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Those Who Know Christ Have Seen Him and His Father

Posted December 12, 2011


Hi J____,

This verse is one of those inspired verses that show Paul's speech is of "demonstration of the Spirit and power", not enticing speech of old man with his fables, visions of God in heaven but in " hidden wisdom" in the mature...

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among [Greek: En - in] them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, [1Ti 6:16] which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

This is hidden to the 'Many' who CANNOT or has not seen God..who seeing, see NOT..

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall NOT perceive:

NO MAN while in the flesh has seen or can see God, except those Christ himself comes into, whose heart is being purified because of his presence, the few chosen.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall SEE God.

Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Those 'few' are inclusive of the apostle Paul himself, which, as far as I know, there is no document stating Paul physically met Jesus Christ. To "see" God or 'approach the light' are spiritual words which after his 'Damascus' experience, Paul could say he has seen Jesus Christ.

1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not SEEN Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

YES, Paul has seen the Lord because we are told only "angels" can or have seen the Lord, the true messengers of the Lord in this great mystery:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, SEEN of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

PAUL is received as an angel of God the same way any man will be that follows Paul as he follows Christ:

Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an ANGEL OF GOD, even as Christ Jesus.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

NO MAN can see God, or even dare approach that light, while living in the flesh. EXCEPT that natural man be BORN AGAIN no one can see LIFE until the Wrath of God is past in their lives.

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst NOT see my face: for there shall NO MAN see me, and live.
 
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE; yet all things are possible, through the resurrection..
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God. (where " the unapproachable light" dwells; where "life" is.)

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; [..All in first Adam..] but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The "no man" are all kept in that darkness, and CANNOT see having not the spiritual eyes needed for vision. It's not just they have not seen or would not see, it's that they CANNOT see. Our old man is given a visual organ that CANNOT SEE spiritual things until now, kept in darkness and and cannot approach the light, though he lies to the multitude that he CAN see - believe it not!

Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a FALSE VISION [.."I have seen God.."] and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath GIVEN them the spirit of slumber, EYES that they should NOT SEE, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

BUT the "great mystery of godliness" of how we CANNOT see, and yet at our appointed time can "see God", is only through the man that has seven eyes coming in us...Christ in us!

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a LAMB as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven EYES, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Of our own selves, we cannot see, but through Christ the Lamb with the seven eyes, we see, howbeit all in earnest.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the MYSTERY of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, SEEN of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"No man can see" but "seen of angels" is a great mystery, which is possible only by...

Col 1:27 To whom God would make KNOWN [..'make us to see'!] what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:

IT is through "Christ in you" that we are as angels, as Paul, as Stephen can see the Light.

Act 6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake....["Christ in you"]

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, ["CHRIST IN YOU"] looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Though we see the light partly, in earnest today..as "the natural man" is still not fully dead in us yet, "the angel" that is Christ is increasing day by day. Hence Peter and John can say:

1Pe 1:8 Whom having NOT seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Until we see him as He is in full light...
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth NOT yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, WHEN he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall SEE him as he is. (in FULL LIGHT).

No man can 'see' anymore than any 'natural man' can see and understand "God is Spirit".

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, ["see"...WHY??] because they are spiritually discerned.

In due time, all will be born again and will "see" God with his Clouds, those few that already are seeing God - the BODY of Christ - will eventually make the rest of "all men" see and know God, starting with those Gentiles that "want to see Jesus" today.

Joh 12:21 The same came therefore to PHILLIP, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would SEE Jesus.
How will this be accomplished? Through His Body.
Eph 3:9 And to make ALL [men] SEE what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that NOW unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known BY the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with CLOUDS; and EVERY eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and ALL kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Christ dwelling in the Father that no man has seen...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at ANY TIME, nor seen his shape.

It got me thinking that seeing Christ, and knowing him, is seeing the Father, as Christ told us:

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is IN the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
How?
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
 Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath SEEN ME hath seen the Father; ['unapproachable light'] how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

WE are all caused and dragged to approach that light at our appointed time..

Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and CAUSESTH TO APPROACH to unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

The practical application of how we see Christ and thus the Father today, is in approaching His ordinances, seeking His judgments and keeping His word.

Isa 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in APPROACHING to God. [...in positive terms by NOT forsaking His ordinances.]

Heb 12:14 Follow PEACE with all men, and holiness, without which NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD:

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;[..'cannot see God']

Thank you for the question. It's been part of my thought and meditation for the day.

Ayo Fabiyi


The "man" who "cannot approach" and 'has not seen Christ' is of course all of us when we first come to "believe in Him". This is a truth that is simply not seen by all who are yet in Babylon believing they know a Christ who will burn most of His creatures in hell fire. But even if we don't believe in an eternal hell, we still as Christ own apostles, who knew Christ in the flesh, do not, at first know Him in the spirit.

Just look at what we are told of the Jews who believed in Christ":

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Is this speaking only of those Jews at that time? We all know better than that:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

These Jews of John 8 who "believed on Him" are each of us, when we as converted Gentiles first come to know Christ". As Ayo said, simply claiming to know and believe in Christ, doesn't fool God. The only people who can "approach unto" that light in which Christ dwells are those in whom Christ really is dwelling and who are doing what Christ said to do. We cannot play games with God.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

That is the man who "has seen Christ" and has even seen Christ's Father:

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Philip, and all of Christ's disciples, at this point in their walk, are just like all of us at this time in our own walk. We are, at this stage in our walk, just like "those Jews which believed on" Christ in John 8: 31-41. We all, at first, want to believe in Christ, but the Truth of the matter is that His words "have no place in [us, Joh 8:37]. We at this time in our walk, "cannot hear [His] words" [Joh 8:43]. This is not something that was unique to those Jews of that time. This is the Biblical truth concerning all believers who, until this very day 'cannot hear His words' and of whom it is still true that 'His words have no place within them'.

Until we are granted to 'hear His words' and until 'His words do have a place within us' we are all still "carnal... babes in Christ". Jews or Gentiles.

When we 'hear Christ's words and claim that we believe in Him, but we 'do not the things He says', this is what will happen to us at our own appointed time:

Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

This is the "man" of whom Paul tells Timothy:

1Ti 6:16 Who [Christ, vrs 14] only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Philip admitted that he did not know the way, even after living with Christ for 3 and 1/2 years. Philip admitted that he had not yet seen the Father. Most Christians, to this day, cannot say that they have seen the Father, and many cannot even say they know who is the Truth, Christ. Yet, like all babies, they think of themselves as so very mature, as they tell you and me that we "cannot know the Truth".

The lesson in all of this is that we are all first, "carnal... babes in Christ", who cannot at first even begin to see spiritual matters, even though we think of ourselves as "those Jews which believed on Him". The scriptures reveal that this is just as true for new Gentile converts as it was for the new converts of Christ's day, who were the very multitudes crying out "crucify Him".

Let's take very very close note of this unheard of doctrine of "carnal... babes in Christ":

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

What is the Truth concerning these new Gentile converts who are "sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints"? This the Truth concerning those new Corinthian converts "those Jews which believed on Christ", and this is true of all who first come to Christ in every generation. This was true of Philip, Peter, John and all of Christ's disciples, when they first hear of Christ, and this is true of all of us, to this very day when we first hear of Christ:

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Here we are being told, just as clearly as it can be stated that any church which separates itself from the body of the living risen Christ, by labeling itself as an incorporated organization of men, with a name other than those who are in Christ and are granted to receive His Words, "are yet carnal... and walk as men".

We simply cannot label ourselves either Catholic or Protestant, nor any of the many thousands of divisions within those two main divisions, and yet deny that we are "yet carnal... and walk as men".

These are those of whom the apostle Paul tells us that they are "men" who cannot approach the light in which Christ dwells or see Him.

1Ti 6:16 Who [Christ - vs 14] only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no ["yet carnal"] man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Your brother who has seen both Christ and His Father.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.