Christ, from outside of our flesh, before a spiritual son of God can be conceived.

The entire spirit world is referred to as “the sons of God” because we are plainly told that God is “the father of spirits.”

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So when Job refers to “the sons of God… shouting for joy”, he is referring to the angels who had been created on the fifth day, as symbolized by “the fowls of heaven.” Just as mankind is created on the sixth day, and is symbolized by the beasts which were created on the sixth day, so, too, is the spirit world created on the fifth day, and it is symbolized by “the fowls of the air.”

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

It is by God’s own design that we are all born with the mark of being created on the sixth day. Three sixes are simply the process of the maturing and judging of the beast mankind has always been “by nature” (Eph 2:3).

The spirit world, on the other hand, is symbolized in scripture by “the fowls of the air.” It is Christ Himself who reveals this symbol to us. In His parable about the sower He tells us that some of the seeds are devoured by “the fowls of the air.”

Mar 4:4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

What do “the fowls of the air” symbolize? Here is Christ’s interpretation of His own symbol:

Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Here is how Matthew says the same thing:

Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

When was the spirit world created? When were “the fowls of the air” created?

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

So “the Father of spirits” had those spirits in place just in time to “shout for joy” when the foundations of the world were laid when Adam was created on the sixth day.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

The blood of the prophets has been being shed “from the foundation of the world.” When was “the foundation of the world?” It was “from the blood of Abel” who was the son and a contemporary of Adam.
So Adam and Abel constitute “the foundation of the world” in Biblical language, and when God asks Job:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

His point is that Job did not yet exist, at that time, but “the sons of God”, the realm of the spirit, had already been put in place and rejoiced with their Creator at the foundations of the earth and the creation of mankind, who is referred to in scripture as the “earth” as “the dust of the earth” and as “clay.”

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Jer 22:29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

So when were the things in the heavens and on the earth created? We need not guess:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This is a long and no doubt sincere effort on the part of this brother. I have pointed out the Biblical principles and the verses of scripture which this brother has overlooked. I hope this is of some edification to both you and him.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

=========================================

[Updated July 31, 2025]

[Below is an in depth addition to this question of angels marrying women written by our brother Nicholas Ondari]

The Legacy of the Sons of God

Who Were the Sons of God in Genesis 6?

Here is my preamble: God has always had from the beginning a priesthood to administer His covenant(s). The earliest and most ancient priesthood was called “the sons of God” which began with Adam (the man). This earliest priesthood messed up by “marrying the whore” (call it polygamy) and bringing forth wild offspring which elsewhere in the bible is called “mixed seed.” This led to rampant wickedness and evil and ultimately to the destruction of the whole world by water. Angels do not marry!

Seth’s line was God’s chosen people before the flood. God has always had a priesthood and Seth’s priesthood ended with the preacher, Noah, before the flood.

2Pe 2:5  And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Adam (male and female) were made in the similitude of Elohim (the Godhead).

Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 

She was given the name Eve by her husband, not by God (Elohim). Just as Jesus the son came forth from the father (His hubby), Eve (the wife) came forth out of Adam (the husband) by God piercing his side and bringing forth Adam’s bride. The church (Christ’s Bride) also came forth from her husband Jesus Christ when on the cross He was pierced on His side. Since the Godhead (Elohim) is The Father and The Son, and there is none else (including the Holy Spirit of God) to that relationship, this is a monogamous relationship. All accurate priesthoods have to be patterned after this monogamous template and not the so-called trinity! 

This is the similitude (image and likeness) in which God created Adam (male and female). It had nothing to do with the physical image and likeness since God is Spirit! This mystery of the Godhead (Father-Son relationship) is what the husband-and-wife relationship tries to decode in things which are perceptible/physical (Rom 1:20). There is no third person. It was a monogamous relationship from the beginning. The Father begat Yeshua His son to bring forth and mother creation. Adam was given Eve to mother all living, Jesus Christ is “begetting” His bride to be the saviour of all in Adam! The vision is one! It is all monogamous without a break from the beginning.

……when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, means came into their houses and chambers, and lay with them in polygamous relationships. These ancient sons of God did not keep to sanctity and divine order of monogamous relationships after the similitude of the Godhead as designed by Elohim from the beginning.

We can therefore conclude that the sons of God (Sethites) were driven by lust of the flesh, and of the eye and of the pride of life (1Jn 2:16), to marry the daughters of men (Cainites) as second, third, fourth, etc wives and their giant offspring combined forces with the Nephilim who already existed, to bully and terrorize entire populations. Nephilim were greatly feared because of their height and strength, with great violence, and oppressed their victims in a cruel and tyrannical manner. Genesis 6:4 tells us that the sons of God went to the daughters of men and produced children who were mighty men of old and renown! It had nothing to do with Angelic beings marrying human women. Angels neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 
Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 

Before the Noahsian flood, all humanity (Adam’s progeny) had become evil and violent especially against those regarded as the sons of God. This is traditionally regarded as the reason, God hid Enoch, …..and he was not! (He did not take Enoch to heaven because scripture tells us Enoch died – Heb 11:13).

Gen 6:4  The Nephilim were on the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and they bore sons to them, the same were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. 
Gen 6:5  And God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6  And LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him in his heart.

In the midst of all this evil, Noah “walked with God” and was considered one of the three most righteous people to have ever lived (Genesis 6:8-9, Ezekiel 14:14, 20). Noah, from the family of Seth, was in this ancient priesthood, called the sons of God.

One can imagine what cruelty, danger, risk Noah faced for 120 years. 

Luke tells us that Adam was the son of God (Luk 3:38). Adam fathered Seth, and it is also from Seth’s descendants that the great patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are born and from which the tribes of Israel came into existence. Israel rejected this sonship royal priesthood. This is what God sent Moses to tell the people….

Exo 19:5  Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 
Exo 19:6  And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 

Here is the people’s response;

Exo 20:18  And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
Exo 20:19  And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 

Since it has always been God’s intentional purpose and will to have a family of sons, this priesthood is now with the NT sons of God, the called, chosen and faithful (the elect). Please observe carefully that some of the phrases, terms and words are exactly what He offered to Israel.

1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 
1Pe 2:10  Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 

Joh 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 

Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 

Php 2:15  That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 

1Jn 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 

This priesthood of sons in Christ shall be the 144,000. I must point out here that New Testament sonship and priesthood is of a completely different order from that of Seth. Our priesthood is after the order of Christ. We are so privileged and blessed to belong to this final priesthood. KJV erroneously mistranslates this priesthood to be an everlasting priesthood, but we know Christ must rule until He hands over the kingdom to the Father. So, I wish to quote Rotherham instead of KJV;

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant—not of letter, but of spirit, for, the letter, killeth, whereas, the Spirit, maketh alive. (Rotherham) 

Heb 6:20  Where a forerunner in our behalf hath entered, even Jesus, who, according to the rank of Melchizedek, hath become, a high-priest unto times age-abiding. (Rotherham).

 [Author may be reached for comment or questions at:  niq2003@ hotmail.com]

Hi M____,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, and thank you for your questions.
This e- mail is very provocative, and it provides an overview of our entire experience, first as “the first Adam”, on this earth, then as the “the last Adam… seated with Christ in the heavens… in earnest” or in down payment “of the purchased possession” (Eph 1:14), which is the “end of our faith, the salvation of our souls”.
I will comment after each paragraph, and I hope this will confirm for you with a few more verses of scripture, the validity of your conclusion.

Mike,

Thanks again for the exchange… it is always edifying and encouraging.

On another note – I was reading Mat 5 (see below) and I believe I ‘saw’ something in the Mat 5:18 (see underlined words) that I had not seen before. Again, I would appreciate any feedback you may have.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [ them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

“Till heaven and earth pass away…”

We know from Revelation ‘there is a new heaven and a new earth’… we also know ‘earth’ is a type of us (Jer 22:29 ‘Earth, earth, here the Words of the Lord’) and heaven is the opposite of earth and means the highest realm of the spirit and is also where God’s throne is – in the hearts and minds of His Elect – heaven). We know that we are under tutors and governors (i. e. The Law which is NOT made for the righteous, but its function is to bring us to Christ) UNTIL faith comes… at that point we are bound to a spiritual law (the new covenant, differing and better than the old). At this point we also receive the Spirit of God, in earnest, which causes us to ‘die daily’ and begin to mature in Christ until (future from this point in our spiritual progression) we receive our purchased possession (a spiritual body). So, in earnest of the spirit, from an is, was and will be perspective, this (i. e. heaven and earth is passing away as I am being made a new creature in Christ, old things are passing away – like the old heavens of my heart and mind and my old earth, “dying daily”) is being fulfilled, even now (in earnest) in my own life. So, ..”till heaven and earth pass away” is ‘will be’ for many (all) yet it is even now, according to the appointed time of the Father, to a few.

Comment:
That is exactly right. The “new heavens and new earth” of Old Testament prophecies are ours in down payment form even now, if indeed Christ, “the hope of glory” is living His resurrected life in us. If Christ is in us, then these verses are spiritually true at this very moment:

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

You and I are “the earth” (Jer 22:29), and you and I are, in Christ the “little child” who is teachable. We are now that “offering unto the Lord” (Rom 12:1). Here is what the New Testament scriptures teach concerning who we now are:

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

If Christ is in us, we are then “seated with Him in the heavens” and are “walking in the spirit” here on earth, just as Christ did when He was in an earthen vessel on this earth:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [ places] in Christ Jesus:

Those who are granted this honor in this age must still “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”, including these words of Peter:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

If we do not suffer the loss of our works now, we will do so later, and doing so later in the “great white throne judgment… the lake of fire” is what we want to avoid at all cost, even the cost of our old heavens and our old earth. What we want is to see all of our own works burned out of us in this age, not in the next age.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

“Suffering the loss” of our own works is exactly what we must all experience, in our own appointed time. Let us beg God that this life be our appointed time. Whether we “lose our lives” now or later, we must lose our lives before any of us will find life:

Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

End of comment.

To summarize the personal application of this scripture. The law (of Moses) is NOT made for a righteous man (1Ti 1:9) it is made for an unrighteous man (i. e. me). It is my tutor to bring me to Christ, so until Christ comes to me personally, I am under the law (every jot and tittle will be fulfilled in my life – I will live by every word…) but when Christ comes to me by His Spirit and destroys the beast with the brightness of His coming, I am no longer under an inferior tutor but under a better and more challenging spiritual law (given newness of life) and will be given the ability to live by it – because it is Christ in me that is doing it. As my old man dies, and I ‘put on the new man’ (Christ in me, the hope of glory) and live by the faith of Christ, in effect the old heaven and the old earth has passed away (or is passing away through this spiritually maturing process… it will actually pass away when every jot and tittle… every word that proceeds from God… has been fulfilled in me..). Each person in each generation will live out this pattern (heaven and earth passing away) at the appointed time of the father. Am I rightly dividing the word here and using a pattern of sound words?

Comment:
You say:

“… The old heaven and the old earth has passed away (or is passing away through this spiritually maturing process… it will actually pass away when every jot and tittle… every word that proceeds from God… has been fulfilled in me…)”.

I am so pleased that you see that this is a process that continues throughout this life, because that is what Christ taught, and that is what He experienced:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

End Comment

If we endure till the end, we will be saved. What is the end? Is it the end of our life in this aion (our last breath)? Or is it the end of our old man/ sin dominating our life… is the end when all has been fulfilled (see Mat 24) in our life— when the old heavens/ earth has passed away – is that the end discussed around our salvation? I know we will battle this flesh (and the sin in its members) until it is shed and we are given a new spiritual body, but is the Scripture’… If we endure till the ‘end’ we will be saved’ talking about enduring to the end of sin dominating our life? Just a thought.

Comments/ feedback?

Blessings,

M____

Comment:

It is definitely both considering the life of our Lord. We endure as we “die daily” (1Co 15:31), and we endure as we are “crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:20). If it is given to us to do so we, learn with the apostles, to “rejoice in our sufferings… to the end”. The death of Christ demonstrates for us that the seven last plagues are upon our flesh, which cries out “Father isn’t there some other way?” It is when we are given to “rejoice in our suffering” that we too can say “Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done”.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

We have all been taught that Christ died for us so we would not have to die. Paul, and all of God’s Word, teaches us that phrases like “through the blood of His cross… through death”, should be viewed as “In the body of His flesh” being “rejoicing in [ our own] suffering… for His body the church… filling up that which is behind of the sufferings of The Christ”, because Christ is not complete without us, and we are certainly not complete without Him.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us- ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [ him] at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

It is “the church which is His body which is the fulness of Christ, and it is Christ which fills His Father. “Christ’s inheritance is [ only] in His saints”.
I pray it is given to all of us to endure with our Lord “in the body of His flesh” which we are, to fill up what is behind of the afflictions of the Christ… to the [ very] end”.
I hope I have answered that question for you. If it is still unclear, please let me know.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [ In our flesh “filling up what is behind of the afflictions of the Christ”]
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It is “that spirit of antichrist” which teaches that Christ died for us so we don’t have to die”. That is the spirit which dominates the orthodox Christian church, and that is the spirit we are given to resist and overcome.
Your brother in the Christ,
Mike

What have we just been told in this, the first verse of the Word Of God? We are later told that “Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool” (Isa 66:1). Did God not have a dwelling place before he created the heavens and the earth? Why would God need a throne in heaven or the earth for a footstool? Is God trying to distance Himself from mankind? No, of course not! Rather He wants us to see how close He is to us.

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

He is intent on impressing upon us the extent of his sovereignty over His entire creation.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The natural man cannot see the point that God is making. Why would that be?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To the natural man, heaven is a geographical location. It is simply in a different geographical location in the universe from us. Rest assured, to the natural man, heaven is a tangible, physical planet. It is “out there” in space. It is always just beyond the scope of the cameras of the Hubble telescope. Just like the ‘new body’ promised to the overcomer, heaven is proclaimed to be both spiritual and physical. Or as many put it, both spiritual and real. To the natural man, a mere spiritual body is not a ‘real body’.

I once asked a highly respected Concordant minister, “Are you telling me that you believe that heaven is a physical planet?” “Yes”, he retorted, “I believe that heaven is a real physical planet!” Spiritual things, you must understand, are not quite ‘real’ to the natural man. “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So the mind of the natural man cannot receive the concept of an invisible, “as the wind”, spiritual heaven. He cannot receive the concept of an invisible, “as the wind”, spiritual body. The natural mind shudders at such an unappealing disgusting thought. It is absolute foolishness to the mind of the natural man. Nevertheless, what saith the scripture?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him [Nicodemus], Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water [unstable flesh “marred in the hand of the Potter” (Jer 18:4)] and of the Spirit [“made again another vessel, as seemed good to the Potter to make it”], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? [The natural reaction of the mind of the ‘natural man.’]
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another [entirely different] vessel [a new man, born of the spirit], as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Not one word of these verses of scripture, straight from the mouth of our Savior, can possibly be “received by the natural man” who rules in the pulpits of the churches of orthodox Christianity.

“No man hath ascended to heaven?” Why Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David and all the prophets were all, at the very moment Christ made this statement, sitting securely in the heavens with God the Father, according to most Christian ministers. Some may be aware of the words ‘Abraham’s bosom’ and the word ‘Paradise’, and they may make some slight distinction between these words and the word ‘heaven’. However, not one of the ministers of the orthodox Christian community believes that “flesh is [exclusively] flesh,” and “spirit is [exclusively] spirit.” They certainly do not believe that “No man hath ascended to heaven…” After all,” they ask me all the time, “what about Enoch and Elijah?” Be sure to read our letter on this subject at the link provided.

By now it should be clear that the words of Genesis mean more to the “mind of the spirit” (1Co 2:14) than they do the the mind of “the natural man”. It is not because the natural man cannot read. He can read the words. What he cannot do is receive the things of the spirit. Why can’t he receive the things of the spirit? Is it because he doesn’t keep everything in its proper context? No, that is not the reason that the natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit. He can and does ‘keep things in context’. (Be sure to read Rightly Dividing the Word Using a Principle That Only the Apostles Understood.

The reason that the natural man “cannot receive the things of the spirit” is because “they are foolishness unto him.”

So it is with this word ‘heaven’. According to the Word of God, ‘heaven’, in the scriptural sense of this word, is not a geographical location or a planet with a physical city called ‘New Jerusalem’ as its capital. Rather heaven, as revealed in scripture, is in the hearts and minds of God’s elect saints. What reveals to us this Truth are the statements of scripture concerning God’s elect, whom He also refers to as the “overcomers” and the “manchild who is to rule all nations”, the “kings and priests who will reign on earth” and “the four beasts and the four and twenty elders before the throne of God.” What is said of this last group shows us exactly, in scriptural terms, where God tells us He “dwells”. What is said of this group shows us where God “rests”, where His “throne” is, where His “temple” is and where His “habitation” and His “tabernacle” are. We will cover all of the scriptures that substantiate these assertions, including the scriptures relating to the “four beasts and the four and twenty elders” later in this study. But for the sake of emphasis, let me repeat: ‘Heaven’ was created by God “in the beginning”. God has no beginning, so ‘heaven’ has not always existed. God is not contained by the heavens. Nevertheless, He tells us for our benefit that…

… The LORD he is God in heaven above…(Deu 4:39), and Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne… (Isa 66:1).

So while it is true that God is “IN US”, and this is certainly scriptural, it is likewise scripturally true that we are “IN HIM”, and not a few places mention that God is “WITH us” even though He is simultaneously “IN us”. Again, this only proves that “the heavens, even the heavens of the heavens, CANNOT CONTAIN HIM.” There is MORE to God than can be “contained” in the “heavens” of MEN! God is IN US, we are IN GOD, we are with WITH GOD, and God is WITH US. These statements are ALL Scripturally true.

Act 17:28 For in him we [including these pagan Athenians] live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

An Analogy of “Being Born of Water”

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [later] of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

While it is not possible to describe accurately the vastness of God’s presence, an analogy might be helpful at this point. Let us say, for the sake of this analogy, that “God” is the living waters of the great ocean. Mankind are the fish. Fish, like humans, are mostly water. God, the GREAT “LIVING WATERS”, is IN US (in His fish), and we are IN THE WATER [surrounded and totally engulfed in God], yet God is also WITH US, but… BUT, even all the fish of the ocean cannot “contain” God.

So.. as the Great God of the OCEAN does indeed dwell in His fish, and His fish dwell in Him, and He dwells with all His fish, nevertheless, the OCEAN is TRILLIONS of times larger and grander and mightier than the fish in which He ALSO DWELLS.

1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I [King Solomon] have builded?

With this understanding of the truth of the vastness of the omnipresence of God, let us return to our study of how scriptures view the use of the word ‘heaven’.

To the natural man, the creation story in Genesis is simply an historical account of the creation of the “physical” universe as we know and “see” it. If our definition of “heaven” is the “realm of Spirit”, then this Genesis account of creation is only a type and shadow of the creation of the “heavens and earth” within us. God does NOT dwell in “the firmament above the earth which contain the clouds, sun, moon, and stars.” So Christ informs us:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ claims that HE was simultaneously “in heaven” and “came down from heaven”. Does that sound like foolishness to you? That is almost as confusing as:

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

“Is not, and yet is?” Just how contradictory can you get? Such is the confusion of the mind of the natural man. These words are all “foolishness unto him.” Be sure to read the letter on Understanding the book of Revelation.

All Things Are In Christ

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Moses informs us that ‘heaven’ was created at the exact same time as the earth. We need to know that in the Hebrew this word is always in the plural:

Exo 20:11 For in six days Yahweh dealt with the heavens and earth, the sea and all that is in them, and He stopped on the seventh day. Therefore, Yahweh blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it. [CLV]

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is… [KJV]

But the “One God, the Father” (1Co 8:6) of course existed quite well before there ever was a heaven, and He will do very well when “the heavens shall pass away.” If indeed heaven is God’s elect, how then can it be said that heaven was created at the same time as the earth? Here is “the Way” God did that:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning [Hebrew 7225: reshiyth – firstfruit – see Lev 23:10 – in Christ] God created the heaven and the earth.

What a revealing statement! God created all things, including His elect, “In the firstfruits”. He created everything “in Christ”. Here are the scriptures:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:13 Who [the Father] hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us [God’s elect] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him [the firstborn – the reshiyth] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. [Be sure to read Is God a Trinity]

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits [same word as ‘beginning’ in Gen 1:1] of your harvest unto the priest:

So Where is God?

The scriptures tell us that God is in the heavens.

Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Again:

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

If these verses do not teach us the omnipresence of God, then we surely have been “given eyes that we cannot see and ears that we cannot hear.”

Mat 13:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Look at what Paul tells us of God’s omnipresence. Speaking to the pagan Athenians, Paul makes this assertion:

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

So according to Paul, under the inspiration of God’s spirit, even the pagan Athenians “live and move and have their being” in God. It should be painfully obvious by now that God is far too great to be held by any material bonds. No matter how vast the physical universe is, it is but a mere shadow of the vastness of God our Father. Yet we are told:

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Even though God is omnipresent, He proclaims “heaven is My throne.” How can a God, who is omnipresent in heaven and earth, tell us that heaven is HIS throne! Can this ‘heaven’ contain God? Can He ‘go to heaven’ and leave His troubles behind? No, God has no ‘troubles’, and heaven is nowhere near large enough to contain Him:

Psa 113:5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,
Psa 113:6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!

So where and what is this heaven? Do the scriptures tell us exactly where and what heaven is? Let us consider what scripture reveals about the heavens.

Earth is Always the Opposite of Heaven

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

Seven times, we are told where God dwells:

God dwells on high

Psa 113:5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high.

God Dwells In Heaven

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? [The scriptures answer this question.]

Psa 113:5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,
Psa 113:6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!

God Dwells In Mount Zion

Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
Psa 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
Psa 132:15 I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread.
Psa 132:16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

God Dwells Between the Cherubim

2Sa 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

2Sa 7:2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.

1Ch 13:6 And David went up, and all Israel, to Baalah, [that is], to Kirjathjearim, which [belonged] to Judah, to bring up thence the ark of God the LORD, that dwelleth between the cherubims, whose name is called on it.

God’s throne is “in the midst of the Four Beasts and the Twenty-Four Elders”

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Who are those “kings and priests” who will “reign on earth?”

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

So the four beasts and the four and twenty elders are simply symbolic of the “overcomers”, the “manchild”, “kings and priests” who will reign with Christ on earth.

This is all by their own admission. All we need do is believe God’s Word!:

Rev 5:9 And they [The four beasts and the four and twenty elders] sung a new song, saying, Thou [the slain lamb] art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Where God Rests

Isa 18:4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
Psa 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

God Dwells In His People

Deu 32:9 For the LORD’S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and be their God.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

‘Heaven’ is not a geographical location but the realm of the spirit of life. Heaven is in the hearts and minds of the people of God. Heaven is being in Jesus Christ, because being in Christ is to be in the Father. That is what and where heaven is!

Christ Is ‘Jacob’s Ladder’ and the ‘Door to Heaven’

Gen 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
Gen 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Who does Christ tell us this ladder with angels represents?

Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Gen 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
Gen 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

Indeed Christ is the only way to the Father.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also [and “be seated with Him in heaven” (Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him).
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father [and is ‘seated in heaven’]; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me [in heaven]? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father [in heaven], and the Father in me [in heaven]: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

This information is a terrible disappointment to “the natural man”. “The natural man” is expecting a physical heaven with all of its physical amenities, which “the natural man” maintains are both physical and yet spiritual. The “natural man” will retort, “Everything is just spiritual to you.” Thus, he demonstrates his disdain for “the things of the spirit” and his preference for the physical world.

However, for all who have been granted the privilege to see and understand “the things of the spirit” this is the most exciting revelation in God’s Word – that He will take up permanent residence in the hearts and minds of His saints!

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

God is now dwelling in His elect. It will yet require a millennium and a lake of fire.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling [fig] from the fig tree.

In the end this glorious Truth will be realized by all men of all time:

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

So… as the Great God of the OCEAN does indeed dwell in His fish, and His fish dwell in Him, and He dwells with all His fish, nonetheless, the OCEAN [God’s dwelling place– the heavens] is TRILLIONS of times larger and grander and mightier than the fish in which He ALSO DWELLS.

M___ wrote
Hi Mike, I pray all is well with you and your family. Had a question I have been thinking about that I am having trouble reconciling – as always any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated. I understand these scriptures:  “it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body…(not a spiritual natural body)” “flesh and blood (or bone) can’t inherit the kingdom of God…” “what is born of the spirit is spirit, what is born of the flesh is flesh…” “.. corruption must put on incorruption…” “The things seen are made from things unseen (spiritual realm)”… etc,… So, Jesus took on different forms with a specific purpose for each form after His resurrection (i. e. doubting Thomas needed to see and place his fingers in the hole so Jesus manifested that way).  What is seen (natural) is made from what is unseen (spiritual). My question is since the actual body of Jesus was missing after the resurrection (He has gone ahead to Galilee the angel said), and since I was always taught and not given much thought to it till very recently that it was a bodily resurrection, yet flesh/ blood/ bone can’t inherit the kingdom, I am having trouble reconciling the “body missing” – bodily resurrection with the incorruptible spiritual resurrection.  In John Carpenter’s book Evidence that demands a Verdict and More than a Carpenter he goes to great lengths to “prove” that it was a bodily resurrection… I think this contributes to the confusion and assumptions of the “church” teaching regarding spiritual matters – why they teach we will have a spiritual, physical body (different form) as they see Jesus’ body gone and how he seems to manifests physically, sometimes unrecognizable… it fits with the idol of not letting go of natural, physical world/ kingsdom… Hope my question makes sense… Blessings, M____

Hi M____,
Your question makes perfect sense, but I believe that you answer your own question. Insisting upon having a physical body…

“contributes to the confusion and assumptions of the “church” teaching regarding spiritual matters – why they teach we will have a spiritual, physical body (different form) as they see Jesus’ body gone and how he seems to manifest physically, sometimes unrecognizable… it fits with the idol of not letting go of the natural, physical world/ kingdom…”

Asking about the whereabouts of Christ’s physical body after the resurrection is like asking where was His physical body while he was talking to Mary as “the gardener,” the two men on the road to Emmaus, as a “only a stranger in Jerusalem” and finally as a stranger who “none of them durst ask who He was because they knew He was Jesus” by the sea of Galilee.

Joh 21:12  Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

What became of Christ’s physical body which the disciples recognized is about as important as the other physical bodies in which He manifested Himself. Why is no one asking about what became of the ‘gardener’s’ body or the body of the ‘stranger in Jerusalem,’ or the body of the man by the sea of Galilee?
Here is a scripture which will put this all in perspective if God has given you eyes to see the things of the spirit:

Psa 102:25  Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26  They shall perish , but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psa 102:27  But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
Psa 102:28  The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.  

Those who read this website regularly know that ‘heaven’ and ‘earth’ are both within each of us. Read the papers on this site What And Where Is Heaven? and What And Where Is The Bottomless Pit ?
David tells us that our heavens and our earth will perish and “thou shalt change them.” Christ changed His physical body at least 4 times that we know of. Where any of those four now are is totally immaterial and of no consequence to the fact that He is now a “changed” spiritual body. Here is the same statement made by King David, but now put into a New Testament spiritual context and quoted by Christ’s apostles:

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [ must] put on immortality.

“We shall all be changed” certainly includes Christ. His physical body was “changed’ into spirit; into a spiritual body “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and He was changed.”
 Now here is the same message again in Old Testament words quoted in the New Testament:

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail

And finally Peter, too, puts this all in its spiritual context:

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11  [ Seeing] then [ that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [ of persons] ought ye to be in [ all] holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness [ within each of us].
2Pe 3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

All who read this site know what fire is in God’s Word. Christ came to baptize us all with fire:

Luk 12:49  I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Mat 3:11  I [ John the baptist] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

If Christ “came to send fire on the earth” then where is that ‘fire?’ We all want to put negative scriptures off on the Pharisees or some other hapless group. We fail to realize that we all have had our time as Pharisees and as the children of disobedience even as others:

Eph 2:2  Wherein in time past ye [ you and me] walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The whole “historical orthodox Christian” world declares that God’s elect have never been the children of His wrath. I will let them take that up with the apostle Paul who declares the ” we all… were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
So the ‘fire’ of Christ’s words is even now burning out the wood, hay and stubble and even the dross in each of His elect. As such we are told that the things of the true heavens must be cleansed with better sacrifices than the blood of calves and goats:

Heb 9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves [ you and me] with better sacrifices than these.

And so our heavens and our earth must pass away with a great noise and melt with fervent heat as Peter puts it. It is all within each of us and it is not given to but very few to see that flesh and blood truly cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
They are all aware of 1Co 15:50-51…

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

… but they cannot receive it. I believe that you can and do see that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. I believe that you can believe the angels when they told Mary “He is not here He is risen,” and I believe that you see that “we shall all be changed.”
 “All” certainly includes Christ’s physical body. Our bodies, just as His was, will “be changed… in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye:”

1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Mike

D____ wrote:

My wife and I have started studying the scriptures and have come across a stumbling block.

In gen. 1:3 it speaks about “light” to separate night from day yet in verse 1:4 it speaks of “lights” again separating day and night, and this time it mentions the greater light to govern the day and lesser to govern the night.

What is the light mentioned in verse 3?

P. s. looked up Strong’s numbers and they are different and even reviewed various commentaries yet no conclusive answer.  It has left us with more questions than answers.

Thanks, D____

Good morning D____,

Thank you for your question.

You ask:

“In Gen. 1:3 it speaks about “light” to separate night from day, yet in verse 14 it speaks of “lights” again separating day and night and this time it mentions the greater light to govern the day, and lesser to govern the night. What is the light mentioned in verse 3?”

Here is that whole section of Genesis one dealing with when light first come to the earth:

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters .
Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6  And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7  And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [ were] under the firmament from the waters which [ were] above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9  And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [ land] appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10  And God called the dry [ land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [ it was] good.
Gen 1:11  And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [ and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [ is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12  And the earth brought forth grass, [ and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [ was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [ it was] good.
Gen 1:13  And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [ he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [ it was] good.
Gen 1:19  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

One cannot read the first two verses of Genesis without dealing with the unscriptural doctrine call ‘the gap theory.” The gap theory maintains that there were actually two creations many ages apart. The first creation was a world occupied only by dinosaurs and plants and perhaps creeping things and all the things in the sea, but there were no humans in that first creation. Gap theorists maintain that dinosaurs could not have co- existed with men, that it would have been impossible for God to have created Eve and had Adam to name all the animals all in one “evening and morning.”

To all such reasonings the scriptures ask, “do you also maintain that God cannot make seed to Abraham of stones?” But let’s just cut to the chase and ask the big question. If one insists on being able to scientifically grasp how God could have made all the beasts, including Adam and Eve, and have had Adam to name all the creatures on earth in one day, then why in the world do you believe that a virgin brought forth a child???

You say you believe that because the Bible says that is what happened? You say you believe that because God has given you faith to believe that which is scientifically unprovable? Then why do you not also believe that “in six days the Lord created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them?”

I cannot deal with the gap theory in this e- mail. I have written on that in several other letters which you can read on iswasandwillbe. com/ Just type the words ‘gap theory’ into the home page and you will find about nine different entries on that subject which you can read.

So I will proceed in dealing with the truth of Exo 20:11:

Exo 20:11  For [ in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [ is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If you read those letters you will find that the word ‘was’ in verse two is a sufficient translation of the Hebrew word ‘hayah.’  God is simply being so kind as to give us the details of how He went about His creation of “the heavens and the earth.”

What He is so kind to reveal to us is that He first created darkness and then “called light out of darkness” on this earth.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness : I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
2Co 4:6  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

For all who have been given eyes to see and ears to hear the word ‘earth’ is actually a revelation of how God is working with mankind who is “out of the ground… dust.”

Jer 22:29  O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

So the wording of Genesis does not deny that God Himself is light first. He actually tells us that he created light:

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

But we are also told that the light was not yet on “the face of the deep.” ‘The face of the deep’ is a parable of the spiritual sin and spiritual darkness into which we are born, both physically in our mother’s womb and spiritually outside the physical womb. Contrary to all that Babylon teaches, mankind was not shapen in righteousness then fell into sin. Rather Adam was deliberately “marred in the hand of the Potter.” It was all by God’s design, and it is revealed to us in Genesis. “God created the heaven and the earth, but darkness was [ first] on the face of the deep,” and later “light shines out of darkness” upon the ‘earth.’

Psa 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psa 139:12  Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Psa 139:13  For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.
Psa 139:14  I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [ and] wonderfully made: marvellous [ are] thy works; and [ that] my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15  My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [ and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16  Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [ my members] were written, [ which] in continuance were fashioned, when [ as yet there was] none of them.

“The darkness and the light are both alike to thee.” So verses one and two are from God’s heavenly perspective while verse 1:4 is from mankind’s earthly perspective. It is no longer ‘the heavens’ but “the firmament of the heavens.” It is not just ‘light,’ it is now a “greater light and a lesser light.” In scriptural terms even the night has a certain amount of light that is reflected from the sun. It is just a “lesser light” which he calls night.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [ he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [ it was] good.

There are now “two great lights”, and we begin to distinguish right from wrong. But the creation is not yet complete, and the son of God has not yet been completed. All of this is in preparation of the manifestation of the son of God:

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

But this first Adam is but a type and a shadow of a later Adam, and all this talk of creation is the same. It “all happened and it is all written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the ages have come.”

Rom 8:20  For the creature was made [“in the Potter’s hand”] subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [ the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This statement is true for all of God’s Word. It is all for our adomonition, including the fact that the heavens and the earth were in place before God finished His work on this earth. It takes time for the light of heaven to penetrate the darkness that is on the face of the deep. When it finally does do so, there is still much work to be done as we become aware of a greater and a lesser light.

I hope this helps you to see more clearly what Christ meant when He told the Jews that His words were spirit. The spiritual application of God’s word is always primary. Whenever we allow the letter to precede the spiritual we are yet in darkness on that point:

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Your brother in Christ,

Mike