A Pentecostal Spirit

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Hi P____,
Thanks also for bringing this to my attention.

A forum such as that one requires constant attention if one is serious about taking “heed… to all the flock over which God has made you overseers…”

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

But to be honest, I see a wolf in sheep’s clothing here. If I am proven wrong, I will apologize to you. But I wish you would ask this gentleman if he has been baptized with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. I think I hear the voice of J. Preston Eby here instead of the voice of the true shepherd. Just PM him with that question. If I am right, he will be glad to tell you that he has just such a spirit. If I am wrong, then I apologize for being mistaken about what spirit I thought was behind this post.
I think you know that I have pointed out on several occasions that the six doctrines mentioned in Heb 6 are all classified as “milk of the word.”

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [ be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk [ is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [ even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

“Not laying again the foundation of… eonian judgment” is saying that we are to get beyond the doctrine of universal salvation. You will see very little on this subject in my writings. We deal with it only in as much as new babes need it. Our whole focus is on fulfilling the commission given to the two witnesses and laid out in Ezekiel 2 and 3. These words ‘Are, Were and Will Be’ the commission of God’s elect in every generation since Christ. It was the commission of the prophets before Christ, but we now know that all of that was simply for the benefit of God’s elect who have existed only since Christ:

Heb 11:39 And these all [ Old Testament faithful], having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The “better thing” is not for the Old Testament faithful. The “better thing” is only for us. Now lest you think I am extrapolating too much from this verse, put this plain statement from here in Hebrews together with this verse from 1 Peter:

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the [ Old testament] prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

This “us” and this “you” includes the elect who were alive at the time of the writing of these letters as well as any who were elect since that time right down to today. You might think that this is an elementary point, but there is a reason why I make this ‘elementary point.’ While many do not like it, the truth is that God has established offices within His church:

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [ divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is [ the Greek has the article ‘the ‘ right here before the word ‘Christ’] Christ.

So there are different gifts and administrations within “the Christ” which is His Body.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

Not every one is given the same gift or administration:

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

No, of course not. Not all have the same functions in the body. But the body has but one mind, and the body speaks with one mouth, and the body has but one spirit! Now one of the functions of being in the body is to serve as a sort of immune system. Here is the scripture which deals with that function:

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Now, I do not know this man from Adam. But I can see what he has written, and I do not hear the voice of my shepherd. I am very well acquainted with this “kingdom” mindset. And believe me when I tell you that those who generally refer to themselves as “kingdom and sonship” are not on the same page with the doctrine of Christ. Just look at this quote from one of his posts:

“I see so much of our effort as portrayed by our words as just more of the dead religious mind set thinking.”

If he were referring to the ‘kingdom- sonship- J. Preston Eby- Ray Prinzing et. al. groups I would certainly add an ‘Amen’. But he is not referring to just them.

“I have been viewing the happenings on this forum for a few days.”

I am sorry, but I am dismayed at the warm reception given to a total stranger who comes into such a forum like Moses coming down from the mountain, or should I say “the back side of the mountain,” to straighten out the saints. He takes it upon himself to tell everyone there that they need to quit frequenting forums. The very fact that he is so well received without question proves that he is right about those who are on the forum. But that was not a ‘kingdom- sonship’ forum. It is moderated enough to keep those who disrespect its members out of the forum. A forum is good for those who need it. I’m not saying that he has nothing to offer once he humbles himself, but all I see is a superiority complex springing from a “baptism in the Holy Ghost” experience. If I am wrong, I will apologize. But I wish you would PM him and ask him if he has been baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I dare say this unscriptural Pentecostal doctrine is the ‘back side of the mountain’ to which he so frequently refers without giving a scriptural reference. Look at his statement:

“The Kingdom must come forth within first and foremost and this is the truth for this hour.”

This is the spirit I refer to when I mention in my letters that there are those who see Christ as an ‘Is’ Christ only. These “kingdom- sonship” people don’t even want to acknowledge that the aions come to a consummation. If asked pointedly, they will admit that 1 Corinthians does say that the aions will end. But they never mention the consummation unless they are forced to address that issue. Christ is a ‘here and now Christ only’ to these people. If you are reading the Revelation Commentary, you will see that I emphasize the primary position which ‘IS’ is given when Christ tells us that He Is, Was and Will Be. But I never ignore the fact that there is a ‘Was’ and a ‘Will Be’ facet to the character of Christ. Anything less is “another Jesus whom we have not preached..” And that is what I hear in this e- mail from this man.

“God’s purpose for this age is to take out a people for His name and it will be within this little flock that He will appear. These are the first fruits of a coming great harvest.”
… and…
“He will come and be coming quietly within the hearts of those that have no desire but for His appearing.”

This is all “kingdom- sonship” jargon. Their doctrine is that there will be a generation here at the end of the age which will be classified as overcomers. This in effect denies that when John said “the time is at hand” that the overcomers were being incorporated into the kingdom from the day of Pentecost forward.
I hope that I have not offended you. It is the last thing in the world that I want to do. But this is a Pharisaical spirit if I have ever seen it. This guy is glad that he is not as one of these lowly forum frequenters.
I do not frequent forums either. But for those who do, it is where they are in Christ.
Put what he believes God has shown Him up against the scriptures:

“For fourteen months I have looked for and measured the change I see in those God brings to the forums. Because of this today I believe the greatest change will be found in those that leave or have left to seek God alone or with their families and loved ones)”

Contrast this advice with this verse of God’s Word:

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

We will all be forced to stand alone at some time, but this is not something we should be seeking. Christ’s body is not composed of ‘Lone Ranger’ “members of His body.” Christ’s body works together as a body. This is where the change will come. Iron cannot sharpen iron if it is alone. It is good to spend time in Tarsus. But even there, we would be interpreting dreams and helping those around us as Joseph helped the butler and the baker. “Families and loved ones,” yes. “Alone,” never.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is [ the] Christ.

If you decide to PM him, I would love to know what he says about being baptized with the Holy Ghost. I am anxious to apologize if I need to. I really do hate to have to disagree with you. But I do not think this man has eyes to see or ears to hear. Let me know if you discover that I am wrong.



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