D____ wrote:
    Just a quick question, is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ? I know the apostles were converted at Pentecost. Are we converted when we receive the Holy Spirit? Do you have any articles pertaining to salvation and its process?

Hi D____,
Thank you for your question.

You ask:

“Is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ? I know the apostles were converted at Pentecost. Are we converted when we receive the Holy Spirit?”

That is right, the apostles did not even begin to become converted until they received the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost.
The apostle Paul tells us unequivocally the difference between being spiritually minded and being yet carnally minded:

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

We read these verses and think that on the day of Pentecost, everyone on whom the “cloven tongues of fire” rested was transformed at that moment from a carnal to a spiritual mind. But that is not the case at all. Conversion typically began within God’s elect at that point. Peter, as a type of all who were there that day, and as a type of all in Christ since that day, at that point began to overcome his carnal mind. Never again would he run away from Christ in order to save his own life. But the Adversary simply becomes more subtle in his manipulation of our carnal minds. While Peter never again deliberately denied his association with Christ, he did do so inadvertently when he separated himself from the Gentile converts in Antioch, after eating with them “before certain men came from James.”

Gal 2:12  For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

This was several years after Pentecost. It is obvious that conversion is an ongoing process that doesn’t even begin until after the holy spirit begins to open our eyes and ears to see that “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair…”

Act 2:16  But this [ the events surrounding the day of Pentecost] is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19  And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

The day of Pentecost typifies the beginning of God’s spirit opening our eyes to see God’s “wonders in heaven, and signs in the earth…” It is at the beginning of our conversion that we finally recognize that we are, of ourselves, totally blind; “the sun is turned into darkness” on the first day of the beginning of the process of conversion. These prophecies mean nothing until we come to see What and Where Is Heaven. Read the paper on iswasandwillbe. com by that title.
Understanding that conversion is a process, we should be able to understand why Christ chose a little child to make His point about who will and who will not come to be great in the kingdom of heaven. Look at what Christ told His apostles:

Mat 18:3 and said, Verily, I am saying to you, If you should not be turn ing and becom ing as little children, you may by no means be enter ing into the kingdom of the heavens. (CVL)

I have emboldened the ‘ing’ on all the words in that verse to demonstrate the fact that this thing called ‘conversion’ is an ongoing process which doesn’t even begin until we are “born again.’
Look at the context of that verse:

Mat 18:1 Now in that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who, consequently, is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?
Mat 18:2 And, calling a little child to Him, He stands it in their midst,
Mat 18:3 and said, “Verily, I am saying to you, If you should not be turn ing and becom ing as little children, you may by no means be enter ing into the kingdom of the heavens.”
Mat 18:4 Who, then, will be humbl ing himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.” (CVL)

Why did Christ call a child to him to demonstrate how one is being converted and entering the kingdom of heaven. Was he telling us that we should be naive and gullible and let every heresy that comes down the pike enter into our spiritual homes? No, that is not what Christ is saying at all. Christ wants us to be vigilant and diligent heresy hunters.

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
2Pe 3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

The reason Christ called a little child to Him was to demonstrate to His puffed up, carnal minded apostles, the humility and the teachable attitude of a child, not the naive or gullible attributes of a child:

Mat 18:4 Who, then, will be humbling himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.”

It is the humility and the ability to be taught that a little child characterizes in Christ’s statement.
The apostles were with Christ for three and one half years, had watched Christ, and had themselves, cast out demons and healed the sick, and yet the night of Christ’s apprehension by the Jews, Christ told Peter that Peter wasn’t even beginning to be converted yet:

Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33  And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luk 22:34  And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

Christ’s comments to his yet carnally minded apostles about “becoming as a little child” were made in the context of those carnal minded apostles arguing with each other over which of them would be the greatest in the kingdom:

Luk 9:46  Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
Luk 9:47  And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
Luk 9:48  And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

The three and one half years in which the apostles were with Christ, and saw what Christ was capable of doing, and yet did not have Christ in them, living His life of dying to the things of this world.

Joh 14:17  [ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [ Read the paper  on the trinity on iswasandwillbe. com]

 That three and one half years symbolizes all the years of our lives lived in Babylon and all the years we spend getting Babylon our of us. Here is how the spirit expresses this thought in the book of Revelation.

Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

“The woman” in scripture, is always the church, which brings forth Christ’s Christ, “a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:”

Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

But this “manchild who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron,” is separated from “the woman,” and is “caught up unto God, and to His throne.”

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heaven ly [ places] in Christ:
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus:

The word ‘places’ is in brackets because it is not in the Greek. We are to reckon ourselves as having died, been resurrected and now seated together with Christ, having ascended into the heavens. Not “heavenly places,” but “the heavenly things themselves.”

Heb 9:23  [ It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these [ the blood of bulls and goats]; but the heavenly things themselves [ those in Christ who also have Christ in them] with better sacrifices than these.

“The things in the heavens?” That is right. You and I are “the things in the heavens, ” and “the heavenly things themselves. You will not understand a word of any of these prophecies of Revelation, Ephesians, Hebrews, or any other verse of scripture, if you do not understand Where and What Is Heaven? As I suggested above, if you have not done so then be sure to read the paper by that title on iswasandwillbe. com.
Getting back to your question, the answer is, Yes indeed, we are “carnal… babes in Christ” for a symbolic three and one half years before we even begin to “die with Christ” to the things of this world and have Christ living “in us.” Having Christ in us means that we are with Him “in the heavens.” Paul makes this super- clear in the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, which we will cover below.
But first let’s notice what happens to the woman herself? Is she also “caught up to God and to His throne?” No, not at all. She is instead, taken into the wilderness. And it is there “in the wilderness, that the earth opens it mouth and swallows the flood which comes out of the mouth of the dragon. Apparently God loves the woman as well as her Child. But “the woman” is still in the wilderness. What else happens while we are in the wilderness?

Num 14:22  Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

“Tempted… these ten times… in the wilderness” is the same as “three and one half years in the wilderness” simply because that is what happens “in the wilderness.” We have accepted Christ’s sacrifice, have put the blood of His sacrifice on our door posts and mantle, we are coming out of Egypt, we have even been baptized in the Red Sea, and we have witnessed all the miracles that were necessary to get us to this point, but we are “yet carnal… babes in Christ.”
That is what Christ told Peter and all of His apostles after three and one half years of casting out demons, healing the sick, hearing his parables and having them explained to them in private.

Mar 9:32  But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Luk 9:45  But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

That is also the condition of the woman who brings forth the manchild, but is not caught up to God and to His throne. She has not yet begun to see with spiritual eyes or hear with spiritual ears.
The apostle Paul agrees with  both the story of the woman in Rev 12 and with Christ’s example of the little child in the gospels,  when he tells us that the church he raised up was “sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, came behind in no gift of the spirit, and yet did not have that spirit within them.”

1Co 1:1  Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
 
1Co 1:6  Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7  So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 

The church is just like the woman in the wilderness in Rev 12 with the moon under her feet, clothed with the sun, yet she was unworthy of being seated in heaven with her man- child son.  The church is just like the apostles who had Christ Himself in their midst and were, with Christ, themselves casting out demons and healing the sick, and yet what was the state of their heart? What was their spiritual condition?

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

So there it is in God’s word. We can heal the sick and cast out demons, and we are still only on the milk of the Word and not yet able to receive or be “spoken unto as unto spiritual.” That seems inconceivable to the natural minded Christian who considers physical blessings as a sign of spiritual maturity. Physical blessings, with never any trials, is rather a sign of a lack of spiritual growth simply because of this one basic Truth of God’s Word:

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12  Teaching [ Greek, chastening. Same Greek word, ‘paideuo,’ found in Heb 12:6] us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Here is that same message in Heb 12. This is more than just milk, and consequently it is more than most can receive:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son [ uihos] whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son [ uihos] is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The word ‘son’ is the Greek word ‘uihos,’ meaning a grown up son who is being prepared to receive his inheritance. There is another Greek word for an immature child who is not yet ready to receive an inheritance. That word is ‘nepios.’ Here are a couple of verses which have this word in them. We saw this first verse above, where Paul was talking to the “sanctified in Christ, called to be saints, come behind in no gift… carnal… babes in Christ” Corinthians. Here is where Paul is forced to point out the hypocrisy of new born babes in Christ.

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes [ nepios] in Christ.

Gal 4:1  Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child [ Greek, nepios], differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2  But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

It is amazing how few sermons are preached on Galatians three and four. And of those which are preached on these chapters, it is few indeed which notice that the heir is always a nepios,  a carnal babe in Christ, still under the elements of this world, looking for and receiving physical healing, physical casting out of oppressing spirits and demons. The heir is a saint who is sanctified in Christ Jesus, but who is “yet a carnal… babe in Christ.” Here is Paul, telling us just that:

Gal 4:3  Even so we, when we were children [ Greek, nepios], were in bondage under the elements of the world: [ the law, 1Ti 1:9. Read The Law of Moses Versus The Law of The Spirit on iswasandwillbe. com]
Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son [ uihos], made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons [ Greek, uihothesia, grown son, heir].

So let me ask again, why did Christ use “a little child” to demonstrate who would be in the kingdom? Of course Christ wanted us to see the humble and teachable attitude of ‘a little child,’ but that very characteristic also teaches us that we must also grow out of being “a little child” under a schoolmaster, into a grown up child prepared to receive an inheritance from the Father. ” We were children [ nepios] in bondage under the elements of the world… that we might receive the adoption of sons [ uihothesia].
It now should be obvious that we are all “carnal babes in Christ” before we become mature sons. In other words we are all the “woman in the wilderness” before we become “a man child who rules all nations with a rod of iron.” 
That is what Christ meant when He told the Adversary:

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of th e mouth of God.

So let us quit reading God’s Word as if only part of it had any personal application. Here is how we are to approach every word in the entirety of God’s Word, the Bible.

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

We do not keep only the good parts of God’s Word, we are the negative part before we become the good part. “The time is at hand… keep those things which are written therein.”
This is repeated at the end of this book along with a very sobering warning:

Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Here is the sobering warning to any who presume that any part of the sayings of the prophecy of this book does not personally apply:

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So maybe we all need to “keep [ all] the sayings of the prophecy of this book” and not take away or add to these sayings.

Your question still remains:
“Is it possible to have the holy spirit and be a babe in Christ?

The direct answer is, no, it is not possible to be carnally minded and spiritually minded at the same time. But it is possible to begin to “grow in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and to be humbled by our carnal mind while we still have “dominion over sin,” in an overall sense. This is what Paul meant when he made these statements:

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [ this] one thing [ I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [ Greek, being perfected], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16  Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

So the answer is that we cannot have the holy spirit and still be carnally minded, and let our flesh hold its dominion over our lives. But we can struggle with the carnal mind and the principalities and powers of the heavens, while being under the dominion of the holy spirit.
The only question left that will logically be asked at this point is how can we tell whether we have passed from the carnal mind to the mind of the spirit? Can we tell by how much spiritual knowledge one possesses? No, that is not a Biblical litmus test. Here is the one litmus test which the scripture gives, and admonishes us to use:

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John repeats this “passing from death unto life” in his epistle”

1Jn 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

So according to these verses, “loving our brothers” is the litmus test of whether we really have God’s spirit abiding in us. “He that loves not his brother abides in death.” It is, according to Christ, entirely possible to know many spiritual truths and do many wonderful works, and still be just as carnal as the day is long:

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Our many good works are not a synonym for the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Neither does the performance of good works for others equate to loving our brothers, as surprising as that may sound. How can I make such a statement? If doing good to others is not love for that person, then what, pray tell is? Here is the only thing which God accepts as being true love of your fellow man, and it is not necessarily a matter of accommodating your brother at all. In fact it is very often the exact opposite of accommodating your brother and your true love for your brother just might cause you to be hated of your brother and be hated of all men. Here is how we know that we have passed from death unto life. This is true love of your brothers. This is “the love of God.”

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

How do we know that we love our brothers? “When we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.”
Again, I ask, how do we know we love our brothers? Is it love of our brothers, if we fail to point out heresies and blatant lies against the Word of God? Are we showing love for our brothers when we allow every heretical doctrine conceivable into our spiritual house, rather than rebuking the unfruitful works of darkness and doctrinal lies? Is love a synonym for unity at all costs? Is the ecumenical mantra of “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” a doctrine of love? What say the scriptures?

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And here are God’s commandments to keep us conscious of what is the true love of God. Here are God’s commandments which alone will keep the 200,000,000 false doctrines of Babylon within us from completely blotting out the light of the Sun:

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Again, how do we “love one another?” What is “the love of God.” I must repeat:

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Tit 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Christ and Joseph, and every man of God down through all the generations of mankind, have demonstrated that if we remain faithful to “the doctrine of Christ,” we will indeed “be hated of all men.” But as many wise men have also observed, ‘It is better to be separated by the Truth than to be united in a lie.’

Gen 49:26  The blessings of thy [ Joseph’s] father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I hope this has helped you to see that you cannot be a carnal babe in Christ and also have the holy spirit living its life of love within you. But I also hope you can see that conversion is a life- long process that did not happen at one day in the past and is no longer going on. We will be “dying daily” till the day we die.

1Co 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Joh 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.

I will close with this very encouraging word:

2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [ is], there [ is] liberty.
2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [ even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Stay in your Bible. The more you come to see who is Christ, the more like Him you will become.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike