Born Again-Gestation Mystery Solved!
Hi R____,R____ wrote:
Born Again From A to Z
I have long had the question in my mind as to when is the exact moment that we are considered born again. I have also long questioned....
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
...as to why Paul called these Corinthian believers (babes). A babe is one that is born.
I have also long considered, is there a gestation period when we are begotten but as yet unborn?
Is it possible to make a close comparison with physical begettal, gestation, then born, then as born babes that go on to maturity, with a spiritual process that duplicates the physical? And make these comparisons from scripture?
Let's start with begettal. When is one begotten and with what?
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
The above verse gives the answer. When we start our journey in accepting the word into our minds, this is Him begetting us, and this being His will and not ours. He impregnates us with His physical word. This is the first coming of Christ.
This begettal would mark the beginning of the process of gestation. Is there a spiritual gestation? Not long ago I learned that the number 10 in scripture signifies completion of the flesh. I also came to see that human gestation is 280 days. We have all heard that it takes nine months to make a baby. But God did not use the Pope's calendar. God's calendar as revealed in scripture has 28 day months. So this 280 day gestation equals 10, 28 day months. 10 months to complete the process of human gestation, or completion of the flesh.
When we as beasts suffer a deadly wound, we die in type by the sword of the word. We at this point experience a begettal of the word. We as the first beast are dying by this deadly blow from the word or impregnation of His word. We then go through a gestation period in the church and are (being) born, or (being) resurrected as a worst beast. This is how Paul can call the Corinthians (babes) on milk. This is the 40 day period of judgment represented by the time of Jesus' resurrection to ascension, 40 days in the wilderness, and also Jesus' 40 day fast. This was shadowed by the rain in Noah's day, when it rained forty days and nights and then raised the ark, which was full of beasts (the body of Christ). We are (now) being raised from the dead, (the church). Then we have a ten day period from ascension to fullness at Pentecost. The beast suffers another wound unto death, which we that are God's elect are in (now), dying daily until we die. This is marked by the receiving the spirit of His word. Another begettal of the spirit. Ten representing gestation (the completion (the end) of the flesh. We are born again babes, and at the same time in a gestation period toward fullness. Jesus is the firstborn that has totally passed from death unto life (born). We have only received in earnest. We are dying daily by the sword as beasts. We are born babes maturing into the image of Christ, and we are in a gestation period as yet unborn toward the full spiritual birth.
This is comparing spiritual with spiritual.
So in review the first begettal is the first coming. We are born of water. The water of the word. Raised from death in baptism. The first deadly wound. But the beast rises from this deadly wound. A type of being born. And becomes a babe on milk. But does not mature.
Then there is a begettal of the spirit. This is the second coming. That which is born of spirit is spirit. This is the final slaying of the beast that ends in death. Now the new man (Christ) is being resurrected (born). He now eats the meat of the word, and is past the milk.
Always in the past I have seen this doctrine as comparing spiritual with physical. Only now I see it as comparing spiritual with spiritual by the physical. And now I believe my understanding of this doctrine is far more complete than in the past.
I hope I have explained this sufficiently.
If there is anything that you do not agree with let me know. I know we have been over gestation before, but the Lord would not let my mind rest about this. I was never satisfied with how 1 Cor. 3:1 could call those not yet born, babes. They are born of water. God's elect are born of the spirit.
Your brother in the Christ,
R____
I just got off the phone with Coy Brock who has just done what you have done here. Coy has just come to see that when God told Adam, "Dying you shall die," God was not speaking about anything physical. It was all spiritual. Adam was created of the dust of the ground and was counting down the number of breaths he had before he ever ate of the tree. When God said "Dying you shall die, He was telling us that Adam began dying spiritually when he ate of the tree. Before that happened, Adam simply had not yet done the inevitable, that which flesh and blood is created as, to sin.
The life Adam had before he ate of the fruit of the tree was the same life of the woman in this verse of scripture:
1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.The whole message is missed unless we compare spiritual things with spiritual. That is the only way the holy spirit teaches.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
We cannot understand spiritual truths by comparing physical things with spiritual. We must see the physical things with spiritual eyes and compare that spiritual understanding with spiritual truths revealed in the New Testament or we will miss the point of scripture.
That is where what you have written here comes in. I think you know that if I saw anything wrong with this I would say so, but I don't. The invisible things really are understood by the things that are made, but it is simply not in us of ourselves to realize that the physical is only demonstrating the spiritual and that we must compare spiritual things with spiritual things if we are to have any hope of understanding what Christ meant by telling us plainly that "man must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
That too, cannot be understood if you take any part of that statement as being understood in the physical realm. There are many "words that proceed out of the mouth of God" which we do not live by physically, but there is not one word which "proceeds out of the mouth of God" which is not lived spiritually.
We may not commit physical adultery, but we are all guilty of spiritual adultery. We may not commit physical murder, but we are all spiritual murderers, etc. This is what we see when we compare spiritual things with spiritual.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:But adultery and murder are of the spirit, "in his heart," before it is ever accomplished physically.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Now God has shown you that if we are indeed true to this principle of comparing spiritual things with spiritual, we must think that way about the first as well as the second birth. As you put it at the very top of this e-mail, "born again from A to Z.," and I am sure that you are saying that it is spiritual from A to Z, both the first birth and the second birth are spiritual, both the gestation and the birth are spiritual.
I simply cannot see anything here contrary to the mind of Christ, and I thank you for sharing this with me once again. Please be sure to post this in the discussion section of the forum for the benefit of those who go there and I will have Steve to post this exchange on iswasandwillbe.com for all who might read it there.
This is the best thing I have ever read which gives spiritual expression to the fact that there is a physical gestation, and yet recognizes the fact that it is all spoken of in scripture from a spiritual perspective concerning both births.
The only thing I might change is that first line. Instead of 'Born again from A to Z" I might change that to 'Comparing Spiritual With Spiritual From A to Z..'
Your brother in Christ,
Mike